KTaNE [game over!]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I was also thinking about this last night before drifting off, and I thought it was weird that VP would essentially PoE himself by blowing Andres up. IIRC VP was kind of in a comfortable position; not widely townread sure but also not widely scumread.

Even if VP had successfully gotten dwlee limmed after Strange, I don't think scum would've been that close to winning with both VP and Misty under a lot of suspicion.

That makes me think last scum probably has some decent associatives with flipped scum, which kind of loosely rules out Bell and Enchant.

[GuiltyLion]

Andante when you get back, can you explain how you went from dwlee is scum at the end of day 4 to VPB is scum at the beginning of day 5?

Spoiler:

VOTE: Dwlee

no. I TR nothing about Dwlee. Dwlee has only significantly changed their playstyle after pooky and I were like "dwlee has done 0 solving"

now dwlee is maf purposely angering me. whatever

--- end of day 4 with Strange limmed ---

VOTE: VP

Dwlee is town

lol wait until you can read last night's hood, I tried to get Andante to explain this several times and she wouldn't

it is my single biggest question mark with her, I truly don't understand how or why she evolved from SRing Dwlee to hard claiming a (fake) inno result on them overnight after Strange flipped town

[Andante]

and I'll tell you what I told you last night GL. I. Don't. Know

[Andante]

that was like 3 weeks ago IRL?? like a month?? couldn't tell you my thought process then

[Cat Scratch Fever]

like you haven't even given a single reason for me to be scum other than

"Pooky misread me therefore he's scum"

which could apply if I am always right on your alignment but that's not even true because the last game we played together we were T/T and I misread you as scum when you were town;

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88783

Who were you in this game?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

like if people just want me to stop whining, shut up and accept the lim and they'll play the game tomm after I'm dead - I'll gladly stop posting and leave you all to it.

My play throughout the entirety of this game does not come from scum!me and I am happy to explain any stance, any post, any sequence I have done to the best of my ability if I can remember what I was thinking at the time.

Do you remember how you went from dwlee scum on day 3-4ish to vp scum on day 5?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I need to be diffuser on even nights if I am one

This is a long shot but

do you happen to remember what you were thinking of fake claiming when you said this on day 1?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like you haven't even given a single reason for me to be scum other than

"Pooky misread me therefore he's scum"

which could apply if I am always right on your alignment but that's not even true because the last game we played together we were T/T and I misread you as scum when you were town;

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=88783

Who were you in this game?

stephen a smith

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Oh

It took me 8 game days but i finally understand fire's NBA analyst joke now

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if people just want me to stop whining, shut up and accept the lim and they'll play the game tomm after I'm dead - I'll gladly stop posting and leave you all to it.

My play throughout the entirety of this game does not come from scum!me and I am happy to explain any stance, any post, any sequence I have done to the best of my ability if I can remember what I was thinking at the time.

Do you remember how you went from dwlee scum on day 3-4ish to vp scum on day 5?

I thought dwlee was mafia because their play in twilight felt openwolfy as in I thought they pushed mala-town dead and they were about to openwolf blow me up for lulz.

I re-evaluated on them after mala flipped scum and they became more townie than VPB for me.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that dwlee would be initial pusher on mala-scum to bus her down if they would then go and POE themselves in a 3 pool to blow up Andres.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

You can not bother, it's 100% mafia make it in team and just pretend that they are town and state correct instructions.

HEAL: EVERYONE

Let's put scummy players in bomb team, so next night we could make lesser, but town one?

Enchant looks REALLY good from these posts now that we know what we know about Mistyx's role. Would enchant do this if he knows scum are trying to place four townies at the top?

Circling back to this but going through ISOs, i think enchant kind of looks bad through this heal analysis for posts like 1654

[Andante]

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Why, andante?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

in that game I pushed Malcolm. he flipped scum. I got shot night one but I was added to a PT where I could talk with living people

you can see that I scumread Bell and wanted them to kill him in the PT:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

[Andante]

So I need to look more at this when I have more time, but quickly skimming the ISO, yeah I do believe this is maf. like I was looking here, and I was like "I really have bad vibes from CSF" and like the ISO isn't great

HEAL: frogster
HEAL: Greeting
HEAL: catboi
HEAL: Andante

^ Like the whole idea of "scum wants to stay far away from the bomb, here's a bunch of early heals on all people who appear to be town, and I feel like that's a situation of scum knowing the town and thinking they're townier than they are, so it's pretty easy to later go "yeah I TRed them!!!" and also, it feels like an early attempt to throw all the big TRs in with the experts so that the next night scum can kill whoever... like, we all know stuff like this with the voting, you have to start whatever early, and once you have the votes on, it's just easy to ensure it goes through, like now I think only 2 people here are even healing, VC 7, and now, CSF wasn't healing anyone, yet I think was one of the first people in the entire game to go "here's a bunch of people to heal" mehhh I can see CSF as mafia

I strongly dislike dwlee's Andante push.

Andante feels townish here, and I also know she's kind of an easy mislim having fallen into the trap of tunneling her more than once recently. I think dwlee knows this too.

What specifically don't you like about Dwlee's push?

Felt opportunistic to me like someone pushing a known easy mislim

I gave 351 some major side eye

The reasoning given post hoc ("too many people townreading andante --> andante scum) is pretty meh. It's so early in the game, it feels weird to make a gamestate read like that when people's reads are subject to change easily

Also, what about Andante's play makes her town in your eyes?

Helped push the game out of the 12 pages of mech talk, feels similar to her other town games

^This feels like an interaction with a scum partner

I could vote either VP or fire atp

VOTE: Morning Tweet

VP I promise I'll skim through that game at some point tonight for ya,

main thing I'm just trying to see is if the style of asking a bunch of questions and posting random largely meaningless observations

(579 another one that pinged me much in the same vein) is fully in line with your town game, seems fire (slash maybe a couple others IIRC?) is vouching for that but just want to check it myself

I largely agree with this observation. I was kind of surprised that VP is second top poster when I opened up the activity overview, because I don't really remember their posts or recall their stances.

Keep us updated on the metadive

^and just casually "I could yeet VP" right... for distance


and whatever happened to this doc claim? now useless since CSF claimed it?? this is way too many protection roles, I think the claim is on VP's level of unbelievability

[Andante]

tldr: CSF is maf

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

While I was rereading last night, I noticed that both VP Baltar and The Praetorian made the same incorrect assumption about the setup.

They both thought that we could nominate the bomb

defuser

during the day.

Spoiler: VP Baltar

wait so we have to lim AND defuse a bomb???? For some reason (read: not reading closely)

I thought the day play was just picking who defused the bomb.

well even if they were mandatory somehow, we'd just intentionally give bad info if we decide we want to fail all bombs by default

oh like use them as a double elim?

Spoiler: The Praetorian

Hi I'm not reading the first 7 pages

nom me for defuser ty

HEAL: the praetorian

also VOTE: catboi

mafia chooses the defuser each night. town votes to nominate the experts. there is no fully functional townkill because even if experts choose to detonate, they are only playing scum's wifom game.

Oh lol

I thought the system was eliminate + nominate defusers

and experts

> Why would they think we could nominate defusers during the day?
A: Initially, there was this incorrectly written rule that was later corrected. Cephrir pointed it out here.

once the execution vote has been hammered and the day is over, twilight starts.

the needed number of players who at that moment have the most nominations will be the night's bomb defusers.

i think this rule is supposed to say experts at the end

<snipped for brevity>

My working theory is that someone on the scumteam read the incorrect rule and was under the assumption that we (the town collective) could nominate defusers during the day. Then, what probably went down in the Scum PT is that they spent the pregame discussing strategies around who they should nominate as the

defuser

during the day.

> Why is this important?

Because MafiaScum's favorite bat (aka Mistyx slot) also made the same mistake.

i understand it's prolly not decided but

are we trying to put town or scum in the

defuser's

seat

catboi had to correct her in 132.

> Is it possible that Morning Tweet/Misty is just town who also misunderstood the rules?

I think it's very unlikely.

- catboi very clearly stated in 35 that scum choose the defusers. MT's first post was after that ---> I think MT came into the game with this preconceived notion that town can nom defusers due to talk in the Scum PT, and her brain automatically filtered out anything that was contrary.

- At best, Morning Tweet was not closely reading the game, which in a vacuum I'd say is lightly scummy.

- Even if the setup is confusing and not every townie understood the entire setup right away, the opening VC makes it very clear that you cannot nominate defusers, only experts.

- MT/Misty ISOs are also just scummy even if you don't think anything I'm writing here makes a lick of sense .

Just for fun, I went through everyone who has flipped town to see if they also explicitly made the same mistake about the setup. None of them did (although some were inconclusive):

• Lukewarm/fireisredsir - 71 (end of first line)
  
• catboi - 21 and again in 35
  
• Frogsterking - somewhat inconclusive, although I'd argue that he also understood how the setup worked from 54
  
• Andresvmb - inconclusive, his first post came way after setup confusion was cleared up
  
• Greeting - very top of 85 (in the bolded text)
  
• StrangeMatter - 55
  
• I can also add Titus to this list now - 36

---

btw, Menalque's opening post was:

i have a plan where we dont let any1 defuse any bombs because defusing bombs is boring

pooky obviously scum

also I wanna be bomb defuser

I originally wrote some stuff here where I wanted to lim Misty then Mena. But now I don't care, both can go

I really don't think CSF!mafia is capable of making this post.

Her scum!game is kind of on the awkward side of things engagement wise[from reading her iso in pokemon][yes i said i didn't read it but i lied sue me]

[Cat Scratch Fever]

^

Like the whole idea of "scum wants to stay far away from the bomb, here's a bunch of early heals on all people who appear to be town

, and I feel like that's a situation of scum knowing the town and thinking they're townier than they are, so it's pretty easy to later go "yeah I TRed them!!!" and also, it feels like an early attempt to throw all the big TRs in with the experts so that the next night scum can kill whoever...

This is more of a function of the fact that I couldn't heal myself. I don't think I ever objected to being made an expert. I think I even explicitly asked to be an expert with Frogster and Greeting at some point on day 1.

like, we all know stuff like this with the voting, you have to start whatever early, and once you have the votes on, it's just easy to ensure it goes through, like now I think only 2 people here are even healing, VC 7, and now, CSF wasn't healing anyone,

yet I think was one of the first people in the entire game to go "here's a bunch of people to heal"

mehhh I can see CSF as mafia

This is definitely not true, but you'll have to scroll through early day 1 to believe me since I'm too lazy right now.

VCs 1.02 and 1.03 were like 15 pages apart.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also like she has no reason to actually CC Mena when she did because he was going to die regardless of his claim really.

Instant CC there is just kind of silly to do if you're the deepwolf - esp to try to 1v1 down Mena.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

and whatever happened to this doc claim? now useless since CSF claimed it?? this is way too many protection roles, I think the claim is on VP's level of unbelievability

we have 0 invests this game, why is 4 protects way too many? >_<

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also I kind of doubt she makes up that story about jailkeeping you on night four immediately after you claim VT

that's like incredibly creative for a protective role that doesn't exist.

[Andante]

hmmm ok right yeah, no it's not csf UNVOTE:

cause csf was the one like "I won't out targets" cause of my suspicious claim, and like yeah, ok I remember that. this is too confusing. I really don't think it's pooy, is the answer just enchant?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

also there's like no reason for scum!her to actually be asking me things?

she can just be like "oh i can't think of anything else i'll just vote for pooky cuz POE and put me at e-1 and enchant probably just hammers me" and she's almost all the way home

[Andante]

yeah.. it's not csf, we cleared GL... like, who all is even left for options then? me/enchant/dwlee? well scum is making me defuser tonight and probably just killing GL?

it's just enchant yeah? VOTE: Enchant

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I suck at reading Enchant