[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Voodoo Lady]

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Goon
  2	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Town Doctor
  3	Town Cop	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Tracker

?

Neither the Tracker nor the Cop can be in a format with the Doctor. Period.

And the Jailkeeper can't be with the Doctor either. It's a fuckin logic puzzle!! >:0(

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Cop	Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Goon
  2	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker	Vanilla Town
  3	Town 1-Shot Bulletproof	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Doctor

This is the best arrangement with the current five PRs, methinks. Not sure if replacing 1-Shot Bulletproof with a Backup would fix things.

Possibly horrible idea-- replace 1-Shot with a Watcher?

[Faraday]

Did you object to tracker and doctor and then suggest the much stronger watcher + doc is fine?

[Voodoo Lady]

Did you object to tracker and doctor and then suggest the much stronger watcher + doc is fine?

That's a good point. Hm.

Backup sounds fine. Although I'm not so sure we need a replacement for Bulletproof now that I think about it.

[Cheery Dog]

That's why we need to just take out the doctor as well.

[BBmolla]

Jailkeeper/Roleblocker is a stupid interaction and should be avoided.

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Ninja
  2	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Town Doctor
  3	Town Cop	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Tracker

Idk I'll fix it later

Are we certain Cop/Doc/Roleblocker is too townsided?

[chkflip]

??? Mafia

Mafia Roleblocking Bus Driver

(blocks both targets)

Mafia Janitor

Town Cop
Town Doctor
Town 1-shot bulletproof 1-shot lie detector
Town Vanilla x8

[ferretlover]

6354

What does the "Mafia Ninja" do?

[Zaicon]

Cannot be seen by Tracker, which admittedly makes the Tracker useless until the Ninja dies.

[ferretlover]

Because the scum would always kill with the ninja.

Okay, I get it.

That role is fucking OP though.

So the ninja cannot be tracked, watched, etc.?

[Cabd]

One shot ninja would be sufficient enough to put uncertainty into the trackers result of no visit.

[Voodoo Lady]

Doc and cop are the easiest roles to grok. Would rather keep them.

Jailkeeper/Roleblocker is a stupid interaction and should be avoided.

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Vanilla Townie	Mafia Ninja
  2	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman	Town 1-shot Bulletproof	Town Doctor
  3	Town Cop	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Tracker

Idk I'll fix it later

Are we certain Cop/Doc/Roleblocker is too townsided?

The problem with that was that when the Roleblocker died, if there was a cop, he could claim and have no problems.

It's also why I'm not so cool with each mafia space having a different PR.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Neither the Tracker nor the Cop can be in a format with the Doctor. Period.

And the Jailkeeper can't be with the Doctor either. It's a fuckin logic puzzle!! >:0(

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Cop	Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Goon
  2	Mafia Goon	Town Tracker	Vanilla Town
  3	Town 1-Shot Bulletproof	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Doctor

This is the best arrangement with the current five PRs, methinks. Not sure if replacing 1-Shot Bulletproof with a Backup would fix things.

Possibly horrible idea-- replace 1-Shot with a Watcher?

Both the MafiaRB-Cop-Doctor and Goon-Tracker-Doctor are imperfect but they're still better than 4 out of 6 of those set-ups (both Cop set-ups are clearly town-sided, 2 is clearly scum-sided and B is just dreadful).

[Guyett]

• 	A	B	C
  1	Tracker	Vanilla Townie	Godfather
  2	Mafia Roleblocker	Town Doctor	Town Cop
  3	Bulletproof townie	Mafia 1-Shot Strongman	Jailkeeper

Would that work?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

No. 1 and B are definitely scum-sided. 3 and A seem unfun and icky. 2 and C are okay but not great.

[Rob14]

A 1-shot or full bulletproof townie shouldn't be in this setup at all. We get enough problems with newbies trying gambits or lying as town without experience or knowing how to do so already. Do we want to start their first game by having the IC say "Ok, while SOMETIMES it's ok to lie as town...."

[Rob14]

How is 1 scum-sided CES? Tracker, 6 VTs, 2 goons is not scum-sided. It's 9p mountainous plus a town PR.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Tracker is just pretty weak as long as both scum are alive in a set-up with no actions besides the nightkill. I don't see one doing much more than getting nightkilled in most iterations of that set-up.

[Antihero]

So I just got finished running Scumhunter's Speed. Of the 6 times it was run, town only won 1 time.

Right now, this is the setup

3 Scum
5 Town

"Nightless", kind of
If there's a mislynch Day 1, scum kill one of their own. If town lynches correctly, scum get a standard NK night 1 and it becomes white flag.

I think the scum-sidedness of this setup comes from the even number of players on days 1 and 2. Because bussing is so harshly penalized in this setup, town pretty much have to have every townie on a scum wagon in order to lynch correctly.

My suggestion

3 Mafia
6 Townies

Standard nights and scum get a factional kill.
A Day 1 scum lynch will force scum to pick someone to be a bulletproof innocent child. This player must have been on the lynch wagon the previous day.
A Day 1 town lynch will force scum to kill one of their own for that night only.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

A 1-shot or full bulletproof townie shouldn't be in this setup at all. We get enough problems with newbies trying gambits or lying as town without experience or knowing how to do so already. Do we want to start their first game by having the IC say "Ok, while SOMETIMES it's ok to lie as town...."

I think this is very exaggerated by the bye. I certainly don't think it's worth mentioning in the absence of dueling set-ups like Tracker-Doc vs. Tracker-1-shotBP.

My current best attempt is probably the following:

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Role Cop	Town Back-up
  2	Vanilla Townie	Town Cop	Mafia Goon
  3	Mafia Goon	Town Odd-Night Bulletproof	Town Tracker

I like the Odd-Night Bulletproof more than 1-shot because it provides a similar level of protection while making it less likely that town will have to no-lynch; it also makes it easier to play around town fake claims, if that were to come up.

[Rob14]

I've starting running numbers on the current newbie setup. I'll release preliminary results on each potential sample setup once I have a sample size of at least 10 in that setup. Once I have a sample size of 10 in EACH setup, then I'll probably make a standalone thread that I keep updated regularly.

3:1-shot BP/Goon/Tracker

Sample Size: 11
Town Win Ratio: 3:11 (0.2727)

This is a really weird result, in my opinion, and is likely a result of low sample size.

[quadz08]

Statistics r gud

[Rob14]

Yeah, but there's not a large enough sample size yet to bother running a statistical test on my results to determine if any are unbalanced. Maybe in a half year.

[BBmolla]

A 1-shot or full bulletproof townie shouldn't be in this setup at all. We get enough problems with newbies trying gambits or lying as town without experience or knowing how to do so already. Do we want to start their first game by having the IC say "Ok, while SOMETIMES it's ok to lie as town...."

I think this is very exaggerated by the bye. I certainly don't think it's worth mentioning in the absence of dueling set-ups like Tracker-Doc vs. Tracker-1-shotBP.

My current best attempt is probably the following:

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Role Cop	Town Back-up
  2	Vanilla Townie	Town Cop	Mafia Goon
  3	Mafia Goon	Town Odd-Night Bulletproof	Town Tracker

I like the Odd-Night Bulletproof more than 1-shot because it provides a similar level of protection while making it less likely that town will have to no-lynch; it also makes it easier to play around town fake claims, if that were to come up.

I like it

[LlamaFluff]

Unless I hear otherwise then I will move this (which needs a name):

A 1-shot or full bulletproof townie shouldn't be in this setup at all. We get enough problems with newbies trying gambits or lying as town without experience or knowing how to do so already. Do we want to start their first game by having the IC say "Ok, while SOMETIMES it's ok to lie as town...."

I think this is very exaggerated by the bye. I certainly don't think it's worth mentioning in the absence of dueling set-ups like Tracker-Doc vs. Tracker-1-shotBP.

My current best attempt is probably the following:

• 	A	B	C
  1	Town Jailkeeper	Mafia Role Cop	Town Back-up
  2	Vanilla Townie	Town Cop	Mafia Goon
  3	Mafia Goon	Town Odd-Night Bulletproof	Town Tracker

I like the Odd-Night Bulletproof more than 1-shot because it provides a similar level of protection while making it less likely that town will have to no-lynch; it also makes it easier to play around town fake claims, if that were to come up.

And Perpetual Lylo to the open queue for trial runs soon and get wiki pages made for them this weekend.

[Cabd]

Llama can we get feedback on Vi's setup proposal?