Sorry dear fellow guests, I have been piled under a truckload of volumes recently, and have had little time for frivolities. Here are my most recent musings;
jilynne1991 wrote:I don't know why, but something about Feysal leads me to conclude that Lord_hur is townie.
jilynne1991 wrote:Right now, you're kind of leaning scum for me...but Feysal's got me pretty well convinced.
Baroness Jilynne, can you please clarify how certain you are of lord_hur being a dastardly rogue? On the one hand, your posts seem to say with some considerable strength ("conclude", "pretty well convinced") that you believe him to be a true gentleman; yet on the other, you sound unsure and in fact find him a rapscallion ("I don't know why", "kind of leaning scum") - plus, it should of course be noted that you are still voting for him.
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Hoppster wrote:It's a rather abrupt change from me, I'll admit that, but I am thinking perhaps it would be better to send Reya Cookiebringer to the firing squad.
If there is no support to get lord_hur swinging today - and by that I mean we
honestly
cannot cobble together the required ballots - then I will offer my hand in this matter.
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Feysal wrote:
Definitely a scumtell. I've been part of enough many towns that lost because of infighting to say this. One good example is Cold War Mafia which just ended, where both scum teams spent day one lurking, while the town was tearing its own guts. I also know that I tend to lurk myself as scum, since I can't seem to summon the same enthusiasm as when I'm town.
I myself find the lurking to be null, since I have seen numerous townies do as much, and have found myself sparse for time in many occasions. I can see the logic behind lurking as scum, but I feel that it would be imprudent to ignore the (il)logic of lurking as town also. That said, as I expressed to Sir Hoppster, Reya is a fine compromise vote if we truly cannot see lord_hur in the gallows.
Feysal wrote:Also, on the site I moved here from, there is an epidemic of suspecting and lynching active players, and I'm seeing the same symptoms here. Active players such as Lord Hur tend to stand out, especially if they have controversial ideas or suspects, and may end up being wrongly suspected simply because of it. Add confirmation bias and plain stubbornness, and you have the makings of a mislynch. By that point all you need is some lazy townies or scum to vote with the majority.
I fully understand the doubts here, yet I am truly convinced he is a rogue, as opposed to myself being stubborn. From your point of view, I can see why that might be frustrating, should you truly be a gentleman with a gentleman's read on lord_hur.
Feysal wrote:Fair enough, you can suspect him if you think his trust implied knowledge of Hoppster's alignment, but I don't think this was a misrep.
Feysal wrote:Still, I have to grant you that you did give some reasons for your vote in the same post you voted, so perhaps this one is a mild misrep, though I don't think it is nearly so extreme.
I acknowledge these responses and settle for agreeing on a difference of opinion.
Feysal wrote:Your past performance is not a reliable indicator either way on whether you've caught mafia now.
I can agree with this much. I did feel that lord_hur was trying to smear me by picking through my voting record, and I was keen to indicate back to him that should one wish to be selective with their searchings, one can paint anyone in any light. "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics" after all.
Feysal wrote:If you say you're persistently tunnelling him that is not so far from the truth. Deadline is in six days, and apart from Lord Hur, we seem to have no potential lynches to speak of.
Well I truly believe that there is a significant difference between pursuing someone whilst seeing nothing to deflect you from your path; and saying that you will ignore everything raised against you and your ideas of that person being a rapscallion.
Feysal wrote:Perhaps I should try to remedy that:
Vote: imaginality
I just read through his posts, and there is not all that much there. He agreed with the vezokpiraka policy lynch, made the case on kr0b (incidentally, this means that it is very unlikely for both him and kr0b/ToastyToast to be mafia), defended Twistedspoon with meta, but ended the day by sealing his execution. It is this last action that seems most peculiar, and today he has been mostly inactive. His V/LA ended two days ago, and he has not been seen since.
Can I ask why imaginality over the Cookie Monster? Reya has "not been seen" for much longer.
Feysal wrote:
It's mine. The five other people can be wrong, or they can be scum. What would be the point of having town reads if I just let them be lynched without comment? I could be wrong myself of course, but that is no reason to blindly follow the majority. Maybe at deadline if there was no better choice, but we're not there yet.
I will explain why this "rubbed me up the wrong way"; I have fears with the post I responded to in the quote herein, that it was a working example of the process known as Impersonating a Saintly Gentleman at War; or "White Knighting". If lord_hur flips town, you would naturally look excellent by extension. Your "1 vs 5" stance here conveys you as a hero, and being solely responsible for preventing a mislynch - should it be as much, that is. Of course, this is but one interpretation of events. I am not entirely convinced that it's an accurate assessment myself, but it has been one of the first twinges of repugnance that I have felt for your communications, and I had wanted my voice to be heard, lest I should perish before the morrow.
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lord_hur wrote:He asks me why I messaged it anyway if I found it suspcious. I then answered that it is because he thought that would be seen as "OMGUS", and then he attacks me again saying that it was not what Sir Toastytoast suspected me of, while it is clearly not what he asked of me.
I know that this matter is beside the point now, but my whole argument with this line of questioning was that you claimed that you knew you were acting suspiciously, and used that foreknowledge to neuter Toasty's accusation against you, saying that you were a true gentleman behind the rougishness of your post that TT had discerned; and yet, ToastyToast found you suspicious for something else. As such, your perception of you coming across as a rapscallion due to "Oh Good Heavens, You Are Most Incompetent!" (OGHYAMI) was meaningless is addressing TT's suspicions. That is to say, I perceive you as trying to draw attention away from the different, legitimate displeasure that TT felt towards your play by pointing at something else entirely. And that is why I cursed at you for a break with TT's original suspicions.
lord_hur wrote:lord_hur wrote:It could have been a trap, but I did not intend it as such. I am not suspecting Sir inHimshallibe enough.
Sir AurorusVox is obviously very smart. How could he not understand that this means I did not suspect inHimshallibe enough to try to trap him? Yet, he questions me about it, making two propositions that are not like what I said.
Perhaps too smart in this instance, I fear. "I am not suspecting Sir inHimshallibe enough" is not a (fully) grammatically correct sentence; if we read that sentence in isolation
as it is
it could indicate that you feel that you should suspect him more - hence my questioning.
lord_hur wrote:@AurorusVox: I am in the process of possibly reevaluating my stance towards you, sir. And... er... I indeed apologize for the tone of some of the answers I gave you, if you are a true gentleman. Anger and frustration had, I fear, too much of a grasp on me. I have a few questions for you, if you will answer them:
- Did you ever use traps as town?
- Do you have any way for me to ascertain your willingness to pursue doggedly your suspects, before or during your lenghty attack at me? Or maybe in a previous lodge?
1) I most certainly do. I believe my string of questions about why you felt you were suspicious was a sort of trap. However, my concern with you was not to do with the act of trapping or otherwise. It was with you being suspicious of Sir Hoppster, and yet immediately believing his word when he said it was not a trap.
2) I spent most of
TxtMafia ranting about Chamber being scum but was wrong (one of my worst games) so I know it has its drawbacks; I honed in on ExeCultLeader (thought he was scum though, oops) and tried to get him lynched (town insisted on mislynching someone else) in
CvM mafia which was the first baby steps of the doggedness; I thought I'd caught Fate out as scum with my ability (it wasn't anything too concrete, just some things were slightly off with when abilities were claimed to have been used) in
Advance Wars, and though he claimed SpecialFateGambittz + bussed
both
his partners with fake cop reports + no one else wanting to lynch him, I still stuck at it until he killed me off (and yeah, he was scum). Gradual progression.