In post 6699, Cheery Dog wrote:Scam kill whoever they were meant to be giving a fruit to, that town member is then unable to report.
(Would then be able to get an easy mislynch if the scums were actually next to each other, and this plan was thought as how it happened by town.)
That still gets them caught
ABCD are playing, A is scum and they are going in a circle
A kills B.
C, D, A get fruit
Only way a kill happened outside of a false report was A killing.
So A is forced to fake not getting anything, so they can turn it into a flip.
I'd assume all the actions in a setup like that would be simultaneous unless a) otherwise stated, or b) it was designed by zoraster (or another mod who consistently and intentionally uses an action resolution method other than NAR).
There are 9 reagents, which are publicly disclosed, and each player is randomly given a role that collects a specific reagent (including the mafia), and there are four cauldrons (A, B, C, and D).
The central mechanic is that during each night phase, all players may put their reagent into one of the four cauldrons as a night action. The mafia does the same, and may also corrupt up to two of the cauldrons as a factional action.
Every possible pair of two reagents has an effect associated with it (e.g. Mossflower+Eye of newt has the cop ability), the entire set of which are publicly disclosed at the beginning of the game. At daybreak, any cauldron that has at least two reagents in it will activate. Those with more than two reagents will have extraneous reagents removed randomly until two remain. Any targets of the cauldron effects will be randomly chosen (possibly with townward or scumward bias depending on the effect), and the results of the cauldrons' actions are publicly announced. Corrupted cauldrons will have a different, more anti-town version of the effect (e.g. Insane cop instead of sane cop), which is also publicly disclosed, of course.
Looks extremely favorable to scum. Town needs 50% accuracy without any PR and a strong scum voting block. That's not going to end well for town. Adding 2 VT will probably make it a bit more balanced.
Hmm, remember when Fire & Ice had no crosskills? And how that was ridiculously scum sided? Well, what if you combined Fire & Ice with Double Day?
Double Day Fire & Ice
2 Fire Mafia
2 Ice Mafia
1 Doctor
8 Townies
No crosskills, Mafia kills cancel each other out, and 2 lynches per day.
Balanced, y/n?
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can you demonstrate a set of events that leads to a scum win? I'm not seeing a way...
I derped, this is actually a pretty tight setup
Scumhunters 8P was a thought experiment by me and Hito to see how many scum you could fit in a setup while still making sure there would be relevant information from each lynch. It's very close to perfectly mathematically balanced.
I'd argue it was townsided, but this was the entire nexus of the discussion that spawned the setup.
That which is done out of love always takes place beyond good and evil
I want to look into adding the following three setups as trial runs:
Baby Genius but with 2 more VT Farmer's Marker Sharing is Caring has potential but needs refinement on how things resolve when more actions are submitted than shots remain.
I want to give +2 VT to Masons and Monks since town has been just ripped apart in all runs of it, even though it is a unique spin on the ever popular Friends and Enemies.
If anyone has thoughts let me know. I will be trying to make the changes, adding setups and doing general clean up in the following weekends.
Any suggestions on Sharing is Caring resolutions? Could just prioritize Cop over Jailkeeper over Vig, but if that's kind of eh I'm up for suggestions.
I need thoughts on whether scum should have daytalk in We Need A Fifth. I gave them daytalk when I ran it, but I don't know what would be more balanced.
Have all fail and give that team a strike per extra shot attempted. 3 strikes and they lose a shot.
This would assuming all three tried to use their power nights 1 & 2, would still have a shot to decide what to do with night 3, which would cease to exist if just two of them tried that night.
Huh. That's...interesting? I was going to say Jailer is much weaker than the others, but I guess it could work if used as a doctor. (At the very least that's how it's likely to be effective, whereas cop should always be using their role)
In post 6713, BBmolla wrote:Any suggestions on Sharing is Caring resolutions? Could just prioritize Cop over Jailkeeper over Vig, but if that's kind of eh I'm up for suggestions.
I kinda like the suggestion of CD where the result becomes "all actions fail" when more shots are attempted than are left.
In post 6719, BBmolla wrote:Obviously Cop is the strongest early game, and if I were Vig/Jailkeeper I may no action just to get as many cop reports as possible.
As game winds down though Jailkeeper becomes a lot better.
See this again assumes that town will be smart about things like this. You balance for correct play, just assuming it will occur is a bit of a reach.
Well, that doesn't mean the power roles don't have to use all shots night 1. Vig could be certain someone is scum, and vig them, one scum dead (assuming no doc protection on that player). Jailkeeper could jail another, no mafia kill and 50/50 that person is protected town/blocked scum. Cop could then catch the last mafia.
The game could technically be over in two days if people actioned correctly. I think on paper, giving Cop most reports will be most beneficial, but I don't think using Vig/Jailkeeper early is throwing.
I don't think I exactly follow what you mean though, what exactly are you proposing there is an issue with
I think you need to replace the doctor or watcher with something a bit stronger for the mafia. The game can end in 2 days with proper town actions and the mafia can't really stop that at the moment. I'd say replace the watcher with a framer. The watcher and rolecop essentially preform the same function in this set-up.
In post 6721, BBmolla wrote:Well, that doesn't mean the power roles don't have to use all shots night 1. Vig could be certain someone is scum, and vig them, one scum dead (assuming no doc protection on that player). Jailkeeper could jail another, no mafia kill and 50/50 that person is protected town/blocked scum. Cop could then catch the last mafia
Im just saying how many times would you trust both the JK and Vig if all roles were alive to actually not use their actions? There are some setups like Hard Boiled where town plays directly opposite of what they should do from a numerical standpoint at times because its "less fun".
You balance for town playing correct, I just don't trust PRs not to be selfish here.
T-Bone wrote:I think you need to replace the doctor or watcher with something a bit stronger for the mafia. The game can end in 2 days with proper town actions and the mafia can't really stop that at the moment. I'd say replace the watcher with a framer. The watcher and rolecop essentially preform the same function in this set-up.
Well any game with a vig can end on day two with "proper" actions. I could see trying a framer instead of watcher here though.
I don't think either way has as significant as an advantage as Hard Boiled does. If all use abilities night 1, you could technically win in two days. I would save the shots for the cop, but I don't think it increases win percentage as much as it does in Hard Boiled.
I disagree that Watcher and Rolecop play the same function. I wouldn't mind throwing in a Godfather over the Rolecop, I'd much prefer to put the innocents in question than the guilties
Edit: I do know the site is low on Framer setups though, so if we wanted to put it in instead of Godfather just for that, I'd be okay with it.
