Mafiascum.net

greeting being self-aware about the self-hammer threat in 244 sort of weakens the credit for it, but I buy the line from him at the end: "It would be unlikely for me to do that in most games, but like I said multiple times before, I think this time it's worth it." In particular, egging on the votes in 250 makes me again think this is coming from town.

The re-quoting the post about setup stuff in 367 also doesn't feel like a play for towncred, more like Greeting legitimately believes that advice and feels the urgent need to make sure people see it.

The continued tunnel back on igorsprite out of distaste for him lying in 416 also feels like town, Greeting has previously said he thinks it's unlikely igorsprite is lying, I don't think he suddenly reverses on that read to a stance of extreme skepticism as scum. As previously stated, attacking igorsprite here is pure negative utility for scum because he's very unlikely to get voted by other players and would be more likely to track a player out of spite for daring to suspect him. The fact that he's continuing on with his suspicion of igorsprite as of 581 despite other players showing no interst is also townpoints - I would expect most scum players to have abandoned the push by now.

The weak defense of me in 619 is kind of meh, could see that post coming from scum wanting to stay off my wagon but I don't think one pingy post at the end counteracts the whole body of work.

So, yeah, although some of his early posts had me feeling unease, I'm standing firm on that read.

In post 649, StrangeMatter wrote:Speaking of, to everyone on the Thyn wagon, what was the reason for their elimination? I feel like nobody really went through and talked about that, and I didn't really see anything that particularly pinged me.

Also, I absolutely didn't know that.

Implosion had made a point that he was casting a wide net of suspects for vague reasons, like talking about people being in a "dark triangle", and I agreed with that, his response to getting voted looked towny, I got too wrapped up in a theory about him and val shading each other but avoiding actually voting each other. I dunno, was regrettable in a lot of ways but making mistakes is part of the game.

Is there something you're looking for by asking this?

Okay, looking at greeting's reads in Newbie 2081, they don't seem all that different from this game, I think that clears up the one major point of doubt I had. Even had a similar read on kennyk that game seeming similar to their previous one.

In post 651, catboi wrote:

In post 649, StrangeMatter wrote:Speaking of, to everyone on the Thyn wagon, what was the reason for their elimination? I feel like nobody really went through and talked about that, and I didn't really see anything that particularly pinged me.

Also, I absolutely didn't know that.

Implosion had made a point that he was casting a wide net of suspects for vague reasons, like talking about people being in a "dark triangle", and I agreed with that, his response to getting voted looked towny, I got too wrapped up in a theory about him and val shading each other but avoiding actually voting each other. I dunno, was regrettable in a lot of ways but making mistakes is part of the game.

Is there something you're looking for by asking this?

Well, it felt like it was kind of ignored, and I didn't get why it really went through in the first place, getting a better understanding of other people's thought processes from it.

In post 649, StrangeMatter wrote:Speaking of, to everyone on the Thyn wagon, what was the reason for their elimination? I feel like nobody really went through and talked about that, and I didn't really see anything that particularly pinged me.

Also, I absolutely didn't know that.

i was curious to use my role and see the result of my track, but i regretted that decision the moment that Val hammerer Thyn '^'

In post 645, igorsprite wrote:

In post 643, catboi wrote: you've shown basically no desire to take the game seriously, you claim you're here to learn but there's basically no attempts to engage with meaningful dialogue with other players, any attempts to discuss your own reasoning have you barely giving any effort in response, your actions ingame come across as someone who's bored more than anything. you strike me as someone who just isn't interested in the style of game here, period, and are basically impossible to work with. Maybe I'm wrong and have misjudged you but you've shown basically no concern for what anyone else thinks so far. Instead you just treat the game as your own sandbox to screw around in.

that always happens when i'm town, especially when i'm a PR ;.;

i tend to be more townie when i'm scum because i feel that i have an obligation to do and i know who are my partners so i don't need to be worried about who i trust, but when i'm town i just don't know what i have to do because i think that i can't trust anyone and it's even worse when i'm a PR because it's obvious to me that i'm town and i think that the others need to trust me no matter what.

sorry if you are town and i frustrated you, but whatever if you are scum

Rather than apologizing, I'd appreciate it if you tried actually communicating about your reads if you're town. keeping everything to yourself accomplishes nothing and is unfun to deal with. You say you think that you "can't trust anyone", is that true of the game right now?

In post 655, catboi wrote: Rather than apologizing, I'd appreciate it if you tried actually communicating about your reads if you're town. keeping everything to yourself accomplishes nothing and is unfun to deal with. You say you think that you "can't trust anyone", is that true of the game right now?

i town read frogsfrogs, val and implosion because they are saying what i'm thinking, like here 622 and that was uncomfortable because i was sussing frogsfrogs day 1. oh, i town read strangematter too because i think that he is the jailkeeper.

i'm neutral for mafmen

i scum read you and Greeting because you two are accusing me. btw, i want to hammer you because you are changing my read about you and i don't want that to happen

do you think my strategy as scum is to accuse you here when that is very clearly unpopular? That me and my teammate go all in on trying to eliminate the when no one else wants to? The goal as scum is to get townies voted out and I probably wouldn't have tinfoiled you if I didn't think you were legitimately suspect . Let's remember that was what kicked this off in the first place.

Has it occurred to you that scum might want to suck up to you because you're very easily manipulated? That you just treat anyone who takes your side as a friend? Like you'll ride in the car of any stranger who offers you candy?

And, anyway, as a thought exercise: I get voted out today and flip town. How does that affect your read of Greeting?

And, like, again, me doubting your claim cannot possibly have contributed to you . It makes no sense for you to have confidently scumread me enough to do that in the first place

In post 633, catboi wrote:Ultimately if you are town here, frogsfrogs, you're the type of player who gets hyperfocused on a particular worldview where you see someone as scum and view all their actions in the least charitable light while not showing the empathy to consider a possible perspetive where those actions could be coming from town. I think this sort of thing usually just leads to bad tunneling but becomes correctable with enough experience to understand other people's perspectives and how they think about things.

Sure, sure. I'm hearing you on this, and I'm not your reads or developing perspective either. I don't feel as locked into those opinions or as misinformed as you say. I just.. I don't know. I see what I see and I don't know how to make headway in the game if I'm too indecisive / go back and doubt my perceptions about that too much. If you get flipped today and are town, well :I .. I'll have to heed the warning and reread a bunch with that context.

In post 656, igorsprite wrote:

In post 655, catboi wrote: Rather than apologizing, I'd appreciate it if you tried actually communicating about your reads if you're town. keeping everything to yourself accomplishes nothing and is unfun to deal with. You say you think that you "can't trust anyone", is that true of the game right now?

i town read frogsfrogs, val and implosion because they are saying what i'm thinking, like here 622 and that was uncomfortable because i was sussing frogsfrogs day 1. oh, i town read strangematter too because i think that he is the jailkeeper.

i'm neutral for mafmen

i scum read you and Greeting because you two are accusing me. btw, i want to hammer you because you are changing my read about you and i don't want that to happen

and i like you

Sounds from here like you think you have the game solved and I'm not feeling that confident in picking out a full team. You're saying you'd vote MafMen third?

Don't really want to rest any laurels on stale meta but am seeing mafmen-scum ca. 2018 had a tendency toward overconfident TMI townreads ythat I don't think he's exhibited here

In post 660, frogsfrogs wrote:

In post 633, catboi wrote:Ultimately if you are town here, frogsfrogs, you're the type of player who gets hyperfocused on a particular worldview where you see someone as scum and view all their actions in the least charitable light while not showing the empathy to consider a possible perspetive where those actions could be coming from town. I think this sort of thing usually just leads to bad tunneling but becomes correctable with enough experience to understand other people's perspectives and how they think about things.

Sure, sure. I'm hearing you on this, and I'm not

ignoring

your reads or developing perspective either. I don't feel as locked into those opinions or as misinformed as you say. I just.. I don't know. I see what I see and I don't know how to make headway in the game if I'm too indecisive / go back and doubt my perceptions about that too much. If you get flipped today and are town, well :I .. I'll have to heed the warning and reread a bunch with that context.

If it helps, I'm coming back around to you probably being scum and your hemming and hawing being an act!

I'm a little confused here, catboi.

Are you still doubting igors claim, or no? If you are still suggesting you are harbouring doubts, I'll ask you the same question I asked Greeting: Why no kill last night?

I would have thought the scum utility to casting aspirsions on the tracker claim was obvious. If we are in A2, and I think it's pretty obvious we are here, as long as the roleblocker is alive, the tracker is useless as a tracker, and can't prove themselves either. The only utility that PR has currently is as a pseudo-innocent child, and if you can successfully cast aspersions on that too, well...

This reminds an awful lot of the time at the end of day 1 you tried to tell us there was no scum motivation to not concededing a townread, and that was patently false, too.

Stolen.

In post 664, Val89 wrote:I'm a little confused here, catboi.

Are you still doubting igors claim, or no? If you are still suggesting you are harbouring doubts, I'll ask you the same question I asked Greeting: Why no kill last night?

I would have thought the scum utility to casting aspirsions on the tracker claim was obvious. If we are in A2, and I think it's pretty obvious we are here, as long as the roleblocker is alive, the tracker is useless as a tracker, and can't prove themselves either. The only utility that PR has currently is as a pseudo-innocent child, and if you can successfully cast aspersions on that too, well...

This reminds an awful lot of the time at the end of day 1 you tried to tell us there was no scum motivation to not concededing a townread, and that was patently false, too.

I am not voting or pushing igorsprite as scum currently, no. I am not entirely confident in that read but his responses today (irl day, not game day), have overall felt believable

In post 661, frogsfrogs wrote: Sounds from here like you think you have the game solved and I'm not feeling that confident in picking out a full team. You're saying you'd vote MafMen third?

no, i'm just giving more credit to what my town read says. if i put everyone in a metric where 0 is scum and 6 is town, i think that it would be something like this:
1- greeting
2- catboi
3- mafmen
4- val, frogsfrogs and implosion
5- strangematter
6- igorsprite :3

Oh yeah, this is totally true from Val. Igor says he was roleblocked, and if he's scum that means the kill was blocked by jk. If anyone's still trying to call igor's claim fake, what did the other mafia do? What are the lies from scum!igor, what is true, and what are you proposing happened last night?

In post 663, catboi wrote: If it helps, I'm coming back around to you probably being scum and your hemming and hawing being an act!

wow, thanks :)... <3

In post 667, catboi wrote:I am not voting or pushing igorsprite as scum currently, no. I am not entirely confident in that read but his responses today (irl day, not game day), have overall felt believable

I wasn't asking you if you are pushing him as scum currently, I asked if you beleived his tracker claim. Given the fact you say you aren't entirely confident, I would like you to answer the question.

If Igor is scum, why no kill last night? Talk me through how that tallys with Igor being possibly scum for you.

Darnit I was trying to get the page top. I got baited into saying it too early.

There's still one thing that's bugging me about all this Greeting talk, is what is the point Greeting is even trying to do with pushing Igor? Does he still think that Igor is scum, and just isn't thinking about the risks that come with this, because I don't feel like they actually have if I think they are town.

That would make it more plausible to me that they are just newb town and just aren't caring about dumb mistakes and decisions at this point.

Mmmm, I actually think, barring a drastic leveling up in his scumplay in the 3 years since he last played on MS (not impossible but highly unlikely), mafmen is just town here, not fully getting into details just yet but looking over his ISO again I feel good about that one. Will try to explain that one later tonight.


need to take a leap of faith on igorsprite but if I accept that there is a decent likelihood of the team within val/implo/frogs then I really just need to solve within implo/val if I rest on my read that they're unaligned.