Open 581: Making Friends and Enemies! (Game over)

[elleheathen]

elle, comments on my post about Cheetory?

Mostly I just find it curious that you're trying to work with me to 'explore my Cheetory read' - when he's your townread and I'm your scumread.

I wasn't going to

bother

commenting as you saying:

I assume your read on Cheetory is based mainly on how he's digging at your answers to questions?

says to me that you didn't

bother

to actually read it if you have to

assume

.

And:

I also found your answers to be somewhat inconsistent -- if you make allowances for people having trouble understanding what you wrote, does that change your impression of their motivation in seeking clarification?

You'll have to be more clear if you're expecting a response.
What answers? Inconsistence with what? Specific instance instead of generalization?

Maybe it's time for me to be blunt too.

I read your whole ISO, and I can't find a single post where you come right out and say cheetory is scummy and why. You say he's in your "willing to vote" pile and that's as close as you come.

So then what gives you the impression that I would answer this:

Of those 5, which are you most confident of being scum?

Let's explore the cheetory read. I could go back and reread, but could you summarize what makes him scummy?

When in my ISO, the only comments I've made really about my concern over Cheetory, is to discuss my feels when LR and I are sharing reads?

[Cheetory6]

unlikely to be scum* in bolded of last post.

[elleheathen]

How can your pregame thoughts which make someone unlikely to be town have absolutely no effect on how you're reading someone?

Unlikely to be

scum

.
It doesn't affect how I'm reading them, as evidenced by my read on davesaz - it only affects whether or not I vote for them today.

[Cheetory6]

I will literally be so flabbergasted if you're town q.q
You really have no idea why that sounds fake to me?

[Lone Ranger]

I have nothing to add at this point until the inactives are replaced and I hear from the replacements in a way that will help me get reads on them.

The only thing I really want to comment on is how no one seems to have any issue with Green Crayons's analysis. Too many look at his walls, nod their heads in agreement and say "good point, I didn't notice that!" or similar things. It is lame as hell and moderately annoying. GC's analysis is shallow, surface level, and looks fake. Scum are perfectly capable of writing walls and posting comments and the easy townreads there suck. Unlike my previous concern about people townreading Cheetory, this one is more of I feel that GC is scum coasting by on surface level analysis that a whole bunch of town are buying hook, line, and sinker. What of GC's posts have felt town? Where has GC at any point felt genuine and like he was trying to solve the game? His analysis is skin-deep and lame as hell. And that's who I think people should look into.

Elle, if you are town, don't give up. Your lynch is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what the thoughts and opinions of the people replacing in are going to be? I sympathize with your feeling of being frustrated at trying to drive the game forward only to picked apart and its probably one of the reasons that all things being equal, I'd lynch someone who is contributing less.

[elleheathen]

I have nothing to add at this point until the inactives are replaced and I hear from the replacements in a way that will help me get reads on them.

The only thing I really want to comment on is how no one seems to have any issue with Green Crayons's analysis. Too many look at his walls, nod their heads in agreement and say "good point, I didn't notice that!" or similar things. It is lame as hell and moderately annoying. GC's analysis is shallow, surface level, and looks fake. Scum are perfectly capable of writing walls and posting comments and the easy townreads there suck. Unlike my previous concern about people townreading Cheetory, this one is more of I feel that GC is scum coasting by on surface level analysis that a whole bunch of town are buying hook, line, and sinker. What of GC's posts have felt town? Where has GC at any point felt genuine and like he was trying to solve the game? His analysis is skin-deep and lame as hell. And that's who I think people should look into.

Why do you think I'm telling masons to recruit GC?

And don't forget avoiding my lynch - even though he thinks 'i'm suspicious' and in our last round of posting, I apparently didn't do anything to either change his mind about this read on me or make him think I was town. Sideline advocating my lynch but not wanting to be on it, because davesaz was a much better vote? Town would have voted me there, imo, if that suspicion was genuine.

I wouldn't have said it before until I was more sure because it's really just giving him a copout reason to put his vote on me - but yeah, getting tired of fighting the lynch.

[elleheathen]

VOTE: Green Crayons

Go ahead, vultures.

[Green Crayons]

I have nothing to add at this point until the inactives are replaced and I hear from the replacements in a way that will help me get reads on them.

The only thing I really want to comment on is how no one seems to have any issue with Green Crayons's analysis. Too many look at his walls, nod their heads in agreement and say "good point, I didn't notice that!" or similar things. It is lame as hell and moderately annoying. GC's analysis is shallow, surface level, and looks fake. Scum are perfectly capable of writing walls and posting comments and the easy townreads there suck. Unlike my previous concern about people townreading Cheetory, this one is more of I feel that GC is scum coasting by on surface level analysis that a whole bunch of town are buying hook, line, and sinker. What of GC's posts have felt town? Where has GC at any point felt genuine and like he was trying to solve the game? His analysis is skin-deep and lame as hell. And that's who I think people should look into.

Elle, if you are town, don't give up. Your lynch is far from a foregone conclusion. Who knows what the thoughts and opinions of the people replacing in are going to be? I sympathize with your feeling of being frustrated at trying to drive the game forward only to picked apart and its probably one of the reasons that all things being equal, I'd lynch someone who is contributing less.

You're bad at slandering me.

[elleheathen]

Regail me at how he was a townread of mine.
Remind me that he was just in my wouldn't vote pile.
Vote me because it's so scum that I would go against that.

You can bet my 'Bah! post' will say ITYS.

[Green Crayons]

Why do you think I'm telling masons to recruit GC?

And don't forget avoiding my lynch - even though he thinks 'i'm suspicious' and in our last round of posting, I apparently didn't do anything to either change his mind about this read on me or make him think I was town. Sideline advocating my lynch but not wanting to be on it, because davesaz was a much better vote? Town would have voted me there, imo, if that suspicion was genuine.

I wouldn't have said it before until I was more sure because it's really just giving him a copout reason to put his vote on me - but yeah, getting tired of fighting the lynch.

That's a lot of assumptions about how I feel about you.

[davesaz]

UNVOTE:

On hold for replacements.

[Grib]

LR, if you think GC's posts suck, attack him. Sink your claws in. Pointing fingers from the sidelines is for preschoolers.

elle, giving up when you're about to be lynched doesn't help town, and it only increases your chances of dying. Pretend you don't have votes on you and tunnel someone.

UNVOTE:

On hold for replacements.

Why did you feel the need to make this post?

[Armageddon]

Vote count
Day 1.9

Players alive: 13

Players needed to lynch: 7

CorpsesInEthanol

- 1 - Riddleton - (L-6)

elleheathen

- 4 - CorpsesInEthanol, Cheetory6, Grib, Whatisswag - (L-3)

Grib

- 1 - NJAC - (L-6)

I Love Fairies

- 1 - Green Crayons - (L-6)

Kaboose

- 1 - Lone Ranger - (L-6)

NJAC

- 1 - Kaboose - (L-6)

Whatisswag

- 1 - I Love Fairies - (L-6)

Players not voting: awesomeusername, davesaz, elleheathen

Mod notes:

Still looking for replacements for awesomeusername and I Love Fairies.
CorpsesInEthanol has failed to respond to their prod and will be replaced.

Deadline is in

(expired on 2015-01-14 20:45:00)

[/b]

Due to the length of time left on the deadline there will be no extension at this time due to amount of replacements required, however I will decide whether or not to freeze the deadline over the next few days depending on how quickly we get replacements.

[Green Crayons]

@mod:

I'm voting Fairies as of the last page.

Oops, missed that one, thanks.

[Whatisswag]

Btw, MASONS DONT RECRUIT TONIGHT. For obvious reasons.

[Whatisswag]

Ok, I just spent like a lot of time doing scum team analysis.

My conclusion is that THERE ARE NO POSSIBLE SCUM TRIPLES in the players: GC, Cheet, dave, Grib, LR, elle, Kaboose.

There are quite a number of scum pairs though (I will not reveal them because I dont want to reveal the possible masons).

UNVOTE: elle

I WILL BE WAITING FOR YOU GUYS to wagon one of the lurkers (which is one of the people not in the above pile).

[Whatisswag]

Actually screw it, NJAC is the first name I see who is not going to get replaced.

VOTE: NJAC

[davesaz]

UNVOTE:

On hold for replacements.

Why did you feel the need to make this post?

Flip that question, why would it be an issue?

[Lone Ranger]

LR, if you think GC's posts suck, attack him. Sink your claws in. Pointing fingers from the sidelines is for preschoolers.

The fuck did I just read? There are plenty of ways to attack. You could direct your questions to a player directly, or to the game at large. Or talk about that player with other people. The implication that there's only one way to attack is bad.

[Grib]

dave, you misspelled "dodge." I was just wondering since it didn't seem necessary.

LR, point out where GC's analysis is surface level or scummy. You're asking everyone to look at his post and explain why it's town, when really you should be telling us why it's scummy. I see you subtlety shifting the burden of proof of

your

claims and opinions onto everyone else.

Swag, stop telling the Masons what to do.

[Kaboose]

elle, the more you lurk, the less I care about lynching elsewhere.

lol, I love that this comes right after one of my posts. Srsly.

Who is even left for you scumread, after you've cleared 7 or so players from your lynchpool?

So with confirms, towns and this, that's me not wanting to vote for:

Kaboose. NJAC. davesaz. Grib. GC. awesomeusername. and now LR.

So that leaves:
Cheetory. ILF. Corpses. swag. and Riddleton.

I really only quoted this to get your 543, but why do you not want to vote NJAC?
---

By the way, if you guys are wondering, it was a post dave made 4 months ago.

Is this whole thing something you can share? If you found something that clears him as town to you why aren't you sharing? Is that against the rules and I'm just too new to know? Or what's going on. Why are we supposed to just see this and think it's okay? Are you going to just tell me you don't care what I think about it? Please don't. You wouldn't have made these posts unless you wanted us to know what you think, so please tell me why I should care what you think.
---

Btw, MASONS DONT RECRUIT TONIGHT. For obvious reasons.

I'd imagine the only people looking to avoid the mason's recruiting would be scum.

[NJAC]

Giving this another try...

[Green Crayons]

Waiting to recruit is not necessarily a bad strategy, as it means that it is less likely that the recruited player will be killed, and the longer the masons wait to recruit the more powerful their recruiting power will become in terms of providing information.

That said, it's also risky because once one mason dies, it could reveal the other mason via associative tells - and if they had not recruited yet, then there would be a night phase where the remaining mason would get killed before being able to recruit and reveal the results.

(shrug) Sounds like a timing strategy the masons should figure out on their own.

[elleheathen]

but why do you not want to vote NJAC?

Here we go again:

I'm still holding to my feels that the first to confirms will be the least likely to be scums and would rather lynch outside of them today - unless they really just do something that starts absolutely screaming scum to me.

[Kaboose]

but why do you not want to vote NJAC?

Here we go again:

I'm still holding to my feels that the first to confirms will be the least likely to be scums and would rather lynch outside of them today - unless they really just do something that starts absolutely screaming scum to me.

So when someone confirms it tells more about the role they got and less about the time zone they live in?