Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:56 pm
Good game scum. Thanks for running it Faraday.
I read Empire totally wrong, but now he doesn't get to yell at me anymore when I get paranoid. I just hate that the little twinges of things that bugged me, I ignored, mostly because some of the things he said and did just matched up with his town game and his claim that he doesn't have the balls to do some things as scum. He played the early game to what Tierce and I would expect from town quite well I think. Pless pointed out a couple things to me though that maybe I'll be able to catch if I'm up against him as scum again. I practically have their iso memorized though because I hated his jump on Thor (and should have gone after him for that instead of Tierce, I felt like one of theirs was bs but picked the wrong one), and past day three I was super paranoid of him. But every time I read his iso, I found things I liked. So good job on fooling me like there was no tomorrow.
I felt so guilty every time Nacho referenced my town case on him as reasons for why everyone should town read him though. His slot was actually confirmed scum to me after he put Kanye to L-1 after ooba's fake claim. And I was spamming faraday right after that about how good a job empire did early game.
I still don't understand why Nacho wanted me to come back for Kanye's hammer. I was swimming in paranoia at that point, and a good portion of that was that I couldn't understand how people weren't seeing kanye town-telling like crazy through ooba's push on him and then eventual fake claim.
I really like neighborhoods and I know that some people thought I used my role suboptimally, but I like being able to discuss my reads away from the thread sometimes and wanted to create a sort of hydra with someone I thought was town and could work with. I think that neighborhoods are great scumhunting tools as well, and the day one neighborhood I shared is what helped me keep my resolve that syryana was more than likely town throughout the game. There is a slight possibility that I would have backed down on that once he checked out and lurked if I didn't have that day to talk with him and maybe day three would have gone differently, and in a different game maybe would have helped town. I also credit the neighborhood I shared with MagnaofIllusion in NY146 as being why I realized he was scum. Also, the neighborhood in The Wire was good as well. We might have left a case on the wrong person, but still, we were able to get reads on people in the neighborhood that were helpful. I do think though that there's a point that people should be kinda open about what's in neighborhoods. In Wingate Mansion, I was super frustrated with the people in the other neighborhood because they were being really sketchy and not forthcoming about what was going on, and it turned out that 3/4 of the people there were scum. So yeah.
Benmage - It has nothing to do with the fact that you got your fake guilty wrong *this* time and that it's been a year or so since you got a fake guilty wrong, it's that you did it at all and then compounded it by your behavior. Your fake guilty was the third day in a row that the decision for who to lynch was taken away from town because either roles or shenanigans. Nacho's was his role; I'm not going to fault him for gladiating who he thought was guilty. It was his role; he can use it how he wants. Then the next day, ooba took the lynch away from the town by fake claiming a guilty. Ooba should never have fake claimed a guilty at all and he doesn't get a pass on his action, but there's a reason people aren't yelling at him and saying they'll never play with him again and they are with you, and that has to do with attitude. Ooba came out the next day with a complete mea culpa, and explained it as being a bit impulsive due to paranoia, and you could track where that was growing because you could see where he was coming from due to his continued and detailed analysis on the previous days. It doesn't make his fake claim right at all.
But you? You blamed it on town. You blamed it on Faraday. You blamed it on everyone else but yourself. No one else made you fake claim that guilty, which for the third day in a row took away town's ability to choose for itself. And noone else made you browbeat that fake guilty through even though some of the town knew you were fake claiming and tried to ignore it and scumhunt around it. And in the midst of you making a mistake which helped to cost town, you mocked other players and the mod. Yes, Tierce and I misread Empire. We were completely and utterly fooled by that slot. But, as Tierce pointed out, the day you called her anti-town and useless, she was voting scum while you were fakeclaiming on an innocent. There's a reason scum tried to kill Tierce three times, and it's not because "anti-town and useless."
You might say that nothing you say is personal in games, but damn Benmage if you don't veer that way. Your attitude is what kills it. And probably, most likely, your ego too because you just think your way is right too often. And you know it works sometimes, like in that lylo. That lylo day, you owned, I'm not going to take that away from you. You got Alfred lynched against most of the odds of the game and that was awesome.
And you know what that's great if you feel like you have an ego and are good at this game, but damn figure out a way to work with the people you think are town instead of mocking them. You can't win this game alone.
(although I'm going to just chuckle a bit because the person on day one, I tried to lynch you tried to tell me was town and that I needed to evolve past low hanging fruit to become a better player and that's the person you took out with your final shot. also, i'm stingy with my vote, especially in later days, and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who plays with me often...look at what i'm saying. also also you need to get over scumreading or mocking people who want to take their time in lylo to reread through things and be sure. I get it you probably have your mind made up, but some people are a bit more cautious and that's part of their personality, and they'd rather make an informed decision than rush into one, you need to recognize when it's a playstyle difference and an alignment difference.)
/rant
I should have listened to Syryana's suspicions on cephrir day one but listened to nacho instead. He was one of those people that I never had a clear read on. I called him town a bunch but I knew that scum was in my town reads I just couldn't figure out where. And I couldn't understand people town-reading Titus. The need to post the notes to prove she was reading read scummy to me as did zdenek's jump off of spyrex. His reasonings were complete trash and I hate that I let my resolve on that fade somewhat. One of my biggest weaknesses in mafia is thinking that stronger players/or my townreads have better reasons for me than their reads and letting it affect my own. Which is all right in some instances, but sometimes is detrimental. I'm just going to try to stop being so damn waffly!
I read Empire totally wrong, but now he doesn't get to yell at me anymore when I get paranoid. I just hate that the little twinges of things that bugged me, I ignored, mostly because some of the things he said and did just matched up with his town game and his claim that he doesn't have the balls to do some things as scum. He played the early game to what Tierce and I would expect from town quite well I think. Pless pointed out a couple things to me though that maybe I'll be able to catch if I'm up against him as scum again. I practically have their iso memorized though because I hated his jump on Thor (and should have gone after him for that instead of Tierce, I felt like one of theirs was bs but picked the wrong one), and past day three I was super paranoid of him. But every time I read his iso, I found things I liked. So good job on fooling me like there was no tomorrow.
I felt so guilty every time Nacho referenced my town case on him as reasons for why everyone should town read him though. His slot was actually confirmed scum to me after he put Kanye to L-1 after ooba's fake claim. And I was spamming faraday right after that about how good a job empire did early game.
I still don't understand why Nacho wanted me to come back for Kanye's hammer. I was swimming in paranoia at that point, and a good portion of that was that I couldn't understand how people weren't seeing kanye town-telling like crazy through ooba's push on him and then eventual fake claim.
I really like neighborhoods and I know that some people thought I used my role suboptimally, but I like being able to discuss my reads away from the thread sometimes and wanted to create a sort of hydra with someone I thought was town and could work with. I think that neighborhoods are great scumhunting tools as well, and the day one neighborhood I shared is what helped me keep my resolve that syryana was more than likely town throughout the game. There is a slight possibility that I would have backed down on that once he checked out and lurked if I didn't have that day to talk with him and maybe day three would have gone differently, and in a different game maybe would have helped town. I also credit the neighborhood I shared with MagnaofIllusion in NY146 as being why I realized he was scum. Also, the neighborhood in The Wire was good as well. We might have left a case on the wrong person, but still, we were able to get reads on people in the neighborhood that were helpful. I do think though that there's a point that people should be kinda open about what's in neighborhoods. In Wingate Mansion, I was super frustrated with the people in the other neighborhood because they were being really sketchy and not forthcoming about what was going on, and it turned out that 3/4 of the people there were scum. So yeah.
Benmage - It has nothing to do with the fact that you got your fake guilty wrong *this* time and that it's been a year or so since you got a fake guilty wrong, it's that you did it at all and then compounded it by your behavior. Your fake guilty was the third day in a row that the decision for who to lynch was taken away from town because either roles or shenanigans. Nacho's was his role; I'm not going to fault him for gladiating who he thought was guilty. It was his role; he can use it how he wants. Then the next day, ooba took the lynch away from the town by fake claiming a guilty. Ooba should never have fake claimed a guilty at all and he doesn't get a pass on his action, but there's a reason people aren't yelling at him and saying they'll never play with him again and they are with you, and that has to do with attitude. Ooba came out the next day with a complete mea culpa, and explained it as being a bit impulsive due to paranoia, and you could track where that was growing because you could see where he was coming from due to his continued and detailed analysis on the previous days. It doesn't make his fake claim right at all.
But you? You blamed it on town. You blamed it on Faraday. You blamed it on everyone else but yourself. No one else made you fake claim that guilty, which for the third day in a row took away town's ability to choose for itself. And noone else made you browbeat that fake guilty through even though some of the town knew you were fake claiming and tried to ignore it and scumhunt around it. And in the midst of you making a mistake which helped to cost town, you mocked other players and the mod. Yes, Tierce and I misread Empire. We were completely and utterly fooled by that slot. But, as Tierce pointed out, the day you called her anti-town and useless, she was voting scum while you were fakeclaiming on an innocent. There's a reason scum tried to kill Tierce three times, and it's not because "anti-town and useless."
You might say that nothing you say is personal in games, but damn Benmage if you don't veer that way. Your attitude is what kills it. And probably, most likely, your ego too because you just think your way is right too often. And you know it works sometimes, like in that lylo. That lylo day, you owned, I'm not going to take that away from you. You got Alfred lynched against most of the odds of the game and that was awesome.
And you know what that's great if you feel like you have an ego and are good at this game, but damn figure out a way to work with the people you think are town instead of mocking them. You can't win this game alone.
(although I'm going to just chuckle a bit because the person on day one, I tried to lynch you tried to tell me was town and that I needed to evolve past low hanging fruit to become a better player and that's the person you took out with your final shot. also, i'm stingy with my vote, especially in later days, and that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who plays with me often...look at what i'm saying. also also you need to get over scumreading or mocking people who want to take their time in lylo to reread through things and be sure. I get it you probably have your mind made up, but some people are a bit more cautious and that's part of their personality, and they'd rather make an informed decision than rush into one, you need to recognize when it's a playstyle difference and an alignment difference.)
/rant
I should have listened to Syryana's suspicions on cephrir day one but listened to nacho instead. He was one of those people that I never had a clear read on. I called him town a bunch but I knew that scum was in my town reads I just couldn't figure out where. And I couldn't understand people town-reading Titus. The need to post the notes to prove she was reading read scummy to me as did zdenek's jump off of spyrex. His reasonings were complete trash and I hate that I let my resolve on that fade somewhat. One of my biggest weaknesses in mafia is thinking that stronger players/or my townreads have better reasons for me than their reads and letting it affect my own. Which is all right in some instances, but sometimes is detrimental. I'm just going to try to stop being so damn waffly!
)