Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Fishythefish]

Wait, hang on a minute. Lurking day one? No I didn't. Day two is when I've been a bit inactive, day one I posted lots.

Jeremy, The Tao of Geek

[Tarhalindur]

Shadehawk, Antihero for Hire

Riceballtail, please provide a link to your claimed comic.

[Riceballtail]

http://www.silentkimbly.com/

For what it's worth, I wasn't familiar with it either.

[Vino]

Tar, I hope you plan to answer all of the questions directed at you when the claiming is over.

[Tarhalindur]

Also what is a BD? Doctor that kills the target?

Backup Doc. Kise hasn't answered my question to him on that point, either.

Vote: Kise

.

Why bring up backup doc at all?

Dominic Deegan falls very firmly at the front of the lynch-on-sight list, and while the conclusion is a little shakier than it was yesterday - Something Positive fell on the edge of the list and came up town - it's not shaky enough for me to discard it.

How would you have felt about Evil Atom? Why is Dominic Deegan lynch on sight?

1) I'd probably have considered Evil Atom scum, but NOT in the same scum group as a Dominic Deegan scum.
2) I will NOT elaborate on why Dominic Deegan is such a bad comic claim until after most, preferably all of the claims are in. (Though I will admit that I forgot one comic that is probably more of an obvscum claim than Deegan is).

Percy: That reason 3 for supporting the name/origin massclaim is pretty damn scummy.

Why? It's a possibility that should be addressed. If we have four or five pairs of people from the same comic, that's something that we should know. If there is only one or two pairs, then they would warrant attention. It could be used to clear someone in a pair if their partner was lying and flipped as such, as well.

And I find it a bit rich that you would call this scummy when it was you who originally proposed a massroleclaim for no good reason that I can see, and ignored me when I asked you about your motives.

I'll claim.

I am

Sam

, from Sam and Fuzzy.[/quote]

1) While it's a valid consideration in a vacuum, it's the kind of consideration you shouldn't bring up before the massclaim is over. No reason to give the scum information about the setup that they might not otherwise have, especially if it could help them avoid counterclaim. There's a very specific scenario I had in mind, but I'll elaborate only after all but one or two players have nameclaimed.

2) As to those motives for massclaim: With 2x Cop and a Vig dead (the three roles most likely to confirm a player town) and a protective role outed, the potential upshot of breaking the setup in half (and catching any scum who misclaim, either through a bad role name/comic or a bad choice of role) outweighed the downside of potentially revealing power roles (there's a more specific reason that I decided that this was the case. but I will not elaborate at this time as there's no reason to just tell scum something they might figure out on their own - for now, know that there's a reason why I decided it was time to massclaim immediately after Mufasa softclaimed protective role, rather than at the beginning of the day).

Keep in mind that I trust my analysis of setups (especially on balance concerns) a HELL of a lot more than I do my scumhunting - Mafia 75 and Medieval Mafia are good examples of how I was able to ensure the town win by breaking the setup in half, despite mediocre scumhunting in each and VERY poor play otherwise in Mafia 75. (Medieval is also a good example of the other potential useful effect of massclaims: stupid scum getting themselves counterclaimed.)

Well a lot of people think I'm scummy so I suppose I'll go next.

I'm Dante from Sheldon Comics.

I think Percy and SC and SensFan should go, and then everybody else in no particular order, since this isn't a real claim the order's not so important.

Tarhalindur

, what about Deegan is lynch on sight? I'm not familiar with that comic. Also, you never answered my question about Riceballtail. I really want an answer to this one, as it's the first questionable thing I can pin you as having said.

Concerning shared comics, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that some special roles (lovers or masons or something) would make it feasible that two people are from the same comic. Thus I don't think that two people from one comic must mean one is scum.

1) Please provide a link to your comic.

2) I will explain why I consider Deegan a scummy comic claim when claims are done.

3) Riceballtail: RBT caught my interest a few days back, due to play that is, in a vacuum, scummy.

However, I've found that a lot of things that are scummy in a vacuum may be town tells when a player's meta is concerned, so I went back and did a total read on Riceballtail.

The play we've seen currently is utterly typical for Riceballtail as town; it's also not consistent with RBT's play as scum, with the caveat that Riceballtail has been scum so rarely that defining a consistent scum meta for RBT is difficult. (Riceballtail's historical tells are either votehopping or - more consistently - IIoA., and I'm not confident in calling either on RBT at this point.)

Fairly typical examples of Riceballtail town play:
Cubic Mafia
South Park Mafia
Streets of Verona Mafia

Riceballtail scum games:
Legends of Literature Mafia (Mafia, showed clear signs of IIoA)
Sushi Mafia (Mafia w/ no kill in multiscum game, votehopped quite a bit.)
Mafia 79: "The Amish Mafia" (Mafia, clear votehopping, may also reflect an early change in RBT playstyle)
Mini Normal 656: Mafia in Normaltown (Mafia, some evidence of votehopping, appears more aggressive than normal RBT-town, may be intermediate playstyle)
Mafia 85: Murder at the Bus Stop (Serial Killer, play intermediate between town-RBT and votehopping scum RBT)

Overall, RBT's play here looks more similar to RBT's usual town play than to RBT's scum play.

[Tarhalindur]

Tar, I hope you plan to answer all of the questions directed at you when the claiming is over.

Funny, I was already writing the answer post. (Except for the question that will not be answered until after nameclaim is done.)

[Tarhalindur]

I'm Gilgamesh Wulfenbach of Girl Genius

Vino, your thoughts on this?

[Vino]

Ah yeah thanks it's all good, didn't realize a response was already coming.

That Gilgamesh claim is interesting indeed. Gilgamesh is actually a borderline character in that comic, he is the son of the antagonist (who thinks he is the protagonist (don't they all?)) but he is more idealistic and falls in love with the protagonist, so he could be argued as either town or scum. I think it's a null tell, but if it were his father Klaus it would be lynch on sight. Any other opinions I might have about it (and the other roles) probably aren't wise to express at this point, (especially since the MC is not done,) but essentially don't amount to anything definitive one way or another.

So your town read on RBT is entirely based on meta?

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

[Mufasa]

I am Mr. Jinx of Starslip

[Mufasa]

On blackberry limited writing and access

[Sajin]

Annarchy of penny arcade; penny-arcade.com

[Tarhalindur]

Apologies for impending stream of consciousness:

Annarchy of penny arcade; penny-arcade.com

[streamofconsciousness]
Hmm. Penny Arcade. Suspected a Penny Arcade was coming, which is annoying because I don't read the damn thing... still, that's better than the three or so webcomics I've never run across before that have been claimed... okay, who the hell is Annarchy? Gabe I know, Tycho I know, Annarchy I've never heard of, and TVTropes has no references... okay, where the hell is Penny Arcade's cast page... meh, maybe keyword search will work well enough... wait, search "Annarchy" reveals three Penny Arcade comics that mention this character EVER? In TEN YEARS? And the most recent comes from 2006?... Another keyword search using alternate names "Anne" and "Anne Claire" reveal no other comics with this character?... I'm supposed to believe this isn't a transparent falseclaim why, exactly?
[/streamofconsciousness]

TL:DR - I find it doubtful that such a minor character from Penny Arcade would be in the game unless she got memed and I've never heard of it (for reference, Man in a Hat is a recurring character in a comic with few if any major characters AND has at least some meme power to his credit).

[Vino]

Another comic that I'm an expert on! "Annarchy" is the online name of is Tycho's niece Anne Claire. Here's the Wikipedia entry. She's a gamer and appears rarely. I laughed when I read Sajin's post. I wouldn't doubt that it's an authentic claim, because Dante from Sheldon isn't a very common character and in fact hasn't appeared in the strip for a while. It's definitely not a scummy character, it'd be town through and through, if the claim is true. (Rhymes comin' at you.) It's certainly an odd choice for Penny Arcade when Gabe and Tycho and the CTS and Div and the Fruit Fucker are more prolific, but I think this could just mean that Gorrad is a very hard core PA reader.

[Fishythefish]

Here is a link to my comic, The Tao of Geek[/url]

[Tarhalindur]

Ah yeah thanks it's all good, didn't realize a response was already coming.

That Gilgamesh claim is interesting indeed. Gilgamesh is actually a borderline character in that comic, he is the son of the antagonist (who thinks he is the protagonist (don't they all?)) but he is more idealistic and falls in love with the protagonist, so he could be argued as either town or scum. I think it's a null tell, but if it were his father Klaus it would be lynch on sight. Any other opinions I might have about it (and the other roles) probably aren't wise to express at this point, (especially since the MC is not done,) but essentially don't amount to anything definitive one way or another.

Heh. I know exactly who Gil is - Girl Genius is on my top 5 favorite webcomics of all time (and the only one of these to be claimed), courtesy of a combination of convoluted plot and MAD SCIENCE!

It's also the first comic I thought of as a possible neutral (in particular, if we see any sign of a cult running around then Head Honcho needs to die - slaver wasps, anyone?)

My read, especially given Gil claim, is that Honcho is either town or neutral lying about which Girl Genius character he is, with an outside chance of scum.

Other thoughts on claims so far:
- Santos's early claim today (Riff, Sluggy Freelance, vanilla) looks much shakier to me than it once did, though I would need at least a few fullclaims to be sure.
- Sotty7 needs closer analysis... Richard (from the same comic) is a pretty damn memorable character and might actually make sense for that "chuckshot" kill.

So your town read on RBT is entirely based on meta?

http://www.sheldoncomics.com/

Like all my reads, it's primarily based on meta, but that meta is based on examples. I provided several examples of RBT town games; I can show how his posts here are not inconsistent with his town play if necessary. (Side note: RBT's defense here is somewhat scummy by RBT standards, but not enough to affect my read.)

[Tarhalindur]

Another comic that I'm an expert on! "Annarchy" is the online name of is Tycho's niece Anne Claire. Here's the Wikipedia entry. She's a gamer and appears rarely. I laughed when I read Sajin's post. I wouldn't doubt that it's an authentic claim, because Dante from Sheldon isn't a very common character and in fact hasn't appeared in the strip for a while. It's definitely not a scummy character, it'd be town through and through, if the claim is true. (Rhymes comin' at you.) It's certainly an odd choice for Penny Arcade when Gabe and Tycho and the CTS and Div and the Fruit Fucker are more prolific, but I think this could just mean that Gorrad is a very hard core PA reader.

Wait... Wikipedia left some of the character entries on webcomics standing?

*glances*... Ah, so she's had more than three strips, and is in fact a fairly frequent minor character. I was mistaken. (Note: if Sajin dies, flips scum, and isn't Annarchy, you've pretty much signed your death warrant.)

[Vino]

Oh, then sorry for lecturing you on a topic you're already knowledgeable of. I'm not sure that Honcho is familiar with Girl Genius, and if he was Lucrezia Mongfish (ie cult/slaver wasps) and he had to find another claim, I doubt he'd pick Gilgamesh when Agatha is just as convenient, and in fact pretty much the same character as Lucrezia. I don't see him being brazen enough to pick Gilgamesh. That's dipping into WIFOM territory though. And there's still the issue of that death ray which, despite being at tajo's feet in the night scene, is definitely not an Evil Atom implement, so it still bugs me.

And pleeeeeeeease don't bring up cults, you're going to jynx a good game.

You seemed to indicate Mufasa's claim was important to you and now you have it -- what say you?

(Still waiting for Sinfest.)

[Vino]

(Note: if Sajin dies, flips scum, and isn't Annarchy, you've pretty much signed your death warrant.)

What? I didn't mean to say that it means Sajin's town. I just mean I don't think it means he's necessarily lying.

[Head_Honcho]

I hope someone's Jon Arbuckle from the classic Garfield minus Garfield

[Percy]

I understand and agree he needs to explain better, but you tried to say that no one talked about naïve vs sane and I was pointing out that wasn't true. I really don't see how I answered for him, I just debated the fact you said it was only brought up after the lynch.

You misunderstood, not me. Empking said something about naive speculation occurring,

which in turn

made him more likely to believe L_C. He asked a question about sanity, and was the first and only one to do it before the hammer. This is not the same thing at all.

Because if you were town you wouldn't need to make up a reason why you hammered. That's my thought process anyway.

I didn't make anything up. I made an honest, stupid mistake.

Korlash is doing some good posting, but I don't see his angle when it comes to your hammer. That does give me some pause for thought.

I re-read Korlash, and I see his angle as fairly null. He saw SC and others pushing a case against me that was poorly formulated and establishes no grounds as to why I'm scum. Could be a scumploy, but could equally be an honest assessment.

Also, this quote is some major fence-sitting.

His initial vote on LC was wishy washy and he did seem to lurk during day one, only posting when others called him out.

I don't think the second point is accurate at all.

Also what is a BD? Doctor that kills the target?

Backup Doc. Kise hasn't answered my question to him on that point, either.

Vote: Kise

.

Why bring up backup doc at all?

That's exactly what I'm saying, Tar. It's why I voted him.

1) I'd probably have considered Evil Atom scum, but NOT in the same scum group as a Dominic Deegan scum.

Well, I guess I'll just have to wait for you to elaborate on this one. Just keep in mind that I've noted everywhere where you said that you will elaborate, and I will hold you to it.

[Percy]

Still to claim:

Tzeentch
Korlash
Santos
roflcopter
Sironigous
SensFan
ZazieR

@Empking: Can you answer my questions, please?

[Sotty7]

I'm Cale of looking for group

And my link..

http://www.lfgcomic.com/

I actually find Fishy pretty scummy too. His initial vote on LC was wishy washy and he did seem to lurk during day one, only posting when others called him out.

Pretty good reasons. My vote on LC was unimpressive, and my stance needed the rethink it got. My access this game has been very variable, and often not as much as I would like, but I think I have comitted to positions and arguments, which is kind of what lurking is supposed to avoid. Lurking is also very much not part of my scum-meta.

The fact you know and admit that lurking isn't apart of your scum meta makes it meaningless to me because it is easy to adjust to. I'm not big on meta personally. Harmful meta's that I have experience of is one thing, but players I know to be good I also give them the respect of being able to twist their meta to suit their needs.

And perhaps lurking was too harsh of a word. You felt absent and somewhat reactionary to me at times. I will be looking over it all again.

I understand and agree he needs to explain better, but you tried to say that no one talked about naïve vs sane and I was pointing out that wasn't true. I really don't see how I answered for him, I just debated the fact you said it was only brought up after the lynch.

You misunderstood, not me. Empking said something about naive speculation occurring,

which in turn

made him more likely to believe L_C. He asked a question about sanity, and was the first and only one to do it before the hammer. This is not the same thing at all.

Hmm ok, I see what you mean.

Also Percy, you found it suspect that I came into the game without commenting on any of the other suspects, but what about the other replacements?

Kise came in started posting at the start of day two with just a vote on Santos commenting on nothing else.
Sajin came in at the end of day one and just happened to put LC at lynch-1 after the counter claim commenting on nothing else.
RTB is a little better, makes a comment about the santos wagon, but in his next post votes for rolf commenting on nothing else.

Are these players also suspect to you?

[Vino]

Still to claim:

Santos

Er, actually...

[Tarhalindur]

1) I'd probably have considered Evil Atom scum, but NOT in the same scum group as a Dominic Deegan scum.

Well, I guess I'll just have to wait for you to elaborate on this one. Just keep in mind that I've noted everywhere where you said that you will elaborate, and I will hold you to it.

Might as well answer that part 2 first: I've been assuming for a while (since qwints claimed) that if we have different scumgroups then they have different flavor; the opening flavor suggested that one of those groups was likely a villainous character group (in which case they're unlikely to claim their true names, hence why I'm revealing this now), though I had considerably more uncertainty before the Evil Atom reveal. (I suspect L_C could have detected this group at minimum, since fourth wall breaking is a good way to determine whether a character is villainous.) Note: If Sotty is scum, she's likely in this group.

I'll fully explain the flavor behind what I suspect is the second scumgroup (the one qwints could detect if he was sane) tomorrow or Saturday - the cliffs notes version is that this one is composed of scummy webcomics, not scummy characters.

Also what is a BD? Doctor that kills the target?

Backup Doc. Kise hasn't answered my question to him on that point, either.

Vote: Kise

.

Why bring up backup doc at all?

That's exactly what I'm saying, Tar. It's why I voted him.

Ah. That makes sense, then. *Digs up Kise posts in question*

FoS Sajin

& anyone else who wants to comic-claim, but not nameclaim. Bearing in mind that villains come from these comics as well, it does no good to merely mention what comic our characters are from. I suppose we'll wait for Mufasa to come back and let him kick it off... or I can go 1st and him 2nd. Doesn't matter; I'm ready to narrow down the suspect list.

I get the feeling Mufasa is a BD. Not that I expect him to confirm or deny, but you all should consider that it's possible for him to be more than a protective-role. And for what it's worth, he's acted this fishy while townie before, so it's likely that he's pro-town as someone else already said. He's damn sure an easy (mis)lynch.

If Sens or Tzeentch flip scum, then the other is scum as well (and Santos' replacement is pro-town). There was no reason for lurker-Tzeentch to act like Santos was causing him such grief when he's barely in the thread. So far, I don't see where Tzeentch has commented on what others have said, so... again, no reason for him to make a big stink about Santos, if for no other reason than to get Santos off Sens' back.

Percy has not suggested anything (today/D2) to advance the scum's objective, but has said some awfully scummy things, hence my vote. I believe, however, in the event that Percy is pro-town, that scum-Korlash could be banking on his flip so he could appear more townie for defending him. On the otherhand, they could both be partners. I'd suggest Korlash lynched before Percy just to assess their connection.

Unvote; Vote: Korlash

In the unlikely but still possible scenario that Lammont is indeed a town cop, the doc should still protect qwints since its very likely he is the town cop.

Yeah.. *smh*

Okay, yeah, that doesn't make sense.

However, now that I look at this more closely... there's some things that are a hell of a lot more scummy here.

First, look at that attack on Percy. He says that Percy "isn't advancing a scum agenda" but that he still supports a Percy wagon because "Percy has said some awfully scummy things"... that's a bad attack, townies have been known to say scummy things on occasion (case in point: L_C). Moreover, either I'm misreading badly or Kise is saying that he doesn't see Percy's behavior as being driven by scum motives; the latter is grounds to CLEAR a player, no matter how scummy some of their words are.

This, granted, could be the result of misguided town as opposed to scum trying to push through a mislynch while distancing from it... but let's look at that Korlash attack, specifically the "let's lynch Korlash first

to look for connections

" part. Why are we proposing this, exactly? Your first argument against Korlash, while valid (not compelling, IMO, but valid) requires that Korlash's play towards Percy be a null tell; how do you propose to judge possible connections from a null tell?

The most damning thing here, however, is the first paragraph. Kise's argument that just comic claiming would be "no good" is utterly, utterly wrong (and I knew that when I proposed the massclaim); while a pure comic claim would not have outed any scum from a group composed of villains from otherwise normal webcomics, it would find any scum from a scummy webcomic should they either not realize their webcomic was scummy or misclaim. (Full massclaim would stand a better chance of outing both, hence why I pushed it.)

The question is, why ignore this? Could Kise have just not realized that some webcomics were scummy? Or is Kise scum from the hypothetical scummy webcomic faction, who thought he could out the other group this way with no increased risk to himself?...

Grrr... WHATEVER!

I'm Donovan Deegan, somehow related to

Dominic Deegan

; main character of the comic we're from.

I suggest we get a nameclaim from Mufasa next, then the most suspicious players. Let them go first.

OH WAIT.

Unvote, Vote: Kise
HoS: SensFan

Right now, I'd like either a Kise or SensFan lynch (the two are now about equal on my scumdar) - vote goes to Kise since I've seen no momentum for the SensFan lynch (why is that, anyways?).

Vino and Percy should start thinking about fullclaiming - they're the top two in votes, and deadline is Sunday with a player base that appears inactive on weekends (I would personally like to see a Percy claim at the moment, but that's more because I suspect I can break the setup open with a Percy claim or death reveal and I have the nagging feeling that I'm living on borrowed time in this game). If we can, I'd also like to force at least one of Kise/SensFan to fullclaim by Saturday.

(As an aside, my gut says that SensFan is probably not in the same group as Flameaxe/Kise. That certainly doesn't rule out him being scum.)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Hi guys, I just replaced Santos, who I am told was a douchebag. Let me reread over the weekend, and I'll try to post some stuff after that.