Mafiascum.net

oh don't think we should revive vezok, or at least not yet, tracker could be powerful nearer to endgame would clear townies and stuffs.

Do to some discussion in last nights BS and ythills flip I'm going to go this way.

Ooh.

COME OUT AND PLAY FATE <3

Agar might be scum. Hmm.

LMP is more prob town than before even, I think. Will have to discuss with my other half probs.

A Gaggle of Geese wrote:oh don't think we should revive vezok, or at least not yet, tracker could be powerful nearer to endgame would clear townies and stuffs.

I think revive vezok is good. Not sure when the best time to do so. I know when I modded a game with a revive method the PR had info when he died and bring him back early helped the town nail one scum (he was the hider that game and died hiding behind scum).
I would say bringing back Vezo early would be best for info.

On a side note: Holy shit GG and I agree with Llama from Backstage talks.

A Gaggle of Geese wrote:LMP is more prob town than before even, I think. Will have to discuss with my other half probs.

I don't know as much. A few things LMP stated makes me wary. His there is a probability of at least one scum backstage and both him and Ythill thought WC was scum.

Hmm, well if we bring him back we probably force the scum to kill him off. AND it acts as a double lynch, I think maybe sit on it for today, and wait for tomorrow, but I've not overly thought about it.

farside22 wrote:

A Gaggle of Geese wrote:LMP is more prob town than before even, I think. Will have to discuss with my other half probs.

I don't know as much. A few things LMP stated makes me wary. His there is a probability of at least one scum backstage and both him and Ythill thought WC was scum.

I'd expect him to at least differ in opinion on Ythill w/r/t the editing thing (which sort of struck me as odd anyway, but eh), it's not solid, but he's looked reasonably town anyway.

@GG: What are your thoughts with Ythill voting for OMGL but then doing an about face once it was at L-1? You still have that same read on OMGL?

I need to do some thinking here, thats two flips I didnt see coming. Oddly enough the ghost flip makes me fall back on thinking AGar was scum quite a bit. Want to take a look at what Ythill said and see if that changes anything that I saw from WC.

DAILY EXAMINATION

Let's start with our Mafioso.

#0 - Says he wants to be revived, was a Town-Tell to me, Elects himself, Llama and Seacore, no way would he elect 2 of his buddies along with him, but I wouldn't be surprised if he elected one along with him. Voted WrathChild under a BS "Scumtell". I didn't think this made him scum, but I knew at the time it was Bullshit.

#1 - Has a nice discussion with Llama, wasn't trying to distance himself from him, although he hid his talk with Llama inside a post with 3 more conversations, but he always has various conversations going at once in one post so I may be overthinking it. You can tell from this post that Ghost and Wrath are most likely not his partner. Not so sure about Llama and Far.

#2 - Asks for people to pile on Wrath, finds LL scummy for what I assume is him questioning Wrath saying his schedule, gives me a Townie Brownie, buddying up with me because I knew he was saying BS? Or just condescendingly giving me a small brownie for not suspecting him? I assume the later, considering I would probably not suspect him in a lifetime.

#3 - Gives more BS reasoning on Wrath being scum. I am 60% sure Wrath isn't buddies with Wrath. If he's scum, he's probably in another team. Makes a good argument against Ghost that was very logical, regardless of the allignments of both users.

#4 - Another Bullshit reasoning on Wrath, I'l say it again: This is not bussing.

#5 - Asks for a Bandwagon, if not Wraith, then someone. Kinda logic. I agree with him.

#6 - Votes me when a big BW is building on me while saying I'm his townread, I also found this weird, but again, probably because he gave me a Townie Brownie, didn't think much of it.

#7 - Says he might be interested in LL, argues more about BW's

#8 - Asks for a vote on ani

#9 - Acts kinda weird with OGML, questioning him, I can't help but think Ythill is not being nearly oppurtunistic enough against OGML at this point, this would be a great BW to start, yet only later did he start thinking about him. And I think he was one of the first to get out of that BW. Will confirm this later.

#10 - Comments on L-3.

#11 - Thinks Farside is town, I agree.

#12 - Another nice interaction with OGML, votes animorpherv.

#13 - Comments on quote tags.

#14 - Puts me, Seacore, Llama and Farside under town, I think he buddied up with Seacore, gave a honest opinion on farside as to look Townier, not sure about Llama, another reason to be curious on him. This interaction with OGML is also weird, but it makes me think he ain't buddies with OGML because he's not distancing himself and actually going straight to him.

#15 - Gives good reasoning on why he thinks Apok is scum.

#16 - Good logic against Ghost.

#17 - Good logic.

#18 - For the first time, talks directly with Llama, talking about Ghostlin, null. Says he had no intention of letting me go past L-2, I wonder... Probably true, it'd be suspicious if he let me die after he said I was Towny.

#19 - Thinks about Wrath again.

#20 - Very curious answer to Wrath fearing Ythill, I am now 99% sure Wrath is not buddies with Ythill.

#21 - Answers to LL's suspicion of me, drops a small bomb in case he wants to lynch me anytime soon.

#22 - Votes Ghostlin, nothing wrong.

#23 - Pressures Wrath

#24 - Another curious answer to Wrath fearing him.

#25 - Says Ani is scummier than Ghost, I didn't think Ani was THAT weird at this point, plus, Ythill never gave good arguments on why Ani is scummier than Ghostlin (then again, he was never asked) and gave great arguments against Ghostlin, I can't help but wonder if he's leaving a small FOS on his Mafbuddy to look townier if he's lynched sometime later.

#26 - Now this is a very interesting thing even I would have probably seen if I examinated. Ythill suspects LL based on the fact that he suspected Wrath on scheduling, but now agrees with him. This also makes me curious about LL, plus, before, Ythill put LL under "People of Interest". Heh.

#27 - Interacts with Llama, but keeps saying he's honorary Town.

#28 - Attacks Ghostlin personally.

#29 - Apologizes for the point above. Is helpful.

#30 - Talks to Saint and asks him to vote someone else. Might be partners.

#31 - Says he doesn't explain his town-tells, heh. Turns to OGML, even though the last time they talked, he said he was a weird fellow that also gave towntells. This makes me suspect OGML.

#32 - Derp

#33 - Should have also noticed that Ythill didn't mind me voting to free myself from a lynch but minded Ghostlin doing the same.

#34 - This post makes me believe Gaggle is Town or at least not partners with Ythill, in the way he talked with him about his versus with farside.

#35 - Makes me think about sacrificing myself to save him, another way to give a nice Townread.

#36 - Goes back to Ghostlin quickly, this is making me see OGML scummier and scummier.

#37 - Another Town-read on him because of this post, and makes me think GG is Town again.

#38 - Heh, curious interaction between MoI here, where MoI asks Ythill how he knows this setup favours Town, he gives BS answers, another thing I should have noticed.

#39 - Back to OGML, heh...

#40 - Explains why he doesn't want to kill Llama.

#41 - Says that nobody should hammer yet, even though they are SO CLOSE FROM A LYNCH ON OGML. Proceeds to be the first to get out of the BW and vote AGar. Was the one saying "L-3" before. Its decided, I wanna vote OGML right now.



#42 - Good interactions with far.

#43 - Congratulates LL on naming scumtells on Nexus. Interesting.

#44 - And gives another scumtell from Nexus. Makes me think...

#45 - Goes against Saint, has a big discussion with MoI that is mostly pointless, starts crictizing the OGML bandwagon, goes to Nexus.

#46 - Says he's not sure about Magna, neither am I.

#47 - Gets owned by MoI, answers with BS.

#48 - Made a mistake.

#49 - Tries to get town-points for having noticed Locke Lamora is Townie before. Another thing that makes me think far isn't partners with Ythill.

#50 - This is a very interesting post, the way YThill acts condescendingly to Saint is very interesting. Plus, says MoI is partners with Saint, doesn't actually try to push on MoI, although he said he has been following big BW's.

#51 - "Saint's town. He's just being dumb" Heh.

#52 - Wants a Wagon on Nexus.

#53 - Doesn't want the OGML wagon, even though he voted it and put it at L-3

#54 - Starts questioning me.

#55 - Keeps arguing with MoI.

#56 - Catches Wrath with a nice logic. But makes me think that Wrath is even less scummy. Although this makes me wonder if there are two different teams. So I wouldn't be surprised if Wrath is a Mafioso in another team.

#57 - Says he suspects Ghostlin more and that Ani is a runner-up, something he didn't say before. I SHOULD HAVE MADE EXAMINATIONS AT THE END OF D1, NOT NOW, EVEN I WOULD HAVE NOTICED THIS.

#58 - Starts crediblizing himself on Wagons and whatever, blabla, boring.

#59 - Derp.

#60 - Another good point against Wraith, goes back to Ghostlin, never mentions OGML AGAIN, nor Locke, nor Llama. Makes a interesting list where he says LL is townie enough to go BS but not skilled, says Saint is skilled enough even though he said he was being dumb. Says Llama is skilled enough but is not being that towny. Etc, a lot of interesting things can be taken from this list, so I suggest everyone to go check it right NOW.

#61 - Wants Seacore, weird.

#62 - Another logical point against Wrath.

#63 - Wants to lynch Wrath

#64 - Says Ghostlin replaced out under pressure, scummy, I SHOULD HAVE NOTICED THIS, DAMN YOU YTHILL, WHY DID YOU GIVE ME THAT DAMN BROWNIE.

#65 - Gets owned by Magna, no big deal. More good points against Wrath.

#66 - Finally decides to lynch Wrath.

#67 - Rolls eyes at WrathChild, at this point, its all he needed to do to get a lynch on him.

#68 - Was hoping for a Wrath or Ghost lynch today. I know this is bullshit logic, but they way he put Wrath before Ghostlin makes me think again Wrath is not his partner.

#69 - Tries to convince the OGML Wagon to STOP, PLEASE STOP, BAH GAWD!!!

#70 - Says he's sure both Wrath and Ghostlin is scum, I find this curious.

#71 - Interesting point he brings, says everyone has been following his wagons (not necessarily true, but still) and says no one has been following him on Wrath, says he finds that weird. So do I, for that matter.

#72 - More good points against Wrath, bullshit points against Seacore.

#73 - Not much here.

#74 - Argues that he didn't want to lynch Ghostlin because that slot was empty, would probably make me suspect Ghostlin if I didn't know Ghostlin is town.

#75 - Nothing here, move along.

#76 - Says this is a great way to lynch. Gives BS argument.

So, in conclusion:

People I'm fairly positive are Ythill's partners:
OGML

People I think might be Ythill partners:
Llama, Locke, Animorpherv1, Saints.

People I am fairly positive aren't Ythill partners:
Wrath, farside, Seacore, Nexus.

Will do reads on the other users after I get my lazy ass on it.

I was the only fucking one to vote Ythill
/brag

Hm...I haven't done an in-depth reread yet, but some initial skimming makes me think:

-WC is more town
-OGML is more scum

Also, there was someone who basically said to Ythill that he should move his vote to Ghost/00icon because he was influential and would secure the lynch. Can't remember who it was at the moment and haven't found the post yet, but putting it here so I can remember it for later.

Saint wrote:@Farside, your hyperlink was broken for me. It didn't go back to what you said it would, instead it just went back to the start of the game.

Ythill wrote:First up, direct responses...

GG wrote:

Ythill wrote:SGR v Ghost is boring me. I feel like the stances are clear on both sides.

We agree with this, in that it is town-on-town and only gets more apparent every time each of them posts.

You v far was fruitful at first, but has become boring as well. My notes have you at dynamic MotR and I'm starting to think that only the chess head is being scummy. That

could

mean either alignment. However, I'm also noting as of this post the absence of a pretty solid Faraday meta scumtell. Hydras are weird (and by that I mean weird, Seacore).

@GG + far:

If BS (BackStage) was a majority vote, far would already have been sent and GG'd be @ BS-2. Neither of you is going to be today's lynch. Anyone voting either of you should start paying attention and stop wasting their vote. This includes both of you.

vezo wrote:This isn't town agar I know.

Explain please. I have some experience with town AGar but no meta read at this point.

@Magna:

Hi. Do you like replacing in as scum?

Saint wrote:(1) Perhaps I am reading too much into this. (2) Do you share your scumreads? (3) Who else do you see as being a likely scumteam with OGML?

1. Not "too much," just reading it in the wrong direction. I'm more interested in vote changes than behavioral stuff.
   
2. Yes, and I have in this game. Please do not waste my time with the obvious.
   
3. I don't think OGML is scum per se. And I think associative tells are pointless speculation on D1. If you're asking who I find scummy, the current list is: ani, Ghost, Magna, Wrath, and Apok.

Ghost wrote:Regardless of how you feel about GG or farside, do we really want them to go backstage together, get into a possible argument that might derail and dominate the backstage talk considering how they're going at it RIGHT NOW?

Thought provoking... after consideration, this may actually be desirable for what I have in mind for Backstage. I

really

need to get a solid read on the Geese.

1) What do you mean the wrong direction? What do you wish to perceive to get out of those votechanges?
2) it is not necessarily obvious. You could reserve scumreads to not be nightkilled. If you have the entire scumteam pegged, I'd imagine they're going to kill you.
3) I would be happy lynching either of the first two. Magna? I'd like to know why. Tasky didn't seem to be under a lot of pressure, though I'll admit I did come to a gut scum read here when I saw him replace in. It just didn't make any sense, is all. Wrath = WrathChild? He always appears scummy. I had to save his ass when he was town in the last game I completed, Cyclical Experiment. I'll ISO him really fast and get back to you.

in the meanwhile..

Seacore wrote:I just did an ISO of OGML and it's moderately scummy.
There's a lack of scum hunting, there's rhetoric without cases. There's a lot of fluff.

I think OGML is scum. I think OGML could very well be scum with AGar due to two points. 1) AGar is on his list of "if SGR flips scum, these people are scum" there's no info there, so it could just be some light distancing. 2) He votes to start a wagon on AGar, knowing AGar isn't going to be a lynch today, but this way he can say "hey, I try to START a wagon on AGar ages ago, he can't possibly be my buddy.

But that relationship isn't based on whether AGar is scummy, I'll look into that lately.

So at the moment, I'll vote for Ghostlin or OGML, whichever has a larger wagon.

I really don't like this post. I don't expect Seacore to be lynched, and I have found his play suspicious when he is town before, so perhaps my read of him is off yet again. However, I feel like he is trying to take away from OGML. It's akin to a day-1 FoS into a vote of Ghostlin, I would expect. Since he is voting Ghostlin, I really should tack my vote back onto OGML, as I feel it is an associative tell he dropped here.

@Ythill, why the wagon hop? Right when I get suspicious of Seacore for defending OGML, you go and hop onto the largest bandwagon? I'm beginning to read your defense of SGR in #325, if you could even call it that, as reason for you being scum. You know he's town, so he's someone you can defend very easily.

Im actually leaning town on WrathChild after isoing him, although I disagree with him listing Gag and Seacore as town. He is going to join my townreads. I actually have 2 townreads which I would be willing to bet very, very good money on at this point

Questioning of Ythill bandwagonning

Saint wrote:@Ythill
I don't see how you wagon hopping and bandwagonning has anything to do with my credibility. If I call you out on something that is valid, if anything, it should bolster my credibility. There's nothing solid about what you're doing with this. You are trying to make me look like a crazy person, only because I'm the sole person who has voiced suspicions of you whatsoever. Your awkward defensiveness on this matter is noted.

1) I agree with using votecounts and flips. I use flips on associate tells D1 in the RVS...
I know that's a weird strategy, but hey, I like it.
2) Key word some. That's what I mean... you should reserve some.
3) I don't feel quite the same way with his last post, especially if OGML flips scum like I expect he will

unvote: gag

VOTE: OGML

Addressing where he attacked my credibility over his blatant bandwagon

Saint wrote:Somehow I completely missed Locke's unvote, that is where that came from, MoI.
Add Locke to Ythill, and Nexus in the deterring of the lynch. Nexus didn't even unvote with it, so I don't see why that wagon is there, though in terms of him as a player I wouldn't mind the lynch. However, I'm just not seeing him as scum. I am viewing him as newish town, something I definitely am good at spotting.

I am suspicious of Ythill now. His vote has been way too spread out, and he doesn't even see a problem with that. He is also directly attacking my credibility, which is hurtful to the town.

unelect: Ythill
elect: MoI
unvote;

VOTE: Ythill

Into voting Ythill

Yet I'm scum with him, SGR?

actually

I think we can all agree that OGML is 300% Scummier now, I'm probably not gonna change my mind on this one.

#35 - Makes me think about sacrificing myself to save him, another way to give a nice Townread.

God seeing this and knowing he scum now. He was probably trying to feel out if you had a PR by asking that question.

I don't disagree with your OGML view and connection to Ythill.
I however am not changing my vote off Llama. His lack of response is even more interesting based on our talks last night.
I'm sure Ythill feed his scum team the plans we talked about so Llama brushing GG and myself off without question has me zoned in on him at the moment.

>_>
I think we owe you an apology Farside.
>_>

I'm still being revived, right? LOL.

Go scum.

A Gaggle of Geese wrote:>_>
I think we owe you an apology Farside.
>_>

I appreciate the apology.
I was pretty close to adding you to people I never want to play with again and feeling suspicious of Faraday for acting so different then I remember him playing.
I'm not going to get all mushy now. Lets get scum and win for the town.

farside22 wrote:

#35 - Makes me think about sacrificing myself to save him, another way to give a nice Townread.

God seeing this and knowing he scum now. He was probably trying to feel out if you had a PR by asking that question.

Oh, that makes sense too, probably both.

Anything you guys want to share from backstage?

I am so surprised about vezok being NK'd.



I'd like to know why you think Llama, I'd be happy with a OGML lynch until then

Seacore wrote:Anything you guys want to share from backstage?

I want to see what Llama is going to say before I answer this.



No offense but with some of Ythill's comments I don't really trust you and I agree with SGR on WC not being Ythill's scum buddy for the reason's he outlined