↑Selkies wrote:Disagree. I downgrade town reads in these long-ass day ones pretty frequently.
Well that's you. Do you want a medal or something?
How about noticing that selkies is towny for having progressions in her reads, while you have stale reads, based ono bad reasoning axplained poorly.
If you can explain to me why having fluid reads in inherently townie and why sticking to early, firm town reads is scummy, sure.
How do you need help with that bit? How are you viewed as a good player?
Basicly, its very easy to scum when all you need is to make one read then refer back to it. While in fact townies are unsure and alert and changes their reads as the game progresses and more information becomes avaible.
If I have to read OMGUS one more time, I'll break something.
Yo dawg I herd you liek OMGUS so I OMGUS your OMGUS while you OMGUS my OMGUS
*Icebox runs
Seriously, I think it's a good time for me to look over Sven/Majiffy/Rach again.
What?
Guess who has Rach as null, Sven as L.Scum, and Majiffy as Majiffy?
←This guy.
So I'm gonna read up again.
-G
thought we had a town block in the workings.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:17 am
by Jennifer
Okay. I just went through Majiffy's ISO.
My reads differ from his. For example, he didn't like Selkies for the same posts that made me like Selkies. And I disagree with him over the Varsoon wagon and current Rach wagon.
But, I like that he's given reads and is willing to engage on them (even though done in a scary, aggressive way).
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:25 am
by Majiffy
↑Svenskt Stål wrote:How do you need help with that bit? How are you viewed as a good player?
Basicly, its very easy to scum when all you need is to make one read then refer back to it. While in fact townies are unsure and alert and changes their reads as the game progresses and more information becomes avaible.
This isn't an argument for why I should change my playstyle, this is an argument for why you read them as they are.
Problem is, I'm
always
pretty solid in my reads. In fact, I'm often stickier with my reads as town than I am as scum. And it has served me quite well.
So, putting aside your preconceived notions of how town and scum act, why is being fluid in your reads so townie?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:29 am
by Svenskt Stål
You just answered the post where your current question is answered.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:31 am
by Majiffy
Saying "because that's what townies are" is not a valid argument in the face of evidence that not all townies play alike.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:32 am
by Majiffy
Basically, what I'm saying is that stickiness or fluidity in reads are not a great indicator of alignment, and that you need to look beyond that to discern if someone is town or not.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:34 am
by Svenskt Stål
And basicly what I am saying is that your read on rach reads like scum fucking up and sounding horrible.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:36 am
by Majiffy
That's interesting. You want to explain why?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:37 am
by Selkies
↑Majiffy wrote:Basically, what I'm saying is that stickiness or fluidity in reads are not a great indicator of alignment, and that you need to look beyond that to discern if someone is town or not.
It's an indicator but it's relative to the player IME.
It wasn't difficult at all to get you talking about mafia theory instead of this game.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:38 am
by Majiffy
What would you like to talk about in regards to the game?
I feel like I've covered everything of any value thus far.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:40 am
by Svenskt Stål
↑Majiffy wrote:That's interesting. You want to explain why?
I have been doing it for the last pages. Any reason why you keep reflecting?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:43 am
by Majiffy
Because I haven't seen any actual reasons yet.
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:47 am
by Svenskt Stål
Well I have stated what I feel. I have nothing else to add.
↑Does Bo Know wrote:I was going to say this earlier but I wanted to see more of what Selkies thought of Varsoon's vote on him before saying this: Selkies didn't see the actual reason Varsoon saw Selkies as scum, and decided to tear apart everything else multiple times. He thought he was missing something from Varsoon's small case, but I read it and noticed the reason on the first read. I don't see why Selkies didn't think to look back.
Is there a particular reason why you're not quoting this or...?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:20 pm
by Selkies
↑Svenskt Stål wrote:Right now I would go Majiffy before rach.
Dont think they are both scum by the way majiffy is approaching rach.
Maybee we should ease of rach as wagoning her gives us nothing except a lynch.
VOTE MAJIFFY
We're trying to decide which of Rach or Majiffy to vote. What made you switch?
Posted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:33 pm
by Icebox
FUCK YEAH I FINISHED THIS POST.
These packets consists of analysis and responding to what people say in specific posts. Not really easy to navigate: At the very least, check your own bag because I kind of have questions mixed in there.
I think Rach is a good information lynch. Probably scum. If not, plenty to analyze as far as the wagon goes and who voted, unvoted, moved vote and tried to move wagon.
Sven
Spoiler:
Sven:
#86 by Sven. Interesting or other such words are a bit scummy, but he quoted someone.
#99 Isn't really what scum say.
#198: Doesn't answer a few questions, that should be answered.
#211: Sven is being me right then when dealing with extremely active posters. Sometimes you need to cut people off to do your own brand of scum hunting. Self-conscious question. Uh, town do this kinda thing as much as scum, Null. Summarizes two players playstyles. Which lends credence to his view that his reasoning of thinking Sven is town, makes sense. Sorta fence sitting here though.
#213: I agree.
#220: I buy response 1, but he ignores 2 and 3. It would not have hurt just to say, "well, I play with meta in mind." But he chose not to. Don't understand response to 3.
#221: Cutting too many people off. You may ignore Orc, if life gets in the way of feasibly being able to deal with his constant questioning, which is simply difficult to answer. But Bo, you should pay attention to.
#222 Points out he is serious in ignoring the both of them.
#225: Clearly shows he is not actually ignoring them. *points out obvious*
#230: False dilemma. More importantly, consistency in reads and suspicion and starting to bring these suspicious things UP.
#237: Scum don't say this.
#256: Still sensitive to suspicion I think this fits in line with his early defensiveness against Selkie, I think he might just actually not like being questioned and pressured.
#288: Town point hunting: or actually towning it up.
#371: Scum don't say this. They break expectations, more methodically.
#377: Reading my mind. Which is a town tell.
#413: It will be a headache for town too. It greatly depends on how successful the early day is as far as discerning town.
#440: More fucking mind reading.
#467: Knows what is up.
DoesBoKnow.
Spoiler:
Bo:
#104 fails to mention why Selkies is prob town, but puts him there. Points out possibly scummy things people do, on almost everyone.
#108 is odd, like he's trying to remember his own position.
#109 last line proving the point that he's literally remembering what his position is... Are scum this obvious? Hmm.
#113 "doesn't feel right to me"
#120 does not answer my question, "In case she could be scum and use it against us"
#126: hmm. Interpreted for me. Rebuffs Rach.
#130: Eager to answer questions about himself. Probably need to take him up on this to get more information on this. Might be townie to do, but on the other hand, it might just be him trying to gain town points so as not to be the lynch today.
#134: Middle line is probably bullshit.
#157: ... Intermediating, possibly a town one. Reminds me of town Mozamis. Hmm. Will think on this post. Still pushing for that Rach wagon though.
#209: Scumdar alert. Paints everyone as scummy. Moves against Varsoon condescending.
#216: More intermediating, more translation, more summarization.
#228: Anti-town.
#270: Back pedals, probably moving to Rach. More summarization, more interpreting for others.
#307: *sigh*
#319: *sigh*
#Starting to think Bo misrepped Selkie.
#341: Checked wiki: You lurk usually as scum. So it's quite relevant. Why the preemptive defensiveness? Why did you make this post?
#545: Misreps and strawmans everyone, no one was giving you shit for not posting. They were reacting to what you've said and done.
#587: Woo boy. I called the Rach move. Hmm. A lot of interpreting, a lot of making sense of things. This post might be for him as much as it is for us.
#589: His reads align with mine, which is probably a good pro-town thing that usually happens when two town think the same way. On the other hand, there has been stuff that I find irrepairably worrying. Putting at lean town for these posts. Will never reach probably town.
#625: Disagree. It is the rare scum partner who defends his scum partner, but Majiffy is that kind of guy. That said, still think Majiffy might be town.
#630: Oho.
Rach continuation:
Spoiler:
Rach continuation:
#127: A difference in thought process Can't tell if scummy or not. Already starting the "i look scummy as town thing" which is legitimate. She has had a lot of trouble with this. The trick is to figure out if her moves have been scummy to be actual scum or just RachMarie being RachMarie.
#142: I read newbie 1318: She tried to paint people as scummy quite a bit. Had reads by post 160. Also cheerlead there, asked for activity, called Omgus when put to L-2 in the game LOL. Gave town points to people that defended her, gave town points to towny people who posted town-like near her wagon. LOL. Tried to shift attention LOL. Something to think on.
#355: What.
#359: *Shiver*
#373: Really should have reads by now.
#402: I am sad: but understand. Varsoon does not need leeway.
#423: Good vote, bad post. Dangerous vote because it is a lurker vote which is what scum do. Good vote because D_O is suspicious. He is not really good at being scum. He's okay(take it as a personal challenge if you're scum again D_O!)
#434: Fair, I think you need to just learn to live with the fact you're never going to be able to respond to everything and just pick and choose what to respond to. Pick the right, things to respond to as either alignment and people will let it pass.
#450: "Can we please get back to the game?" More cheerleading. Shhh, we know what to do.
#483: I'm just sad at this point. I don't think Rach could keep up in this game as either alignment, perhaps that is why she is still doing this even though people are pointing out it is scummy.
#485: More cheerleading. You need to break this habit if you flip scum. This is seriously lining up with your scum meta.
#541: Actual content. Makes sense.
#546: 1. They read you scummy as town, true. But you also play scummy as scum. Which is equally true. 2. I like replacing it too. 3. You need to look for town patterns too. You're not. They're easier to pick up on. Good question to Bo.549
#549: I don't understand this or the analysis thereof. Oh it was a meta analysis or something.
#588: Worried this might be true. But then you scum painted Sven. Which was scummy.
#What bugs me the most right now is how easy this is. You keep getting voted and no one seems to mind. The upside is, that only my town-leans, minus D_O who jumped off has voted you.
Selkies.
Spoiler:
#132: Says what Bo is doing (giving reads early) is scummy.Does not pursue it.
#140: Wants to excuse Rach. I think this leads to a trend of Orc Hydra defending her. He quickly makes a case against us in #141
#143 makes a case against Varsoon which would be odd, if it wasn't obvious that he is trying to pressure everyone for information.
#161 last line is strange, she thinks there is scum on the wagon, but not elaborate.
#207: Blow fishing it up. Trying to make himself seem larger than he is. Intimidated~ Trying to push Varsoon down. Normal personality type. But that has absolutely nothing to do with the game.
#227: Worthless follow up questions are worthless.
#232: What is this post. Is there some sort of file for RVS questions and out of RVS questions? Did I miss the meeting?
#255: Talking this out. Is protown~
#265: I imagine she eventually explained this unvote.I hope she did. -f.
#268: Lol. I agree, very scummy of yourself to do that. -f. Townie post.
#269: Yeah his case was bad, but you responded the wrong way to it.
#275: Wifom: But town and scum do this. Answered this question in #332
#290: The "You don't know me!" post.
#Selkies: Orc is way to involved in his posts, arguments and reads to be scum this game.
#301: "I'm town this game" Only town me does this! Maybe it is true for -f as well.
#317: (checks file) RVS question.
#328: When did you withdraw it? The case on us I mean.
#334: Uncalled for. Majiffy is reading the thread. Still, You're proving the point you're too emotionally involved in your arguments and mafia. BUT, this helps get a read on you, so that helps.
#342: Can you explain what you mean by this? Do you mean you think Varsoon laid a trap which lead to your current position at the time of this post?
#366: Reasonable vote.
#400: a possible town slip.
#475: This is par for the course and you should do this Varsoon.
D_O.
Spoiler:
#169: Sheepy. ... Weird.... Possibly scummy.
#552: *Watches with anticipation*
Jennifer.
Spoiler:
#187: Does not know Rach, Rach holds her RVS vote till she has someone she thinks is scum. Very townie initial post. Tries to make insightful questions, might not actually be insightful, but it seems like she is trying to make them insightful. Flip side: trying to get a real feel for the game.
#645: Goes with the flow, but just not the person with the titles flow. Reasonable vote is reasonable. Forecasted vote. Voted. Timing of voting should be noted. While she has not "read" Majiffy, she might have timed the vote.
Varsoon.
Spoiler:
#200: Reading the whole thing. Read the whole thing. A lot of theory here. Points given, points taken away.
His response to post 141 is fence sitting.
His response to 143 makes me bitter, because I reaction tested when I hopped into the old game, by stating I was town as town. Still voted me. "I’m normally normal in games. Also, I agree, there is at least one scum between me, Icebox, and you. PoE lets me know it’s not me, and your posts let me know it’s likely you." Or, it is none of us. False trillemas are dumb.
His response to post 146: Please don't lynch or NK me, I really like this game. Lol, okay, I promise not to vote you until lylo. Because you shouldn't live that long.
Response to 148 and 169: Standard play for him not to like D_O Play.
Response to Jennifer's Post: I made myself way too easy of a target though, and I think that's what you're acknowledging here. <- Varsoon does this as town, it makes him vulnerable, but honesty wins over experienced players as long as you're honest with few inconsistencies. Jennifer estimation is correct.
Last closing bit: Does not really indicate we are town in post, but reads us as town, over Selkies. Probably just trying to gather information, but not really a fan of the town read on Bo either or the town Rach read: WHICH CAME FROM NO WHERE.
#299: Do you like being town or scum more, Varsoon?
#353: "Anyway, kept reading this and Bo's antagonism of Sven seems off." Hmm, more analysis. *gives a town point*
#470: "but the guy who introduced me to the game told me that scum posts pics, links, and gifs, so I'll keep from doing that." 0/1 so far with this scum tell. Furthermore, that was a quick link between D_O and Selkies, I think we've talked about this already. Don't associate without something better than average back it up with.
#510: Orc, obviously shakes people down wrong. But it provides evidence anyway. He is just probably lynched a lot for it. Do not like this vote by Varsoon.
#529: Good vote. Does this vote as town. Town vote.
Majiffy.
Spoiler:
#208: Do not lynch Majiffy. Listen to song if disagree. Then come to conclusion that he is town this game.
#223: Read us as town! I am town! Good job Majiffy!
#250: True on Selkies. Varsoon wagon? Yeah, I can see why you wouldn't like it. I don't really think a scum has voted Varsoon at the point at which those 3 votes were on him.
#272 Noticing everything that is wrong with Selkie's posts and actions, which is...Good scum hunting. so far, not thinking Selkies is scum though.
#291: Sven, easy mislynch? Maybe. I don't know.
#417: Pretty sure we could not. D_O is where he belongs.
#Will finish this last bit and Iso him. But, I think he slightly town.
Summary:
Town:
Sven
Selkie
Varsoon
Townish:
Jennifer
Majiffy
Null:
D_O
Bo. I'll put him in the town or scum pile after flip.
Scum:
Rach.
Dat OMGUS.
Are scum this obvious? Hmm.