Mafiascum.net

Scumhunter is pig, Tragedy is Choas. First post.

TOWN
MagnaofIllusion
jasonT1981
Captain Corporal
------------------Willing to Execute anyone below this line.
vezokpiraka
Scumhunter
Zang
Quilford
implosion
Cosca
Tragedy
SCUM

Holy shit my reads are terrible this game. I have 0 townreads and a ton of scumreads.

- 3x jason (Cosca, Tragedy, Scumhunter)
- 2x SK (implosion, Quilford)
- 2x Tragedy (vezok, SK)
- Zang (Scumhunter)
- 2x Cosca (MoI, SK)
- Quilford (Zang)
- CC (vezok)
- Scumhunter (vezok)
- implosion (SK)



- 3x vezok (Cosca, Tragedy, SK)
- 4x Tragedy (Cosca, implosion, Quilford, MoI)
- 2x jason (Quilford, MoI)
- CC (Tragedy)
- 2x Quilford (Tragedy, SK)
- 2x Scumhunter (Zang, SK)
- Cosca (Zang)
- Zang (SK)



- 2x MoI (Cosca, Scumhunter)
- 3x Cosca/IceGuy (implosion, Tragedy, vezok)
- 3x jason (implosion, Zang, vezok)
- 2x Scumhunter/fatlikepig (implosion, vezok)
- Zang (Quilford)
- 3x SK (Tragedy, Scumhunter, Zang)
- CC (Zang)
- Tragedy (Zang)



- 5x CC (Cosca, implosion, Quilford, Scumhunter, SK)
- SK (Cosca)
- Scumhunter/fatlikepig (Quilford)
- 2x Cosca (Scumhunter, Quilford)
- Tragedy (Scumhunter)
- 2x vezok (Scumhunter, Zang)



- 5x Zang (Cosca, implosion, Tragedy, MoI, vezok)
- 4x Quilford (Cosca, implosion, Scumhunter, vezok)
- 7x implosion (Cosca, Tragedy, Quilford, Zang, Scumhunter, MoI, vezok)
- 5x MoI (implosion, Quilford, Zang, vezok, SK)
- 3x vezok (implosion, Quilford, MoI)
- SK (vezok)
- jason (SK)



- jason
- MoI (based off of most recent post w/ Executioners / Executionees list)
- CC's replacement



okay so I did something weird and assigned everyone a score: +2 for a town read, +1 for a leaning town read, -1 for a leaning scum read and -2 for a scum read

Disclaimer: this should only serve as a potentially slightly inaccurate tl;dr - most points (towniest) to least (scummiest)

implosion: 12 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
MagnaofIllusion: 10 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, Tragedy
Zang: 7 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
Vezokpiraka: 5 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
Quilford: 4 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, MoI
Captain Corporal: 2 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
SleepyKrew: -1 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, MoI
Scumhunter: -3 (6 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement, MoI, Tragedy
Cosca: -4 (7 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement
jasonT1981: -6 (9 reads) - missing CC's replacement
Tragedy: -7 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement

SleepyKrew wrote:TOWN
MagnaofIllusion
jasonT1981
Captain Corporal
------------------Willing to Execute anyone below this line.
vezokpiraka
Scumhunter
Zang
Quilford
implosion
Cosca
Tragedy
SCUM

Holy shit my reads are terrible this game. I have 0 townreads and a ton of scumreads.

Also wtf are these terrible reads. Tragedy is like the only one I agree with.

MoI, jason, and CC are all leaning town, not solid town. And yes, I know my reads are terrible right now.

EBWOP:



- 6x MoI (implosion, Quilford, Zang, vezok, SK, Tragedy)

MagnaofIllusion: 12 (8 reads) - missing jason, CC's replacement


PEdit: Bluh. I'll update that when I can be bothered.

Tragedy wrote:@Zang: Out of curiosity, what got you into thinking Scumhunter's partially leaning scum with a post of his reads? >:O

I think fatlikepig was scummy and I don't like that scumhunter thinks i'm scum for little reasoning as I've already said.

Quilford wrote:- Zang (Quilford)

You have me listed as null here but didn't you just say that I was scum?

I read you in ISO and I got a thoroughly nullish vibe.

That sounds really weak. I'll find some better reasoning for it soonish

Quilford, Tragedy is town. She is always mislynch fodder it seems. I'm very confident she's town really.

@MoI, of course I read the thread. I saw your explanation previously, I just think its bs. If you don't trust other people's scumhunting wouldn't that be even more reason to want to be elected executioner? The attitude is the I don't want to go against the consensus and take responsibility for it if I screw up. I really don't think that that is a town thought process from an experienced player whatsoever.

In fact, if I feel this day is getting out of hand and headed for another mislynch, I have strongly considered so much as saying "elect me executioner and if I am wrong, auto-kill me during this night phase/tomorrow". That is the type of leadership, willingness to trust your reads, and putting yourself out there, that good town players want to do. Winners want the ball in their court. Especially one who says they don't trust other people's scumhunting, which is a weak cop out really.

As for why the game mechanics must heavily favor the scum from here on out. I highly suspect that night 1 was the only night that town will get to elect someone to kill during the night. The previous game suggests that scum probably have a way to just override the night execution for at least one night, and that their night phase votes count for 2, ya? I'd suspect a 4 scum setup here with strong town prs or a 3 scum setup with weak town prs. The n1 kill was a ML (town had control over who held the lynch power). Oh speaking of the night kill, why didn't you ask for a claim on who you were going to execute? That is incredibly anti-town and I'm shocked that you didn't and that this hasn't been mentioned.

As for your reasoning for backing off SK, I don't buy it either. Do you have some self-awareness? People essentially have worshipped you from the start of the game. I'm not saying its warranted or unwarranted not having played with you before, but don't you realize it wouldn't be an easy thing to just "push back" at you in thread in this game.

Zang, your posts say a whole lot of nothing though, even those big walls that you seem to have gotten town cred for. I'll admit most of my scum read on you is gut and the tone of your posts makes me go mehhhhhhh quite a bit, but it is possible I'm just not familiar enough with your play style. I may see if I can dig up a few of your games to see how you play a bit better.

Why was fatlikepig scummy? And of course you don't "like" that i suspect you, no one wants to be suspected. Why do you think that that play is indicative of me being scum though?

Quil, not understanding your points system at all. Don't think its all that helpful either. You'd be better served using your time questioning people more in my opinion.

Edit: Not that you haven't been questioning people Quil, I just feel like the points thing is a waste of time XD.

I will be compiling a case on TownPRhunter later today.

Cosca wrote:So you're considering us scummy, even your top suspect, simply because we didn't immediately read you as town or leaning town, completely ignoring we already pointed out a later post from you mitigated our point? That actually makes you more of a suspect than everything else you've posted so far - you seem to be trying to get rid of that one guy who doesn't consider you conftown because you're MoI.

Pure scum move right here. You specifically cropped part of my quote in responding in a manner to make it look like the only reason I suspected you was suspecting me.

!

Here’s the original quote with the part you can see he cropped –

Ok, I’ve managed to give you enough room to distance yourself from this ridiculous stance as necessary. And you’ve clung to it so strongly despite being told by multiple sources it makes no sense.

Into the scum-pool with this slot.

Iceguy’s “Hey why should we agree on the Night-executioner” “Oh wait, nevermind” two step put you on my radar Day 1. This combined with your stance that Vezok is scummy qualifies you for my ‘Approved Execution’ list.

Note how he carefully cropped out all the parts where I discussed why I had suspicions of Iceguy (aka the slot) from Day 1 and other elements of their play today. There clearly are other reasons why I have my suspicions past “OMGUS”.

Scumtastic in all degrees Cosca. I’m very happy if Cosca is the Execution today.

In regards to you suspecting me …. feel free to suspect me all you want. I will, however, label play in regards to suspicions of me as scummy when it is warranted. And in this case it clearly is.

You attempted to state that I was ‘scummy’ for active lurking less then 48 hours into the day. That’s a ludicrous assertion.

Your statements that I’m Confirmed Town (I’m not since Havingfitz wasn’t scum) or that you are the only voice calling me suspect (Scumhunter also clearly is) don’t match with reality and look to only be there to bolster your argument.

Cosca wrote:Vezok coasted his way to the mis-execution. Every other scum apparently at least pretended to scumhunt, Vezok didn't post anything of value.

Vezok posted his opinions on who was scum. In fact he provided more input than other slots …. look at Scumhunter / Fatlikepig’s Day 1 scum suspicions – it amounted to Codfish only.

Given that he wanted to end the Day much earlier than he did but held it open so replacements could be gathered I don’t see his end of day posts as scummy at all.

– what is your opinion on Scumhunter’s slot? That slot posted even less content than Vezok Day1. Which seems to be the standard by which you were judging Vezok yet you specifically gave them a “No read”. Does Day 1 not impact your read at all?

--

Scumhunter wrote:@MoI, of course I read the thread. I saw your explanation previously, I just think its bs. If you don't trust other people's scumhunting wouldn't that be even more reason to want to be elected executioner? The attitude is the I don't want to go against the consensus and take responsibility for it if I screw up. I really don't think that that is a town thought process from an experienced player whatsoever.

You really don’t understand Mafia if this is your stance. Mafia is a Team game, especially in the set-up that we are playing in. Getting Town concensus is very important for Town as a whole. Regardless of my feelings about my scum-hunting in regards to everyone else’s it is not going to help Town for me to come in yelling “Hey, I know more than you make me Executioner or ELSE!!!!!!”.

I’m playing to my Wincon to work with Town.

– what would be my scum motivation for specifically NOT asking to be Executioner? I’d like to hear what you think is a credible reason you think I as scum wouldn’t want to capitalize on the credibility and sway you claim I have to take control of the Town.

Scumhunter wrote:In fact, if I feel this day is getting out of hand and headed for another mislynch, I have strongly considered so much as saying "elect me executioner and if I am wrong, auto-kill me during this night phase/tomorrow". That is the type of leadership, willingness to trust your reads, and putting yourself out there, that good town players want to do. Winners want the ball in their court. Especially one who says they don't trust other people's scumhunting, which is a weak cop out really.

And that’s exactly the kind of mentality I would expect from Scum.

On one hand you are preaching fear about how Town has to worry desperately over this Execution because a Mislynch dooms Town.

And then in the next breath you say “I’ll lead Town and if I’m wrong you can auto-execute me”. Wouldn’t scum then be in control if you were wrong? So why would scum who could control the Night Execution under your theory kill you at Night? You've basically made an empty commitment here given your other claimed beliefs.

Those two statements don’t mesh and border on Cognitive Dissonance.

I also think the rhetoric you’ve included here about “Winners want the ball” is pretty much meaningless fluffery that I would expect to hear on a sports talk radio station.

Scumhunter wrote:Oh speaking of the night kill, why didn't you ask for a claim on who you were going to execute? That is incredibly anti-town and I'm shocked that you didn't and that this hasn't been mentioned.

The Night Execution in my hands was used just like a regular Vig. Normally Vigs don’t call out their kills asking for claims. Don’t like how I used it? Feel free but I don’t really care. I see your use of ‘incredibly anti-town’ and ‘shocked’ as indications that you are over-selling an ‘emotional’ response here.

Also you clearly aren’t reading the thread since Tragedy (who you’ve been buddying up to I note) pretty much made the same comments at the start of day.

Scumhunter wrote:As for your reasoning for backing off SK, I don't buy it either. Do you have some self-awareness? People essentially have worshipped you from the start of the game. I'm not saying its warranted or unwarranted not having played with you before, but don't you realize it wouldn't be an easy thing to just "push back" at you in thread in this game.

1. I don’t care if you don’t buy it. Are you saying you would have killed the claimed Power Role (unspecified) who also claimed to be involved in the Paper mechanic?
2. You seem to have no problem giving your opinions on my play. Do you feel you are that much more bold / brave than the rest of the game?

Do I still need to write my Scumhunter case or can I just point at that^?

MagnaofIllusion wrote:
Pure scum move right here. You specifically cropped part of my quote in responding in a manner to make it look like the only reason I suspected you was suspecting me.

Everyone please take note of this

!

Where is the problem? We responded to a part of your post and quoted that part. That's standard practice. For instance, you yourself cropped that part of our post:

Cosca wrote:
(Also, in general distancing oneself from a previous stance without cause is viewed as backpedaling and scummy. This allowed you to set up a no-win scenario where you could've called us scummy, no matter what.)

Can we consider this as a scum claim from you?

There is simply no scum motivation in cropping a quote when everybody can read the original post a few posts before that.

Note how he carefully cropped out all the parts where I discussed why I had suspicions of Iceguy (aka the slot) from Day 1 and other elements of their play today. There clearly are other reasons why I have my suspicions past “OMGUS”.

Except those suspicions only cropped up when you made your post. You NEVER before called us out on the N1 voting discussion after I noted I made a mistake, or on the Vezok read. This only became important after we suspected you.

Scumtastic in all degrees Cosca. I’m very happy if Cosca is the Execution today.

Of course you'd be all too happy to execute somebody who sees you as what you are.

In regards to you suspecting me …. feel free to suspect me all you want. I will, however, label play in regards to suspicions of me as scummy when it is warranted. And in this case it clearly is.

Our play is not scummy. You are constructing a case out of thin air.

Your statements that I’m Confirmed Town (I’m not since Havingfitz wasn’t scum) or that you are the only voice calling me suspect (Scumhunter also clearly is) don’t match with reality and look to only be there to bolster your argument.

You are not confirmed town, it's just that most people see you as town due to your play style. Also, you're right with regard to Scumhunter also being suspicious of you; I don't see how this changes our point, since you also suspect him (though your case on him isn't actually completely made up like ours is).

Vezok posted his opinions on who was scum. In fact he provided more input than other slots …. look at Scumhunter / Fatlikepig’s Day 1 scum suspicions – it amounted to Codfish only.

Given that he wanted to end the Day much earlier than he did but held it open so replacements could be gathered I don’t see his end of day posts as scummy at all.

Question

– what is your opinion on Scumhunter’s slot? That slot posted even less content than Vezok Day1. Which seems to be the standard by which you were judging Vezok yet you specifically gave them a “No read”. Does Day 1 not impact your read at all?

Vezok's "scum opinions" consisted of three scum reads without justification, one of which was codfish. He kept on posting in the game thread to give the appearance of content, and in other threads on the site.

fatlikepig, on the other hand, site-flaked and was replaced.

Don't you see a difference here?

Quilford, please change our read of MoI to "leaning scum".

Scumhunter read coming up.

Scumhunter read:

I can't follow his Tragedy defense. We still miss a full set of reads from her, and her previous reads are just following the majority town opinion. This does make him suspicious.

On the other hand, his SK read screams town. Scum would, in general, just hammer him and don't consider the "annoying townie" option. Also, his MoI attack is based on flimsy arguments, but attacking him doesn't seem like something scum would do. Scum would concentrate on the easy targets, such as SK, not on MoI.

Leaning town.

Scumhunter wrote:
Why was fatlikepig scummy?

Did you actually read his ISO?

Pig was actually leaning town to me.

Cosca, no actually I didn't read fatlikepig's iso. I read through the entire thread and noted his opinions before proceeding to iso every slot but my own. Of course I was influenced by the fact that I know I'm town when reading fat's posts. If there is something that he did that rubs you the wrong way I will try my best to explain what I think he was getting at.

SK, you are trying to make EVERYONE look scummy. Do you have any townreads whatsoever. It seems you are comfortable with lynching like 80% of the ppl in game. WTF is the deal with that? How SK has not hanged yet is beyond me. I really should go through the thread and see how many passive-aggressive attacks you have made towards people that are backhanded comments with no substance. I want your reasoning for your reads on each player in the game, please.

Tragedy is obvious town. Don't trust me today, fine, but please take my word on that. She shouldn't hang today, nor tomorrow, nor ever. I'll settle on not today for now.
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=16898: This is an example of her scum play. She struggles giving simple reads and using logic whatsoever as scum.
Compare that to any one of her completed town games (or this one ffs) and it should be pretty freaking clear she's town. She's trying to find scum, which in and of itself is a massive town tell from her. Also, I have seen her lynched in a bajillion games regardless of alignment really.

MoI, you stating you didn't want to be executioner could be for a number of reasons. Scum wouldn't want to be the executioner and put themselves at the forefront of the game too early on. You would have to explain your reasons for executing someone. Also, you stating you didn't want to be executioner is a way to buddy the town if you are scum. It's not like you were fervently saying "oh please no, stop coordinating your votes for me as night executioner". Your sentiment was an empty one meant to put people at ease and say oh well MoI isn't trying to run the show lets trust that he will get scum for us. . MoI executioner...BOOM, dead town pr.

^^ This is of what be going on if you are in fact scum. I'm not saying you are necessarily scum but you are in the subset of 4 people [Jason, SK, Zang, MoI] that I would literally eat my hat if at least 2 of you aren't scum. I'm very very confident there are 2 scum in there at least.

Oh and I obviously was reading the thread. I did see that Tragedy had said the same thing. I'm saying it again to reinforce that it is a valid point and that you need to be suspected a lot more than you currently are. You can try to play the "Scumhunter is an uninformed replacement" card, but just letting you know its bullshit. I spent several hours reading the game meticulously so try another scum-appeal to drown out those voices you don't like to hear why don't you

I'm not pushing for a MoI execution today, mainly because its possible he is town and will be useful as the game goes on (and also I doubt anyone but me would have the balls to make that execution today if given the power). That being said I think we would all be wise to strongly consider the fact that MoI is scum. There are far better execution options [Jason, SK, Zang] for today though.

What do you think of SK? I'm in favor of seeing a full claim from him. I still think he's obv scum. What are your opinions of him right now MoI?

edit: the fact that MoI could be scum

Must... Get to... Computer... Must... Expose... Scum...

Which one of your 8 scum reads SK?

I only have 7 tyvm.
And no, you haven't been reading the thread.

LoL only 7, my bad.

I eagerly await your case on me since I assume I am the "townprhunter" you refer to. I'm still very strongly in favor of you claiming your full role. If you are trying to insinuate I'm "role fishing" you are already outted as a power role, seems to me you are trying to put off your actual claim as long as possible. I still don't buy your claim and I don't see why town has let you off the hook so easily here.

While you are working on your case on me, would you mind giving in-depth reads on everyone else too?
I know I have said you are obv scum and said it many times, but if you are town please prove me wrong. I am stubborn, but I am willing to listen. I mean you have to admit having so many scum reads is fishy as all hell. Plus your claim was the exact type of general PR claim that scum just love to do. Start producing some solid reads with reasoning and my opinion could change on you. Key word being could. I still very much think you are scum.