Good vs Evil, Law vs Chaos Reboot - Game Over, Good wins

[Norman]

You guys just piss me off. All of you. These atrocities just make me even more mad!

[Zdenek]

The only thing that I don't like about Pine's claim is that he embellished it by saying that it was for hunting down lawful evil players, as opposed to lawful players, which includes the town group that he would be happy lynching from. However, this is something that will work itself out in time, so there is no way I'd want to lynch Pine today.

Shadoweh's 627 is just babbling, since she doesn't take into account the possibility of scum having alignment cops.

Foxace's self-vote is very scummy. He saw how people reacted to Nornan's and now he is doing it himself. For the record I have seen the "second self vote in the thread" scum-tell twice.

1. Ortiz in Rivertown Mafia
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=15883

2. Hiraki in NY: 141
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=19048

wrote:And I will continue to think that asking pointless question is scummy even if you flip town.

This demonstrates you are either terrible Town or scum then if you stand by this.

Oh please, that is such garbage. A quick skim from your play in Atomic Mafia shows that you used the following reasons there to think that people who flipped town were scummy:

1. Player's dropping easily faked town-slips
2. Player's not being able to answer simple questions regarding stances that they've taken. For instance, saying there are tones of reasons why something is true, and then not being able to provide any.
3. Distancing from flipped scum.
4. Appeasement

I do not believe that you seriously think that none of these things scummy anymore, and suggesting that I am scummy for thinking that just because a town person did something scummy that the tell becomes completely invalid is stupid or scummy. SInce I know you aren't dumb you can guess which way I'm leaning.

You also need to provide support for this assertion with links %u2013 Complementing someone's scum hunting is buddying and buddying with MoI has proven to be an effective scum-tell. I appreciate it.

Here's one for complementing someone's scum hunting. Sageamagoo Post 423 AdjectivePick
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p3452361
I'm not going to bother hunting down more.

For buddying with MoI there's Diddin and Conspiracy from Atomic Mafia, and I could find others.

MOI's 656 is godly.

That is incredibly ironic considering this:

Just because a behavior can come from town doesn't exclude it from being a scum tell. It just has to be weighted accordingly and judged appropriately. So you really don't know what the hell you're talking about.

and

wrote:And I will continue to think that asking pointless question is scummy even if you flip town.

This demonstrates you are either terrible Town or scum then if you stand by this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Those last two quotes don't seem to be mutually exclusive...am I missing something?

[Zdenek]

Those last two quotes don't seem to be mutually exclusive...am I missing something?

I could repond to that, but I'd like to hear what MoI and LMP have to say first.

[Feysal]

Who's my favourite little turdshit, you are Feysal, you are. Awwww you're so cute trying to make me look like crap. I applaud you for your efforts you worthless, scum-sucking, discriminating, negligant, afflicted, calamitous, vile motherfucking bastard. I hope some day you may be able to eat feces like the piece of shit you are.

Such praise! I am not worthy!

Must... stop... laughing...

It seems to me that you have only proven my point. In case you were actually offended by the debilitating mental disability bit, you should not be. The way you set yourself up for that zinger would have been criminal not to use. Point is, you really don't need me to make you look bad or undermine you, you do that all by yourself. If you can't take criticism, you are playing the wrong game.

[Zdenek]

Just to be clear, it's not just that Tammy's questions were pointless, as I've already pointed out, the main issue was that they were attacking other people's attacks on people (which I think is being aggressively unhelpful) and others looked like she was trying to direct people's attention onto others to them to do her dirty work for her.

[CooLDoG]

With 26 players how do we expect to get a lynch in 9 days, by the way?

Actual lol here. What is the fastest large lynch anyway? Hint, it was one post and was a bad idea . But the fifth shortest day in all of MS history (a pretty long time) is 5 days. Which is still pretty short. I'm going off on tangents here again.

Norman, that was fucking Mayo Clinic, where whispersilk was dictating the game with "logix" and "planz", and I replaced out right after you did. Your argument is invalid.

Just a little meta here for those who don't know. Norman is 1000x better than mist beauty.

@moI's post. Lead on brother. However, I must ask, what do you think of tammy vs. zed? Do you think that their interaction is scummy, or neutral? Also, lynch scum or anti-town (who is town aligned, if you get what I mean)? Also, I would be happy to lynch greeknight as well.

Also, if we are going to policy lynch we had better do it today as briz correctly points out. By d-2 we should be lynching who we think is scum only. With two kills its even debatable if we should P-lynch d1. But personally I would be for a norman lynch or a trekker P-lynch.

You obviously don't know what I'm capable of. You don't allow people second chances do you? It's a shame, briz. Because if you were in my position I'd allow you a second chance. Yeah. Who's the dick now?

Okay, prove us wrong and show us that you are better. If you actually try to catch scum and scum hunt and not omgus half the player list then we/I won't vote for you.

If I had the ability to

nuke every player

shoot, kick, ban every stupid fucker on a wagon, I'd target the CD wagon.

Fixed
Also, LMP should win the award for the most witty player in this game, just saying.

What the fuck is this epic mafia people keep mentioning?

Stay ignorant. I think either UT, oman, or NS actually never said a word on a certain EM account and he has a really good win/loss record. So it's basically the shit pool of mafia gaming.

P.S. If you read all of Suzanne Collin's hunger games books, don't go see the movie. It'll piss you off. Jus' sayin'.

Disagree. The movie was good. You're probably one of those people that freaks out because "OMFG no TOM BOMBADIL!" Newsflash: Movies aren't books. That's why they say they're "adapted" from the book.

It is up for debate if movies can even be compared to books. Totally different medium. Also, Battle Royal movie/book is way way better imo.

@fox, eh I might vote for pine. Not my top choice but passable. Slight scum read here...

Who's my favourite little turdshit, you are Feysal, you are. Awwww you're so cute trying to make me look like crap. I applaud you for your efforts you worthless, scum-sucking, discriminating, negligant, afflicted, calamitous, vile motherfucking bastard. I hope some day you may be able to eat feces like the piece of shit you are.

Damn, that's harsh, and the spelling is worse than mine!

.
.
.
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lynch norman guys. Let's just put him out of his misery. It would clear the air sooooo much.

[CooLDoG]

Also, trekker, in your next post have these elements or face my rage

1) more than 5 lines long
2) explain why you are voting for whoever you are voting for
3) scum list with reasons
4) one quote with meaningful analysis. (not going to be too strict on this one)

[kondi2424]

@CooL: If we're doing this purely for PL, trekker would be better than Norman by a mile.

[Tammy]

Just to be clear, it's not just that Tammy's questions were pointless, as I've already pointed out, the main issue was that they were attacking other people's attacks on people (which I think is being aggressively unhelpful) and others looked like she was trying to direct people's attention onto others to them to do her dirty work for her.

*sigh* You know what's amusing about this? Today while I was swimming, I resolved to get past my annoyance with this situation and try to give you the benefit of the doubt that maybe just maybe there was a possibility that you could be town with really bad logic. And then you demonstrate why exactly that's not the case. I've told you more than once that your interpretations of my questions were completely baseless and that there are no hidden meanings behind what I'm asking. I don't need or want anyone to do my dirty work for me; that's absolutely ridiculous of you to say. I don't know which accusation is more ridiculous.

What makes it more ridiculous is you claim it will still be scummy if I flip innocent and are actually standing by that with even more flawed logic. I'll let you in on something, there is no if about it. When I flip it will be innocent, and when I flip innocent, if you don't reevaluate the things you said to me and you happen to be town, you're an idiot.

The thing is that there are scum tells that innocents do too. Things like parroting, being wishy-washy, fence sitting, making word choice mistakes, sheeping, etc, are things that are pretty basic scum tells, but innocents do them to. Just because innocents do them doesn't mean they aren't scum tells.

But, you're reading things into my questions that aren't there. So, when I flip innocent, if you happen to be town, and you don't look back at our conversation and realize that I was telling you the truth that I was asking those questions in a very straightforward manner to interact with people and evaluate them, then you're being ridiculous. You see it's not the same thing, because you've divined crap that is not there, which you should realize when I flip innocent.

[kondi2424]

You were swimming in March?

[CooLDoG]

@CooL: If we're doing this purely for PL, trekker would be better than Norman by a mile.

true true. I see a norman lynch as a double whammy of lynchy goodness.

[Seacore]

Vote Count 1.7

Norman (5) -

Empking, kondi2424, LynchMePls, brizingre1, CooLDoG

AurorusVox (2) -

greenknight, Shadoweh

CooLDoG (5) -

Shadow1psc, trekker, PeregrineV, ManiacalLemon, Lord Mhork

Shadow1psc (1) -

sorgster

Pine (1) -

Mastermind of Sin

MaguaofIllusion (1) -

Feysal

Tammy (2) -

Haze, Zdenek

Zdenek (1) -

Tammy

Shadoweh (1) -

MaguaofIllusion

Foxace36 (3) -

Pine, Foxace36, Jackal711

greenknight (1) -

Norman

Not Voting (3) - AurorusVox, Moneybags, Skenvoy

VLA - Haze

(expired on 2012-04-02 00:00:00)
With 26 alive, 14 are needed to secure a lynch.

Seeking replacement for Skenvoy.
AurorusVox has picked up the prod and has 24 hours to post.[/quote]

[greenknight]

You specifically go out of your way to say he’s so scummy you can’t believe he’s normal scum and must be a jester. You know, the kind of statement that makes no sense and you can dismiss later with “Well, I guess I was wrong, he was regular scum” whenever you are needing that lynch not on your partners. Nice distancing from your own statement! You don't say he's Town but drop the "Too Scummy for Scum" fallacy.

WTF? I never said Norman was scummy, I said he was TROLLING. These two things are not correlated.

Scum are the ones who like to keep VIs around. They are pocket mislynches later on and distract Town Vigs from the task of shooting scum early in the game. The BEST time to policy lynch in a Large Theme game is Day 1. You get rid of a VI and get valuable information regardless of their flip.

On the contrary, scum love early policy lynches because it's so easy for them to blend in with the town with a vote that they don't have to justify. You're acting as if it's inevitable for town VIs to get mislynched. Which is nonsense. If you can't get a sense for the alignment of a VI after a few days, then you're not as good a player as you obviously think you are. Oh, and in this game half the town leaves after the first scum team is eliminated, resulting in a 50% chance that any given player won't see the endgame. If you policy lynch someone just because you don't want them in endgame, there's a 50% chance they wouldn't have been there regardless. So yes, policy lynching is particularly anti-town in this game.

The rest of your attack on me is laughably bad.

[Shadoweh]

Shadoweh's 627 is just babbling, since she doesn't take into account the possibility of scum having alignment cops.

That's an interesting theory. This game is proposed as two seperate town and scum teams playing in one thread. Why would the scum team have an alignment cop? It doesn't aid their win condition.

[Mastermind of Sin]

You were swimming in March?

You were thinking about this game while you were swimming?

[Empking]

You were swimming in March?

You were thinking about this game while you were swimming?

I see no problem with either of these.

[Zdenek]

Unvote
Vote: Foxace

[kondi2424]

^

Another reason the wagon smells like crap.

[Zdenek]

^

Another reason the wagon smells like crap.

No. it's awesome.

[Zdenek]

I'm mean, I'm town, Pine's town, there's scum on the wagon, but that's FoxAce, so who cares.

[Pine]

Kondi, why do you even play this game? I'm not as good as I'd like to be, but at least I fucking try.

[Tammy]

@Shadow1psc - I reread CoolDog, here and in the other thread, and I don't get why you think he's scum. I understand your original point. I've seen scum in almost every game I've been in feign ignorance about the setup or some aspect that they should definitely know about, so it's good to be a bit weary about it, but the thing is it looks like pretty genuine confusion, and that coupled with his posts in this incarnation, which look quite town, I don't see the accusations. I don't know why you keep harping on it either. A good number of your posts are harping on CoolDog, this situation, and anyone who hasn't acknowledged it. Are you basing your suspicion of him solely on his confusion in the original thread?

Have you found that scum is more likely to not read the rules?

The feigned ignorance thing, however, I did see more in Peregrine V. In the original thread, his first response came AFTER CoolDog had come up with his theories that didn't coincide with the rules. Feysal responded and explained the set up to him, which prompted CoolDog to say he should have read the rules more carefully. Peregrine came in soon after with a joke vote on Skeletor after a joke vote on ManiacalLemon, then comment three was to the guy who posted the chic-pic along with agreeing with Feysal about his idea of no mass-claim, which means that he read Feysal's posts - which would indicate that he read CoolDog's confusion and Feysal's information about the setup. After LMP suggested his mass-claim, Peregrine responded and included this "But, it would actually depend on the evil wincon. Do the LE win if they wipe out the CG, or if they wipe out all good?" If he's reading the thread, then he read Feysal's explanation to CoolDog about the wincon. Why is he now confused? My role PM is quite clear on my wincon anyway, so I'm not sure how he can still be confused after Feysal explaining it. That was the last post in the first thread. This confusion coming after CoolDog's confusion and Feysal's explanation looks feigned.

Add that with the posts with what he's offered here. A check-in post to say that the first thread had more substance, a vote on GNR without a reason, a vote on CoolDog for a weird reason and a picture of a unicorn. This is a very likely scum slot.

I'm not loving the Foxace self-vote. Do self-votes actually count here? Someone did it in the other game I started here before the crash, but no one answered my question. Why would anyone self vote? Foxace's feels really disingenuous after the conversation concerning Norman's self vote when someone said it's a thing that town does. Why is he doing it in such a similar manner as Norman did? Is he hoping it's going to get him less heat or something. Also, what's up with building a case on Pine afterwards and not bothering to move his vote from himself to Pine?

He asks in post 212 why people always get a newb reading on him, but in post #669 in response to Pine's vote on him, he says "Probably thinking it's be easy to get a noob townie like myself lynched." Why originally sound annoyed to have people getting a newb reading then characterize yourself as a noob?



@MoI - trekker's not just a good lynch, he's like a snickers lynch. Don't tempt me refers to the dilemma I mentioned earlier. I'm not a fan of policy lynches and less than a week ago ranted about some players who were suggesting a policy lynch against a player I didn't think deserved it in a game I was co-modding. Now I'm salivating over the concept, so I'm feeling like a bit of a hypocrite here. But, I don't think I've ever seen a player like trekker before, and though I think that Norman maybe gets better, I don't have that same feeling about trekker. Actually I just read posts 671 and 673 by Norman and I'm ready to lynch him as well.

@LMP - I re-read. You did vote for Norman in the same thread as you bolding the words think and might in post 356, but it was also the post in which you mention that his vote to the Kondi wagon coming just after the vote count stunk. But, you were right there were other reasons; I didn't catch your meaning about why the vote coming after the vote count struck you as odd until you explained it to Zdenek. I did go and read the link you provided; I was feeling better about you after your explanation anyway though.

@Greenknight - Why would scum love early policy lynches? They don't kill the ones who don't contribute/are VI's because they want them around. They nightkill the players who are actually playing the game, and leave the distractions alive to hide behind/manipulate in the end.

[kondi2424]

That's implying I don't try. Asshat.

PEdit: Nice timing.

[Foxace36]

@Tammy

No, I am not thinking it would get heat off of me. Everyone can go right ahead and lynch me. It will be easier to narrow down the scum because town will have more information to go off.

And yea. I'm a noob but I hate it when people can pick up on that lol. I like to contribute.