Newbie 1867 - Game Over

[Ircher]

Not really other than the fact that you kinda reminded me that I wasn't a huge fan of Ventrilo's posts either.

[vulcan logician]

@Nacho Hey... I'll be checking periodically before EOD. I did as you asked and read Ircher's ISO trying to really see possible towniness in it. I'm still 60% leaning scum on Ircher. I'd like you to take a look at his ISO and see if you do/don't get the same "opportunist" vibe that I'm getting.

@Ircher, I'm set on either you or rampage being the lynch. I'd prefer you, but if it comes down to it, I'll hammer rampage myself if need be. Even if rampage flips green, it will be good to get him out of the pool of consideration--that way we can focus on hunting the real scum.

[teacher]

Obligatory Wall response to Nancy:

This is a really ugly line of thought from you.

What does this mean? Dont understand. But to answer your follow up question, my experience is too limited to provide a basis, so Im approaching this from theory. My theory is that (1) scum want to appear town, (2) to have a mislynch go through, and (3) find PRs, in that order. Just because finding PRs is 3rd/lower importance doesnt mean its not a goal. And Scion's old naked vote (what was under discussion) doesnt accomplish 1 or 2 either. So I saw it as town since it doesnt check any box.

Unless I am misunderstanding you, your reasoning here only really makes sense if you think that one of the other wagons is Scioness' partner, because otherwise she would have no need to convince anyone.

Not sure whether you misunderstand my reasoning or not. I think you understand it and we just disagree. I dont think scum often just naked votes - its too attention-getting without much benefit.

Could you quote one or two of Scioness' posts that you like the most and talk about why more specifically? Could you do the same for Ircher if you have time? That would be super super helpful.

. Not doing this, primarily because I think I had already done this - Scioness in the post under discussion; Ircher in 340. Both are somewhat outdated, but they have my reasoning. If you have questions about Irchers (like you have had about Scion), I am glad to answer them, but am already in a re-evaluate position there.

What specifically about her stating her dislike of the vulcan wagon did you like?

Unless Vulcan is her partner (low odds 1/9*1/8 together, 1/8 standing alone), defending a leading wagon upon entry is towny. Plus, as stated by my own entry, I agreed with her read, meaning that she was providing analysis that makes sense, something I town/dont want to lynch. I think her questions are quite good; you evidently agree. I dont understand why you question something you apparently agree with, but that is just a playstyle disconnect.

I don't think this is good reasoning because other people often don't do what we would do and that doesn't make them scum. You should be trying to understand vulcan's mindset and reading into his behavior through that, not thinking that he is scummy for behaving in ways that may well be entirely natural for him even if they aren't for you.[/spoiler]

Agree on the mindset; I think this was poor wording from me. It wasnt about what Town!Me would do (though that was accurate), it was about what I expect Town!ANYONE to do. Put simply, I dont see a towny motivation for asking someone else (who had already provided an explanation) to make a case, particularly when providing Town!Anyone's own case might speed the wagon on Town!anyone falling apart.

[teacher]

Another reaction post while catching up.

Okay, so the problem I have here is that Teacher here is giving a collection of things that can be more or less defined as "scummy" without really giving regard to the probability of a townie acting in a similar way.

An important thing to do, but one I had done (explicitly saying it could be too attention-seeking to be scum). I balanced it all out, but came out as a scumread.

You then proceed to basically skip all of my mid-game content (which while not by any means spectacular, it matters) and jump to the few posts I've made towards the end of the game.Sure, I expressed disinterest.

How is that scum-motivated?

Yeah, I put a naked vote without explanation on North.

How is that scum-motivated?

I even voted No Lynch, and I agree it is by no means town-motivated (i.e.: it is an anti-town action). The question remains the same though.

How is that scum-motivated?

First, my post that you were referring to presented the highlights of my conclusion in a single paragraph. I did a PbP in 340 that addressed the "mid-game" as well. Your questions about motivation are...off, as you should well know given your statements that anything in this game can cut either way. An expression of disinterest can either be legit or an attempt to explain lurking and fiddling while town burns. The naked vote on North was acknowledged OMGUS, which can be a scum trying to dissuade others from voting them (OMGUS runs strong in you). No-lynch Ive already addressed -- could be seeking a way to make precisely this argument in favor of towning your slot.

I want you to seriously consider for a moment the reasons that scum would act the way I have this game, without dwelling on the WIFOM argument of "Too Scummy To Be Scum". Do you believe that scum will consistently plant themselves in the spotlight and throw shade on other players in the hopes that it will stick? Do you believe that scum will consistently perform actions that will draw attention to them and increase the probability that they are lynched. Do you believe that scum act randomly in the hopes that something works? Do you believe that town players are going to play a perfect game. Because at the moment, that is basically what you are suggesting I am doing.

Of course your actions appear town if I dont consider scum motivations, so the starting sentence is pointless. But I will answer your following questions: On the first, the answer is no, but I think the premise is wrong in that I dont think you were in the spotlight until the replacements came in (retrospective spotlight rather than realtime). The second goes with the first, also no but I dont think you were attention seeking early. Same with the third - no, scum arent random but by your own narrative you havent acted randomly all game. Finally, the fourth is a no too.

[nancy]

Holy pages, fuck yes. I can't wait to read through this when I get off work.

[teacher]

Inb4 Ircher is mafia TMIing that Draynth is town.

What does this mean? I take it you are reacting to Ircher's 539, but I cant tell how and you have provided no sign of how you read this slot other than the fact that you didnt vote it. TBH, I didnt focus on Ircher's 539 when doing the ISO, but I like it from him - a leading wagon trying to stall a potential counter generally looks good. As part of my revaluation on Ircher, I will have to check for Ircher-Draynth associatives, but my pure memory is that they had a vote interchange that seemed unlikely to be SvS in the 100s. With that added info, what were/are you thinking when you wrote this, and now?

[nancy]

@Ircher I wasn't saying I agreed with his reasoning, I just liked that he was able to talk about his read semi-coherently. I haven't really looked super closely at it or at him honestly.

[nancy]

Inb4 Ircher is mafia TMIing that Draynth is town.

What does this mean? I take it you are reacting to Ircher's 539, but I cant tell how and you have provided no sign of how you read this slot other than the fact that you didnt vote it. TBH, I didnt focus on Ircher's 539 when doing the ISO, but I like it from him - a leading wagon trying to stall a potential counter generally looks good. As part of my revaluation on Ircher, I will have to check for Ircher-Draynth associatives, but my pure memory is that they had a vote interchange that seemed unlikely to be SvS in the 100s. With that added info, what were/are you thinking when you wrote this, and now?

It was mostly a joke. If he's mafia he just spewed Draynth town.

[teacher]

eh, teacher, i know you are busy right now but i will need you to town it up for me a little as soon as you can. your posts are alright but i'm reading your slot stronger than i read you.
maybe it's is because i've got a feeling you are buddying me? but i'm not putting much stock into it since i can't locate where it comes from and if it was really happening i'd probably miss it.

Yea, Im only ever going to sneak one or two posts in on weekends - sorry. But as for buddying you, I think it is a correct feeling and correct in that it doesnt have a particular source. The fact is that I town you way above random, for reasons I previously provided to Nancy. I suppose I could try to cut down my reactions, but that wouldnt be genuine and thus would be bad. So I guess we are where we are, for whatever thats worth.

[teacher]

Yeah, I think Vulcan's behavior in his one game here matches my view of his behavior here.

Explain? (though Im fine with the Rampage counter, I found 558 to be blah as I will explain i a future post).

[vulcan logician]

@teacher if you had to pick one or the other, would you vote Ircher or Rampage?

[TheRampage]

Here, I will help you guys out.

VOTE: TheRampage

Go ahead, I am green and you can lynch Ircher tomorrow

[vulcan logician]

I'm trying to get more energy behind the Ircher wagon, dude. I'm pretty sure you'll flip green, so do me a favor and put your vote back on Ircher because he's more likely scum than you are IMO.

[teacher]

I genuinely dont know without reevaluating. I have caught up now. I think I am still on Ircher, as the more information lynch of the two wagons. But I need to sleep on the PC!Ircher soft Scioness pointed out, and his play since Friday.

I saw the soft at the time and actually read it as scummy -- I thought it was way too obvious to be an actual crumb like some of the other ones I have seen. I hadnt included it in my cases because I didnt want to call attention to it if Ircher actually was PR. But since the attention is already there, I need to decide whether I think Ircher is actually PR or not. Like I said above, I have liked alot of his play since Friday at a gut level, but the tactic-shifting is giving me whiplash, and still feel quite scummy from both the early and mid play before the play I like.

My choice is between a heavier scum read with associative benefits if it flips red, but conflicts from play and a soft, or a lighter scum read with limited associatives and no soft. I genuinely dont know what the best move is in this circumstance, as it is not one I have been in before.

One question to Scioness: Has your defense of Ircher been based primarily on the soft, or the play outside of it?

[TheRampage]

I'm trying to get more energy behind the Ircher wagon, dude. I'm pretty sure you'll flip green, so do me a favor and put your vote back on Ircher because he's more likely scum than you are IMO.

Aight

UNVOTE: The Rampage

VOTE: Ircher

[teacher]

Here, I will help you guys out.

VOTE: TheRampage

Go ahead, I am green and you can lynch Ircher tomorrow

Um, genuinely WTF is this?! It is a terrible play for town!you, as you could go through AND weaken VCA abilities. It is a terrible play for scum!you for obvious reasons. It is almost like Ircher's No-lynch vote in just being terrible, but without any motivations I can understand at all. Dont do this.

PEDIT: Thank god. What were you thinking?

[teacher]

Okay. I'm caught up (again). As it stands now I am still willing to lynch Ircher. But ofrhz and draynth seems to have pinged some people too

Hard to believe I had to go back 4 pages to get to something posted only 4 hours ago. Looks like the game might finally come alive before the deadline.

Vulcan, Id love for you and @Draynth to do a full catchup readslist. As I said earlier, I genuinely liked your early play. But you checked out right as I checked in, and this catchup didnt give me that much faith (it seemed to imply you didnt know ofrhz was gone). You and Draynth have been the most lurkey since my arrival in total, so would definitely like to interact with you more - as you suggested.

[vulcan logician]

Okay. I'm caught up (again). As it stands now I am still willing to lynch Ircher. But ofrhz and draynth seems to have pinged some people too

Hard to believe I had to go back 4 pages to get to something posted only 4 hours ago. Looks like the game might finally come alive before the deadline.

Vulcan, Id love for you and @Draynth to do a full catchup readslist. As I said earlier, I genuinely liked your early play. But you checked out right as I checked in, and this catchup didnt give me that much faith (it seemed to imply you didnt know ofrhz was gone). You and Draynth have been the most lurkey since my arrival in total, so would definitely like to interact with you more - as you suggested.

Good point there man. That has to suggest a real lack of awareness on my part. And you are right to call me on it. But you gotta admit, this game has a revolving door problem atm. Once we get to D2, we'll probably have our cast & crew memorized, but for now, it's hard to keep up.

Plus that, an actual event needs to happen in this game--

badly.

Even if it's a mislynch. As EOD approaches, I think players need to cast their votes so that we get two competing wagons and some real information to work with.

I'll throw a readlist together soon, but it's going to be

concise

and

to-the-point

, because that's what this game needs more of right now.

[Huntress]

Vote Count 1.17

Ircher (3) - teacher, vulcan logician, TheRampage
TheRampage (3) - Ircher, Scioness Sajj, northsidegal
northsidegal (1) - Nachomamma8
Draynth (1) - nancy

Not voting (1) - Draynth


With nine players alive, it takes five votes to lynch.

New deadline for Day One is Monday, 21st May, 11pm BST

, (in (expired on 2018-05-21 23:00:00)).

Nachomamma8 has been prodded.

[nancy]

Hum. That teacher wagon just disappeared huh.

[nancy]

Vote: teacher

@Nacho come back here?

[nancy]

Actually I'll join you.

Vote: northsidegal

[Draynth]

Actually I'll join you.

Vote: northsidegal

I'm reading the Ircher / TheRampage stuff now but why in god's name are you voting NSG with 12 hours left

[Nachomamma8]

I'm alive, I'll make a significant post before I sleep and before I go to work tonight.

[nancy]

Actually I'll join you.

Vote: northsidegal

I'm reading the Ircher / TheRampage stuff now but why in god's name are you voting NSG with 12 hours left

Why in god's name are you asking why in the god's name anything when you've been AWOL since forever?