281 Equivalent Exchange Mafia - Game Over


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Post Post #650 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:56 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Vaughn wrote:Defend myself? What points have been raised against me?
Did you actally read any of my posts? Sheesh.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #651 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 6:50 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Yosarian2 wrote:
Vaughn wrote:Defend myself? What points have been raised against me?
Did you actally read any of my posts? Sheesh.
my thoughts exactly
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Post Post #652 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 7:15 pm

Post by Foolster41 »

VoteCount: (With "To-lynch vision")
Vaughn 3 (-2) - MOS Yosarian2 Stevie

Yosarian2 2 (-3) - Vaughn Cropcircles
Cropcircles 1 (-4) - DragynMage
Stevie 1 - (-4) CES

Not voting: 2 - Akonas,A6S9

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Post Post #653 (ISO) » Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:13 pm

Post by Vaughn »

@MoS -

d_m is cleared for now because he not only claimed a main character of the anime, but he hasn't been counterclaimed. Aes has given information that he beleives that the main characters are in this game.

It's slipped my mind that chamber has cleared CES, and I apologize.
MoS wrote:Now, if we vote out one of Yos/MoS/Stevie, and crop vigs another, we're VERY likely to hit at least one scum.
Except that we are far from certain that there are ANY scum in that trio, though there is probably 1.
WIFOM, I won't even begin.
MoS wrote:Scum will probably kill Crop since he's a vig, leaving you, 2 docs, and one unclaimed atm. If either of the docs are lying, we're in trouble because they can just make you out to be scum (assuming for the moment that you are protown) and get you lynched even if you get a result. No one has any reason to trust you, and that late in the game, your results will carry even less weight to a smart protown player.
Already covered that, I want crop to kill since he's going to die tonight.
MoS wrote:That's my plan. I'm positive that Yos/MoS/Stevie group contain our scum.
I would say one of the scum could be here, but it's highly unlikely that all of our claimed roles are protown
More WIFOM... It's obvious that scum won't admit their scum, or reveal their partners.

The rest is pretty much speculation that I'm a SK or scum, and that my plan is nothing but a ploy to doom the town. Shrug, I'm a cop so I won't even bother responding to it.
MoS wrote:Can't we hammah him already?

bad idea
Why's lynching Yos a bad idea?

@Yos

Most of YoS statements are anti-claiming, and usually I'd agree with him, but we're in a situation where we have over half of the town cleared or claimed. The other half is an unknown to us, and not knowing only hurts the town. What's a better lynch? A claimed doc/cop/vig, or an unknown/claimed townie? We're nowhere near L-o-L, so taking a chance like this could solidify the win for us. I agree that it's a huge gambit, and since the town doesn't agree, we won't follow it.

Yos, don't get defensive over your role. I'm merely iterating the fact that the town's quite powerful, so the likelihood of other pro-town roles is slim.

The rest is more speculation "IF's" and whatnot about me being scum, I'm beginning to feel that MoS/Yos are somehow linked, and their cases aren't that strong against me.
YoS wrote:I asked you why you were pushing so hard for a mass claim, and suggested it might not be a good idea. As a direct , you attacked me and voted for me. Not only that, you did so with craplogic and while still fishing for my role.

If a mass claim is bad for the town, and I think it is, because I think there's a high chance that if both protective roles are telling the truth the scum will target someone who hasn't claimed yet in order to try to avoid protection, then I would say so if I was a townie or a power-role. In fact, the WORST time for a mass claim would be if some of the unclaimed people were vanillia townies and some were not, because that would make the scum's choice of who to kill that much easier.

So, if a mass-claim is bad for the town, why would a townie not be in favor of a mass claim?

The whole attack was clearly an attempt to discredit my logical arguments by attacking me, using complete craplogic to both try to attack me and to try to figure out from my response if I was a vanillia townie or not.

Not only that, you seem to be pushing very hard on the assumption that everyone who's claimed must be telling the truth, and everyone who has not claimed must be scum. Now, there's no logical reason for an assumption like that, especally when your "there's no more roles to claim" thing makes absolutly no sense when the Mod himself said

Foolster41 wrote:

And FYI, this game is only loosly based on the theme of the anime Full Metal Alchemist. Some characters will show up from the show, but there are many other additions.


So the only reason I can think of why you want to get everyone thinking "anyone who claimed must be a good guy" would be because you, and possibly your scum buddy, has claimed.
I attacked you because you discredited my plan without any content, I want to beleive all the other claims because we don't have any counterclaims. How come you don't question the ones who've claimed, if you're questioning their honesty, but attack ONLY me because I openly discuss what's on my mind, and I've tried to contribute by offering up a plan of action?
YoS wrote:Yeah. He's claimed cop when we already have a confirmed dead GG supercop in the game, he's generally acted scummy all game and got bandwagoned to a cop claim on day 1 because of his scummy behavior, he's pushing for a mass claim in a situation where a mass claim would clearly be bad for the town, and he's claimed to have an innocent investigation on the other most scummy looking person in the game.

vote:vauhgn
So to recap you think I'm scummy because:
a) A Dead
SUPERCOP
is revealed. Not to mention we have no true understanding of chamber's role, all we have is what he's said and he was quite tight-lipped about it. A role like mine, who can only investigate every other day, is plausible.
b) "Acted Scummy?" <-- I hope you're not referring to the mass claim idea.
c) Mass claim idea <-- If point b is the same as point c....
d) Cropcircles's innocence - Why thank you... I felt he was the most suspicious as well, and I investigated him accordingly, To my susprise Foolster told me was innocent, he claims vig and i go "SCORE", best possible outcome for town [Other than me finding scum].

Now, I'd like to offer up some of my thoughts:

I beleive I was correct when I stated Akonas/Stevie/Yos/Mos contain the scum, Perhaps not all, but I would like to think most of them. Yos and MoS have attacked my mass claim plan. Akonas and Stevie... I dont know, they may be lurking, they may be laying low to avoid suspicion (I tend to beleive the latter), or they could simply be busybodies :)

Being incorrect/gullible
DOES NOT EQUAL
Being scummy.

Please, comment if you want, Yos/MoS.
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Post Post #654 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 5:16 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Vaughn wrote: WIFOM, I won't even begin.
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Vaughn wrote:Already covered that, I want crop to kill since he's going to die tonight.
Why would you assume that crop would die tonight?

More importantly, why does it matter? A vig shooting at random tonight is likely to cost the town the game, therefore your suggested plan is very anti-town, which makes you more suspicious.

Vaughn wrote:Yos, don't get defensive over your role. I'm merely iterating the fact that the town's quite powerful, so the likelihood of other pro-town roles is slim.
I simply don't like the way you're fishing for my role. And you're still doing it, by suggesting that you think I'm a townie and seeing how I respond.

Anyway, if you think someone was a vanillia townie, the pro-town thing to would be to not say so. Why give the scum hints?



I attacked you because you discredited my plan without any content, I want to beleive all the other claims because we don't have any counterclaims. How come you don't question the ones who've claimed, if you're questioning their honesty, but attack ONLY me because I openly discuss what's on my mind, and I've tried to contribute by offering up a plan of action?
Vaughn wrote:
So to recap you think I'm scummy because:
a) A Dead
SUPERCOP
is revealed. Not to mention we have no true understanding of chamber's role, all we have is what he's said and he was quite tight-lipped about it. A role like mine, who can only investigate every other day, is plausible.
(shrug) I'm going by what Chamber said as far as his role is concerned. Anyway, that dosn't prove you're scum, but it does mean that your role does not have to be in the game.
Vaughn wrote: b) "Acted Scummy?" <-- I hope you're not referring to the mass claim idea.
Nope. It's more the way you've been attacking me for disagreeing you, the way you've been fishing for everyone's role, and the suspicious day 1-behavior.

Anyway, since then, you have done more suspicious things that make me feel better about my vote; specificially, the way you keep using craplogic which is a good scum tell (as I have pointed out in my last several posts, most of the points within you are still ignoring), the way you keep assuming some people must be town and other people must be scum (townies tend to be more suspicious, scum are more likely to blankly declare several people innocent in order to try to manipulate them into lynching someone else), and most suspicious of all, the way you keep trying to lead the town into following plans that would probably end in a town loss.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #655 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 2:53 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

more red stuff
Vaughn wrote:@MoS -

d_m is cleared for now because he not only claimed a main character of the anime, but he hasn't been counterclaimed. Aes has given information that he beleives that the main characters are in this game.
It's not hard to say that the main characters are in a THEMED game...especially after someone claimed a main character...in addition, many theme games DO leave out a main/semimain character in order to give the scum a safe claim that won't be counterclaimed. Just because he wasn't counterclaimed doesn't mean he isn't scum.


It's slipped my mind that chamber has cleared CES, and I apologize.
MoS wrote:Now, if we vote out one of Yos/MoS/Stevie, and crop vigs another, we're VERY likely to hit at least one scum.
Except that we are far from certain that there are ANY scum in that trio, though there is probably 1.
WIFOM, I won't even begin.
If my argument is WIFOM, then so is yours, so why are you using it?

MoS wrote:Scum will probably kill Crop since he's a vig, leaving you, 2 docs, and one unclaimed atm. If either of the docs are lying, we're in trouble because they can just make you out to be scum (assuming for the moment that you are protown) and get you lynched even if you get a result. No one has any reason to trust you, and that late in the game, your results will carry even less weight to a smart protown player.
Already covered that, I want crop to kill since he's going to die tonight.
Umm, my count included Crop killing one of the unclaimed, hence us going down to one unclaimed...either way, Crop killing or not was not the main point of my statement. I was merely showing you what would probably happen if we followed your plan and had crop kill. You have yet to address this point.

MoS wrote:That's my plan. I'm positive that Yos/MoS/Stevie group contain our scum.
I would say one of the scum could be here, but it's highly unlikely that all of our claimed roles are protown
More WIFOM... It's obvious that scum won't admit their scum, or reveal their partners.
Again, if mine is wifom, then so is yours, so make up your mind. You wouldn't admit if one of the people you so easily "cleared" is scum, either.


The rest is pretty much speculation that I'm a SK or scum, and that my plan is nothing but a ploy to doom the town. Shrug, I'm a cop so I won't even bother responding to it.
MoS wrote:Can't we hammah him already?

bad idea
Why's lynching Yos a bad idea?
Because he hasn't done anything scummy to warrant lynching, whereas people like you and Aes have.
You still haven't responded to the rest of my statements, most of which had valid points that WEREN'T just saying you were scum, even though you ignore them and claim they are. Your "plan" fails to account for many highly likely possibilities. You base your plan on the best possible scenarios, when you should be accounting for the worst probable scenarios, instead.
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Post Post #656 (ISO) » Sun Mar 12, 2006 3:27 pm

Post by Akonas »

I'm very close to voting Vaughn if he doesn't respond aquedately. I don't really have anything to add to that list atm.
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Post Post #657 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 2:34 am

Post by cropcircles »

Akonas wrote:I'm very close to voting Vaughn if he doesn't respond aquedately. I don't really have anything to add to that list atm.
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Post Post #658 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:18 am

Post by Aes6Sedai9 »

@Vaughn why didn't you clear Cropcircles before he had to Claim.
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Post Post #659 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:22 am

Post by cropcircles »

*ahem*

That makes no sense. I claimed before chamber was killed by the mod. Remember? We each lost an HP, and I claimed because my ability says nothing about me losing HP, so that would suggest that chamber lied about his ability.
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Post Post #660 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 8:15 am

Post by Aes6Sedai9 »

role name that would have given us a name under the gun that if claimed.... but i understand what you are saying.
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Post Post #661 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:28 am

Post by StevieT92 »

Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:I actually sort of believe Vaughn right now.

And basically I think we should lynch Stevie.
vote: StevieT92
Your attempt to distract us from Vaughn is noted.
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Post Post #662 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:50 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Vaughn always acts scummy. I believe 'im this time.

I think you might be scum however. So you should all lynch Stevie.
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Post Post #663 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:20 pm

Post by cropcircles »

I could get behind that.
Unvote, Vote Stevie
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Post Post #664 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:04 pm

Post by Vaughn »

Shrug, The ones I've pointed out are the ones who have taken offence. This could mean one of two things:

1) I'm 100% on the dot, and Akonas/MoS/Yos/Stevie contain our scum.
2) The players who I think are pro-town are lying scumbags and are keeping quiet, watching me self-destruct the town by turning everyone against me.

I beleived I threw out that I had an innocent investigation in the beginning of the day. It was unaminous that I shouldn't reveal until that person was bandwagoned. I did my duty properly, crop came under fire and I knew he was innocent, so I revealed my investigation.

Okay here's my official stance on things:

My playstyle is admittingly scummy. I fish and I prod regardless because it's just the way I play. Needless to say, my survival rate is low. However, my accuracy for finding scum is high, when I'm not scum that is.

From my experience so far, I've realized that I do get beaten due to my use of "craplogic", and my gullible nature. I make concrete statements because I play with an open mind. Yos's counter against me is quite admirable to the point that I'm beginning to feel that he's not scum.

unvote, vote Stevie
That leaves Akonas/MoS for a later date.
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Post Post #665 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:13 pm

Post by Akonas »

I am going to be going on a band trip, so I will have no internet access until next Tuesday at least. I'm posting this in all my games to let you know.
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Post Post #666 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:01 pm

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Vaughn wrote:Shrug, The ones I've pointed out are the ones who have taken offence. This could mean one of two things:

1) I'm 100% on the dot, and Akonas/MoS/Yos/Stevie contain our scum.
2) The players who I think are pro-town are lying scumbags and are keeping quiet, watching me self-destruct the town by turning everyone against me.

I beleived I threw out that I had an innocent investigation in the beginning of the day. It was unaminous that I shouldn't reveal until that person was bandwagoned. I did my duty properly, crop came under fire and I knew he was innocent, so I revealed my investigation.

Okay here's my official stance on things:

My playstyle is admittingly scummy. I fish and I prod regardless because it's just the way I play. Needless to say, my survival rate is low. However, my accuracy for finding scum is high, when I'm not scum that is.

From my experience so far, I've realized that I do get beaten due to my use of "craplogic", and my gullible nature. I make concrete statements because I play with an open mind. Yos's counter against me is quite admirable to the point that I'm beginning to feel that he's not scum.

unvote, vote Stevie
That leaves Akonas/MoS for a later date.
rofl. You play with an open mind? Then why are you so closed minded when assuming people's innocence?

You say your scum finding rate is high...you've only been on Mafiascum for three months, and you want people to trust your scumfinding abilities? I've got one of the highest (if not THE highest) rates of finding scum on this site, whether I myself am scum or not. The problem is that no one ever listens to me, and it always hurts the town in the end. If you wanna use player statistics to get people to listen to you, mine FAR outweigh yours no matter how you look at it. So please don't use useless arguments like that unless you've got a lot more experience to back it up.
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Post Post #667 (ISO) » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:49 pm

Post by Vaughn »

I'm quick to judge, but if you lay a decent case in front of me, I can be swayed. I did not mean to impose that i'm inflexible, and the experience was simply to let people in on my playstyle.

MoS, it sounds like you're willing to put your reputation on the line that I'm scum, is that so? I'm only attempting to save you from embaressment here. On the otherhand, you've made no case to suggest that you're innocent. You've thrown your "case" at me that I'm scummy, but what about yourself?
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Post Post #668 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:51 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

Vaughn wrote:I'm quick to judge, but if you lay a decent case in front of me, I can be swayed. I did not mean to impose that i'm inflexible, and the experience was simply to let people in on my playstyle.

MoS, it sounds like you're willing to put your reputation on the line that I'm scum, is that so? I'm only attempting to save you from embaressment here. On the otherhand, you've made no case to suggest that you're innocent. You've thrown your "case" at me that I'm scummy, but what about yourself?
what about myself? There is no case against me. You're the one with your neck on the line, here. Why don't you get around to answering the rest of our posts instead of trying to distract people.
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Post Post #669 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 5:59 am

Post by Aes6Sedai9 »

I'm for the
Vote: Stevie
Though one of us should actually make a case against him to be fair.

All i can say is his general not much posting and when doing so not adding anything at all 90% of the time. I still have an off feeling about Vaughn but there's not much to put behind it other than my natural compulsion i guess. My main suspicion lies on Akonas though :( and he's going away till tuesday.
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Post Post #670 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:04 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Ok, that's 4 votes on Stevie. He needs to claim.

My reasons:
1. complete lack of contribution
2. distanced himself from the Tamuz wagon.
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Post Post #671 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:10 am

Post by Mastermind of Sin »

I agree that stevie should claim, although I still think it's a rather baseless bandwagon when you compare it to the other suspects we have right now.
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Post Post #672 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:07 am

Post by Yosarian2 »

Well, I'd like to see Stevie participate more, that's certanly true. But I don't like the speed at which the bandwagon on Steve came out of nowhere, especally if it's only based on him semi-lurking. Makes me wonder if Vaughn has a partner or partners who are willing to push any bandwagon that's not Vaughn. The possible link between Vaughn and AesSedi seems especally strong, with the way he's both been defending Vaughn all day and the way he quickly put the fourth vote on the Stevie bandwagon.
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Post Post #673 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:39 am

Post by Foolster41 »

VoteCount: (With "To-lynch vision")
Stevie 4 - (-1) CES Cropcircles Vaughn A6S9

Vaughn 3 (-2) - MOS Yosarian2 Stevie
Cropcircles 1 (-4) - DragynMage

Not voting: 1 - Akonas

9 Alive, 5 to lynch
Last edited by Foolster41 on Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #674 (ISO) » Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:41 am

Post by Cogito Ergo Sum »

Yosarian2 wrote: I don't like the speed at which the bandwagon on Steve came out of nowhere, especally if it's only based on him semi-lurking.
X


There's nothing wrong with following me.
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