Micro 164: Epic Mafia (Game Over)

[Jake from State Farm]

Really? So fuzzy it takes BB to says something like that for you to look elsewhere...

sigh.

Is there at least a reason that you picked Jake over others. I can see where he is scummy but I also think it's opportunistic because others had been voting him... He's also on V/LA so you're not going to get him to talk anytime soon by voting him

VOTE: catboi

im off for tonight

@ rmp - why did you move your vote from fuzzy to catboi when it seemed you were questioning fuzzy's recent interest in catboi?

[Rob14]

Ok, Jake is painfully town lately. I'm going to stop second-guessing myself because of Pirate and Fuzzy.

now I am on a computer, here are the things why I voted rob

1. the counter wagon comment, I don't see any reason why town would want to start a counter wagon, nor why they make that comment.
2. his reason for voting rmp was terrible, I didn't see anything wrong with rmp's reaction to being run up
3. the "lurk much" was a joke, but the "suspiciously absent: was absolutely not a joke. The game had not been open for 24 hours yet so there is no need to call out my activity, plus if anyone knows my meta they know I almost always purposely wait until a few pages go by before I post my "sup"
4. post 125 - why me = fry me
5. post 108 says BBMolla could be rmp's partner but in post 125 says he doesn't speculate on partners, but he already had.

theWel rest of his posts just feel like he is trying to act town, so I peg him as a scum PR, probably stalker. He wants to make himself look at town as possible, but he has yet to make an argument that I like.

1. It was RVS. I was goofing around. A counter-wagon was necessary, though, because the initial wagon was based on a whole lot of nothing whereas catboi scummed it up by saying that the vig should claim. Combine that with the fact that catboi is new (likely to break if pressured early), and he was the best target for early pressure. Of course, he then site-flaked, so that died down. His successor will determine the majority of my read on the slot, but right now it's lean scum due to the early crap.

2. Rmp's reaction sucked. Things like this:

Also this is a nice bandwagon. I'm definitely a good lynch. I'm so scummy.

Made him look awful early on. He over-reacted, plain and simple. He's been giving me more town vibes lately and I have a bit of a conflicted read on the slot at the moment, but there was definitely more than enough reason to pressure him following that reaction.

3. The "suspiciously absent" and the "lurk much" were in the post. In fact, they were next to each other. If one is a joke, the other is logically a joke. How could I be serious about you lurking and joking about you lurking in two consecutive sentences? The entire thing was meant as a joke, which is why I put "/sarcasm" after it in order to emphasize that, since someone prior to that had specifically stated they were bad at reading sarcasm, IIRC. And I didn't know your meta, although that isn't really relevant.

4. If you're going to vote me, I'm going to ask for reasons to that vote. That's not scummy in the slightest. If you have some contention with my actions in the game, I want the opportunity to explain why I did what I did if you have actual reasons behind a vote, so of course I'm going to ask you why your vote is where it is. "Why me = fry me" is the worst scum-tell I've ever heard of (and this game is the first I've heard of it, although it's come up two times here already).

5. Yeah, I did this. I try not to speculate partners (and have said so in past games as town AND scum several times - I can post those if necessary), but I slip up on that a bit from time to time when I'm writing a reads list directly from notes. To explain a bit, I DO speculate partners in my own notes. I do NOT speculate partners in thread and try not to form reads that heavily rely on another live player's read. As far as I'm concerned, forming dependent reads is the fastest way to get nowhere, as if you're wrong on the first read that you formed, you'll be wrong on all your other reads. It forces you to literally start from scratch. I prefer to form independent reads and then write a mini decision-tree in my notes, such as "If X is scum, Y is possible scum due to post ####". Then I make note of the connections and can revisit if X flips scum, but easily disregard if X flips town. Make sense?

And what does "feels like he is trying to act town" mean, exactly? Please explain, preferably with examples.

[rmpeacoc]

I moved my vote because I was willing to look more at lurkers. I still don't like Fuzzy's actions but I'm willing to give him a chance more than I am rob.

Also I wasn't questioning his interest in catboi, I was questioning his interest in you (JAKE) because it seemed opportunistic since people had already been looking at you.

[Piratecat]

Can someone explain me the Mollie/Piratecat Deal? Why are you poking someone on skype to tell them I'm here?

For reference I usually pop in and pop out. Don't expect me to be here, then you post 5 minutes later, and then for me to reply 5 minutes later again. I'm not always on for long periods of time.

We are two different players in one head. I'm Malakittens and the other is Pirate Mollie. Mollie was the one wanting to speak to you and that's her style in general. If you want me to get links to where she wanted to 'chat' with others. It's different from her calling out someone for lurking.

Figured.. Some people are and some people aren't.

______

I'm going to say this, but people who take a hard stance on going after lurkers is a red flag to me because scum use it as an easy hiding spot.

______

@Bubba:

Explain your vote on us please.

______

@Jake:

I detest policy lynches. So let me get this straight.. Your vote on Rob was because you think he's scummy, but also because you wanted to lynch him for information. So that's what? An information lynch you wanted so far and now a policy lynch. Please tell me how a policy lynch helps the town out at all? Why don't we lynch someone who's scummy? plzkthx

[Jake from State Farm]

Ok, Jake is painfully town lately. I'm going to stop second-guessing myself because of Pirate and Fuzzy.

now I am on a computer, here are the things why I voted rob

1. the counter wagon comment, I don't see any reason why town would want to start a counter wagon, nor why they make that comment.
2. his reason for voting rmp was terrible, I didn't see anything wrong with rmp's reaction to being run up
3. the "lurk much" was a joke, but the "suspiciously absent: was absolutely not a joke. The game had not been open for 24 hours yet so there is no need to call out my activity, plus if anyone knows my meta they know I almost always purposely wait until a few pages go by before I post my "sup"
4. post 125 - why me = fry me
5. post 108 says BBMolla could be rmp's partner but in post 125 says he doesn't speculate on partners, but he already had.

theWel rest of his posts just feel like he is trying to act town, so I peg him as a scum PR, probably stalker. He wants to make himself look at town as possible, but he has yet to make an argument that I like.

1. It was RVS. I was goofing around. A counter-wagon was necessary, though, because the initial wagon was based on a whole lot of nothing whereas catboi scummed it up by saying that the vig should claim. Combine that with the fact that catboi is new (likely to break if pressured early), and he was the best target for early pressure. Of course, he then site-flaked, so that died down. His successor will determine the majority of my read on the slot, but right now it's lean scum due to the early crap.

2. Rmp's reaction sucked. Things like this:

Also this is a nice bandwagon. I'm definitely a good lynch. I'm so scummy.

Made him look awful early on. He over-reacted, plain and simple. He's been giving me more town vibes lately and I have a bit of a conflicted read on the slot at the moment, but there was definitely more than enough reason to pressure him following that reaction.

3. The "suspiciously absent" and the "lurk much" were in the post. In fact, they were next to each other. If one is a joke, the other is logically a joke. How could I be serious about you lurking and joking about you lurking in two consecutive sentences? The entire thing was meant as a joke, which is why I put "/sarcasm" after it in order to emphasize that, since someone prior to that had specifically stated they were bad at reading sarcasm, IIRC. And I didn't know your meta, although that isn't really relevant.

4. If you're going to vote me, I'm going to ask for reasons to that vote. That's not scummy in the slightest. If you have some contention with my actions in the game, I want the opportunity to explain why I did what I did if you have actual reasons behind a vote, so of course I'm going to ask you why your vote is where it is. "Why me = fry me" is the worst scum-tell I've ever heard of (and this game is the first I've heard of it, although it's come up two times here already).

5. Yeah, I did this. I try not to speculate partners (and have said so in past games as town AND scum several times - I can post those if necessary), but I slip up on that a bit from time to time when I'm writing a reads list directly from notes. To explain a bit, I DO speculate partners in my own notes. I do NOT speculate partners in thread and try not to form reads that heavily rely on another live player's read. As far as I'm concerned, forming dependent reads is the fastest way to get nowhere, as if you're wrong on the first read that you formed, you'll be wrong on all your other reads. It forces you to literally start from scratch. I prefer to form independent reads and then write a mini decision-tree in my notes, such as "If X is scum, Y is possible scum due to post ####". Then I make note of the connections and can revisit if X flips scum, but easily disregard if X flips town. Make sense?

And what does "feels like he is trying to act town" mean, exactly? Please explain, preferably with examples.

1. I disagree a counter wagon is necessary, in fact i actually think getting a person to L-1 is a better way to go
2. That quote you posted from rmp was obvious sarcasm

the rest is just going to result in tit-for-tat due to disagreements and I don't really feel like getting into one right now.

[BBmolla]

PRs should probably just claim as PRs shouldnt they

no but the vig should probably claim for the following reasons since people are obviously so stupid.

1. it gives us a guranteed clear
2. it gives us someone the doc can protect (or not if they think mafia will hook him)
3. it sort of forces mafia to either try to kill them (hopefully protected by doc) or hook them (which would prevent the chance the cop or doc is hooked)
4. it narrows down the numbers to have to scum hunt from. Personally it's much easier to find scum out of a pool of 7 people than it is to find scum out of a pool of 8. It also gives us someone we can kind of listen to as the leader if we need help deciding between people.

in EM the vig claimed, no reason why they should not claim here either.

I'm fine with it, but we are basically trading a vig for an IC.

[Jake from State Farm]

@Jake:

I detest policy lynches. So let me get this straight.. Your vote on Rob was because you think he's scummy, but also because you wanted to lynch him for information. So that's what? An information lynch you wanted so far and now a policy lynch. Please tell me how a policy lynch helps the town out at all? Why don't we lynch someone who's scummy? plzkthx

Rob is scum, I'm sure of it so rob's lynch is a scum lynch

policy lynch helps town because it gets rid of an anti-town player who btw, is also scummy.

[Jake from State Farm]

I'm fine with it, but we are basically trading a vig for an IC.

not really trading a vig cause we have a doc, and unless mafia knows who the doc is, there is no way the vig doesn't live. Vig should not shoot N1 anyway, hell i would argue the vig should never shoot unless we know with pretty good certainty a person is scum otherwise we help mafia

[BBmolla]

Yeah good point. I'm down for Vig claim.

[rmpeacoc]

2. That quote you posted from rmp was obvious sarcasm

^^ this. I would have said that if I was scum, too...

[rmpeacoc]

Alright, Jake makes a good case, and as molla is in a agreement and I think they are both town...

I'm the vig.

[Rob14]

2. That quote you posted from rmp was obvious sarcasm

Well, duh. It also feels like he's trying way too hard to be unconcerned with his wagon. It sounds super forced. It's not something town says on page 2.

Also, you ARE trading a vig for an IC due to the hooker. They'll roleblock the vig indefinitely, so you essentially have an IC. Doc can protect the vig, but that doesn't change that the vig won't be able to use their ability.

....and I kept reading. Why on earth would you do that rmp? smh

[Jake from State Farm]

I cc

[Rob14]

Yo Jake, I want your opinion on Pirate's #653. Detailed please.

[Jake from State Farm]

lol j/k I retract

[Rob14]

I cc

wtf?

[Rob14]

lol j/k I retract

wtf again?

[Jake from State Farm]

2. That quote you posted from rmp was obvious sarcasm

Well, duh. It also feels like he's trying way too hard to be unconcerned with his wagon. It sounds super forced. It's not something town says on page 2.

Also, you ARE trading a vig for an IC due to the hooker. They'll roleblock the vig indefinitely, so you essentially have an IC. Doc can protect the vig, but that doesn't change that the vig won't be able to use their ability.

....and I kept reading. Why on earth would you do that rmp? smh

Vig should probably never shoot, it's a very bad role for town.

[Jake from State Farm]

Yo Jake, I want your opinion on Pirate's #653. Detailed please.

I cc

wtf?

lol j/k I retract

wtf again?

I'll read it tonight.

Have you EVER played EM before? Fake cc's were common as hell when I used to play

[Rob14]

2. That quote you posted from rmp was obvious sarcasm

Well, duh. It also feels like he's trying way too hard to be unconcerned with his wagon. It sounds super forced. It's not something town says on page 2.

Also, you ARE trading a vig for an IC due to the hooker. They'll roleblock the vig indefinitely, so you essentially have an IC. Doc can protect the vig, but that doesn't change that the vig won't be able to use their ability.

....and I kept reading. Why on earth would you do that rmp? smh

Vig should probably never shoot, it's a very bad role for town.

I disagree with this strongly due to this game being 6:3 considering the traitor. There are many situations where a vig kill would be highly advantageous. Consider this:

Day 1: Town lynch (5:3)
Night 1: Townie dies, vig doesn't shoot (good choice, obv) (4:3)
Day 2: Town lynch (3:3)
Night 2: If vig chooses to shoot randomly, they have 60% chance of hitting scum (because they know they're town themselves). They also HAVE to hit scum to prevent a insta-loss. In this scenario now, vig gets hooked.)

Result Day 3: If vig had shot successfully and hit scum, then it's (2:2) and still a possible win, although unlikely. If a claimed vig is blocked, then scum lynches the claimed vig with the traitor for the win - town win impossible.

This is only one scenario, and probably not the best example, but there was literally no reason to take the vig kill off the table as a possible ability to use later on, which is what you guys just did.

P-edit: Never played EM, never will.

[fuzzybutternut]

Rob, EM isn't that bad. It's just a lot less speculative and a lot faster than Forum Mafia.

Fake CC's are common on EM. I've seen town do it just to get a scum to out, but i've also seen scum do it just so a no lynch could occur.

[fuzzybutternut]

Granted, they usually only do it for a cop claim.

[JacobSavage]

Hey Ho.

I'm the New Cat in town (Literally I'm replacing catboi)
Up to page 15 already.

Going to sleep now will post thoughts tommorrow.

[RichardGHP]

JacobSavage replaces catboi effective

immediately

as of post 672.

[rmpeacoc]

I thought about it a lot before I claimed and it is TYPICALLY how we play this setup over on EM.

Regardless Jake probably shouldn't have retracted as quickly as he did. It would deter scum from ccing if there was already a cc.