I also looked through Mcstab's iso and it's scummy. A lot of what was in my head to cover was covered in Benmage's 557 which I largely agreed with in points regarding Mcstab of all things. (I usually don't find myself agreeing with Benmage about much of anything.)
Mcstab/Zdenek would be my 2nd choice for a lynch.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:37 am
by ActionDan
↑BT wrote:Uh, yeah, my activity here stagnated a bit but I'll get right on it.
Dan, why's Shadoweh super obvious town? I'll go with it if you insist but still curious.
That was me mostly thinking out loud for what conditions I would expect zar to not be active, or really not communicate much with his other head. Being busy is one reason, but as he put together a game at another site to mod this week, I don't really count that. Zar doesn't especially like being town, unless a game has interesting mechanics. He also finds being vanilla town really dull. So, the fact that he left the game up to his other head means it's more likely that he's town. The unrolled part doesn't really mean much, as I know he let his other head take over a good portion of the game in buckshot mafia even though they were rolled.
Even if this is true, what I really don't like is that he has been active backstage, obv forming "reads" on people, so it seems like he's not actually that missing as he appears. Kinda reminds me of OS in black flag how he was not really active on the thread but was working somewhat hard contriving reads and "cases backstage.
↑Plessiezarus wrote:I'd like to try to clarify exactly why you think Vifam is town, too. When (were?) you convinced by the exchange with Benmage you quoted?
Now? That exchange was to show that Benmage and Vifam talked about Vifam's meta and he even linked a game, in which he had A LOT of non-game relevant posts
Oh, hmm. I think I was misreading you a bit. So is your Vifam/BT town-read still based mainly (solely?) on Vifam's 40? What do you think of BT's posts?
↑Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Also, Zar, you look like you've done a lot of work backstage, but have been somewhat missing on thread, and not really interacting much. Is there a reason for that?
I tend to read the game following along my impressions on what players post. It's why Pless often makes reference of me leaving him quick notes on AIM; I find he's a lot better organizing our thoughts while I like to think of myself as the better gut reader of us two.
~Zar.
What Zar is too polite to say here is "I think Pless is a bit of a control-freak, and would go nuts in the QT if I dared to post something in the game without at least quickly running it by him first".
↑Plessiezarus wrote:basically because I don't understand why McStab found Nostredeus' vote of Shadoweh suspicious, since he had been voting Shadoweh himself.
Which post are you referring to here?
Hmm. Looks like Zar is misreading things a bit here. McStab votes Shadoweh in 93, and later, in 164 attacks Nost for being talked out of his idea by Shadoweh, his scum-read. But McStab doesn't actually say the Shadoweh vote is suspicious in itself - looks like Zar missed the point a bit. That said, I don't like the fact McStab voted Shadoweh and never explained why he had a scum-read on her (he gives a town-read on her later, I think).
↑Zdenek wrote:and Pless, why do you have a town read on SottyRulez?
Personally, I have a weak town-read on SottyRulez because I think the "trust me guys, Jason is town because meta!" thing is more likely to come from town than scum (as scum it would be a card you could safely play at most once), and because the persistent suspicion of TGAH and the mild bickering with Cerulean seem very genuine.
Zar's read is stronger than mine, though, so he can expand on that, probably.
↑BT wrote:Pless, the tiny bit about my comments on SAD isn't really a contradiction.
I
didn't get a clear read from his content, but for someone [Jason] who thinks he's scum hiding behind RP you have to wonder why he didn't seem to be interested in his actual content. To try and convince people and such.
Yeah, as I said, my suspicion of a connection between you and SAD is mostly driven by SAD's insistence that Vifam is town (for what feel like contrived reasons). It's a very weak read.
~ Pless
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:47 am
by ActionDan
oops, meant to click preview
@BT: Shadoweh's early play is town 100%. It amazes me there was a wagon on her that reached to 4-5 votes. I could quote specific posts but I don't feel like bothering with what should have been obvious.
@Jason: Well her wagon kinda sucked some ass so I'm not about to give any credit to her wagoners. In particular I found 153 scummy and GreatAmericanHero's overall tunnel on Shadoweh overblown.
I only used "had" because this is from memory since I stopped paying attention for a few days. I most likely will vote him after I fully catch up.
@trio of Benmage, Camn, and Mini-Lib: LOL. I have no shame. I had forgotten for about .5 secs that Townies this game are part of the barksdale assiociation, so the red scared me until I realized I was town.
@Benmage: I didn't want to be scum this game when I had 3 super town-reads. I'd have to fake not thinking that way
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:50 am
by The Baltimore Sun
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:12 am
by Benmage
↑ActionDan wrote:@BT: Shadoweh's early play is town 100%. It amazes me there was a wagon on her that reached to 4-5 votes. I could quote specific posts but I don't feel like bothering with what should have been obvious.
Your spot needs all the help it can get. I wouldn't normally care about this...the wagon was bleh, but I would like to see some of your thought process even if it is obvious. So if you could embellish or quote the specific posts, that'd be beneficial.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:46 am
by DeasVail
@Shadoweh/Anyone else: Does ActionDan not like being scum?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 9:52 am
by BT
Dan leans scum, yeah
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:11 am
by Cerulean
↑Ser Arthur Dayne wrote:Wait tammy fill me in on zar-meta in the marvel game (that's the one he played and I'm assuming he was town in?)
I was able to read him pretty easily as town. He was active but not overly so, made the correct push on scum early day one. Some had some bad scum reads on him towards end game. But, that's a bad game to ask me about. I replaced out early day one, and it was my birthday weekend, so I skimmed the game some mostly after the weekend was over.
He has a recent town and scum game here on mafiascum though that you can check out that would probably be more helpful.
I plan to re-read both TML and Cerulean (sp?) as pet first wagon theory makes me want to look at them closely.
We've never had a vote on us, much less a wagon. TML hasn't had much of a wagon either. If you mean you're looking closely at the people who were on the first wagon, which was mcstab, why aren't you looking "closely" at everyone? And since we started the wagon, and you have a pet theory, whatever that is, and you wanted to look closely at that wagon/random people on the wagon, wouldn't logic dictate that you ask why we started said wagon?
Or are you just throwing out a random theory and a need to iso random people so you look busy?
↑Cerulean wrote:I know Jason's not getting lynched today. He knows it, you know it, the entire town knows it.
Why are you still voting Jay?
I haven't had a chance to talk to Empire since Monday about the game at all, and we agreed that our votes would be hydra votes. I don't know if he wants to pursue Jason still; I doubt it I think he'll see Jason's not getting lynched today also. And I don't know where he's interested in moving it. I would have said McStab, but I don't know if he's still interested in that since the replacement.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:49 am
by Zdenek
So, let's see:
Petapan/ActionDan is probably scum because of Petapan. His attempt to write off his comment about not knowing what he was doing as joke while still saying that he lacked confidence in his reads doesn't seem like a legitimate point. I also find his attack on SafetyDance to be convenient and thoughtless. That said, I still have my own concerns about SafetyDance.
Camn is probably scum for push garbage. She did it earlier with Plessiezarus and now with my slot.
Jason could easily be scum here. I don't read his way to blow my gambit post as genuine, his attack on SAD for overcompensating sucks, and I his unvote of SAD while still calling him scum makes no sense.
I had concerns about Absta earlier, but I like his current push on Camn.
Sotttyrulez case on TGAH is pretty weak considering how hard they are pushing it, but if they're that convinced by their meta-read of rofl, that could be meaningless. One concerning things is that outside of 452 they haven't mentioned too many people.
TGAH - So, yeah their rationale for their town read on SAD sucked, but I think that their suspicions are reasonable.
SAD - someone made a pretty good point about him usually saying that every post that someone makes goes into determining if they are scummy or not, and that in this game he criticized someone for doing that to him, so that's a concern. I also don't grasp the reasoning for their Plessiezarus vote. On the other hand I've mostly liked the things that he's choosing to be concerned with.
@BT: Shadoweh's early play is town 100%. It amazes me there was a wagon on her that reached to 4-5 votes. I could quote specific posts but I don't feel like bothering with what should have been obvious.
@Jason: Well her wagon kinda sucked some ass so I'm not about to give any credit to her wagoners. In particular I found 153 scummy and GreatAmericanHero's overall tunnel on Shadoweh overblown.
I only used "had" because this is from memory since I stopped paying attention for a few days. I most likely will vote him after I fully catch up.
@trio of Benmage, Camn, and Mini-Lib: LOL. I have no shame. I had forgotten for about .5 secs that Townies this game are part of the barksdale assiociation, so the red scared me until I realized I was town.
@Benmage: I didn't want to be scum this game when I had 3 super town-reads. I'd have to fake not thinking that way
What a bit of scum posting.
"Oh Shadoweh is obvious town to me because I play with her at another site and am really adept at her meta so anyone who doesn't see she's obvious town whether or not they know her meta is sketch" is utter bullshit. You sound like you're going "Shadoweh, I'm coming to your rescue even though most everyone decided they were wrong anyway but you can read me too, do you see I'm defending you? Do you? Do you? Please call me town!"
Why in a million years would you have to fake having your town reads if you were scum? I've replaced into games as scum and followed along having my strong townreads and didn't have to change them. Scum have to have town reads too, so claiming you couldn't have them is what.
↑absta101 wrote:@Ben - I think I'm on page 9 but I've been skimming the walls. I gave my read on jason because he's the leading waggon.
---
@Safety - You've seen that SaD isn't responding to your pressure and you've stated that he isn't exactly a scum read. Why are you still voting him?
On the contrary to those thinking its scummy to point it out, I think it's incredibly scummy of those who are throwing weak scum reads for weak reason such as this.
I don't understand this. Can you explain it please.
Also, town-you would be voting these increadibly scummy people or deffenders over SaD who isn't really your scum read. VOTE: Safety
---
@peta - I wanted to catch up fully before I voted.
↑absta101 wrote:Stop fucking posting so much. I've been sitting here trying to post this fucking post. FUCK!
This made me feel twitchy when I saw it the first time, but reading through this morning it irked me again.
The first post here is at 5:05, and the second post is at 5:07, and you're flip out "fuck I want to post but can't because you're posting so much" post came at 5:09.
Can you explain where all those phantom posts that are keeping you from posting your ultra important post came from?
I'm not even sure why it's bugging me so much, maybe because it sounds fake, maybe because the majority of your posts sound off. Dunno.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:34 pm
by TheGreatestAmericanHero
This game is pissing me off. Jason is scum, but most people are so fixated on his "gambit" that they can't see past their nose.
-That's not why he is scum.-
Jason is scum due to 1) saying Dayne is scum because he's trying hard to look Barksdale (wtf?) 2) Push on Vifam because "one-liners" but hey! hasn't touched BT since he replaced in 3) if people haven't looked at the Dresden Mafia link, do it he's not the same 4) Here's the kicker: If Jason was so worried about scum "fitting in" why does he have no comment on CDB's early posting about absta?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:37 pm
by TheGreatestAmericanHero
I'm stepping away as this game is infuriating. It's Super Bowl weekend/my birthday on Wednesday. Don't expect much from us till Tuesday.
-TML hasn't really had any negative contribution. His posting albeit low, is pretty good (I don't think he's ever very prolific?). Looks like genuine reading/questioning, and he does give reads which is something you need to be more wary of if someone's coasting(That is coasting and not giving reads). Think you're jumping the gun a little early with the lack of questioning on his spot. Tis D1.
I agree; I said basically exactly the same myself, I think I'd like to hear more from TML, I think TML hasn't done anything terrible, and I think players who go through D1 without heat worry me. There's no accusations here yet, maybe in time depending on how TML comes across to me, I haven't even got the gun out never mind tried to jump it.
↑The Mini-Librarian wrote:I'm gonna be honest here. I still haven't read those Plessiezarus case walls. My eye just kinda glaze over when I see them. Will read soon though.
They are actually worth reading. I think Plez might be town.
Already have a slight town read on them cause 614. This is main reason I asked that question to SAD, since he voted them shortly after that post. (most useful case was the one on mcstab still not confident in any sort of read on that slot though. Will iso again tonight.)
--
↑Zdenek wrote:Vote: Camn
Votes me for null reasons and doesn't comment when I point that out.
1) Your pointing that out wasn't particularly convincing. (hint: there's a difference between acting nonchalant about a vote yet explaining why the person is wrong and just acting nonchalant about the vote) 2) even if you're right, why does this make camn scum?
--
↑TheGreatestAmericanHero wrote:This game is pissing me off. Jason is scum, but most people are so fixated on his "gambit" that they can't see past their nose.
-That's not why he is scum.-
Jason is scum due to 1) saying Dayne is scum because he's trying hard to look Barksdale (wtf?) 2) Push on Vifam because "one-liners" but hey! hasn't touched BT since he replaced in 3) if people haven't looked at the Dresden Mafia link, do it he's not the same 4) Here's the kicker: If Jason was so worried about scum "fitting in" why does he have no comment on CDB's early posting about absta?
Honest question: why didn't you post something like this much, much closer to your vote on Jason? You've had a scum read on Jason for most of the game now, but haven't really reduced your suspicions into an easy-to-follow format until just now.
-TML hasn't really had any negative contribution. His posting albeit low, is pretty good (I don't think he's ever very prolific?). Looks like genuine reading/questioning, and he does give reads which is something you need to be more wary of if someone's coasting(That is coasting and not giving reads). Think you're jumping the gun a little early with the lack of questioning on his spot. Tis D1.
I agree; I said basically exactly the same myself, I think I'd like to hear more from TML, I think TML hasn't done anything terrible, and I think players who go through D1 without heat worry me. There's no accusations here yet, maybe in time depending on how TML comes across to me, I haven't even got the gun out never mind tried to jump it.
New question: why sling non-suspicion onto my particular slot for not being attacked when there's other slots that fufill your criteria? (baby spice, sottyrulez)
@BT: Shadoweh's early play is town 100%. It amazes me there was a wagon on her that reached to 4-5 votes. I could quote specific posts but I don't feel like bothering with what should have been obvious.
@Jason: Well her wagon kinda sucked some ass so I'm not about to give any credit to her wagoners. In particular I found 153 scummy and GreatAmericanHero's overall tunnel on Shadoweh overblown.
I only used "had" because this is from memory since I stopped paying attention for a few days. I most likely will vote him after I fully catch up.
@trio of Benmage, Camn, and Mini-Lib: LOL. I have no shame. I had forgotten for about .5 secs that Townies this game are part of the barksdale assiociation, so the red scared me until I realized I was town.
@Benmage: I didn't want to be scum this game when I had 3 super town-reads. I'd have to fake not thinking that way
What a bit of scum posting.
"Oh Shadoweh is obvious town to me because I play with her at another site and am really adept at her meta so anyone who doesn't see she's obvious town whether or not they know her meta is sketch" is utter bullshit. You sound like you're going "Shadoweh, I'm coming to your rescue even though most everyone decided they were wrong anyway but you can read me too, do you see I'm defending you? Do you? Do you? Please call me town!"
Why in a million years would you have to fake having your town reads if you were scum? I've replaced into games as scum and followed along having my strong townreads and didn't have to change them. Scum have to have town reads too, so claiming you couldn't have them is what.
You just sound so fake.
It's precisely posts like these that made me feel the need to get out those reads. I'm assuming this is Tammy. You do not understand people, and least of all me. Just because the wagon is off of shadoweh now doesn't mean everyone else thinks she's solid town. maybe leaning town, but I don't remember anyone calling her firm town besides maybe benmage.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I think Shadoweh's tone has sounded like her usual town self, and that's meta, but I have her as town due to her play and her early reads, which is decidedly not meta. Her votes for Benmage earlier and her vote for TML were both coming from a town mindset. In particular, 210 when she *sees the light* and get's off of Benmage because she saw that he was reasoning like she was, and unto TML, was the move that solidified my town read of her.
Your failure to read her was a failure to read townie play.
As for my meta, as scum I do not like having to call people town. Because I have to stick with the reads once I do that and my voting options become constricted. It's an uncomfortable experience.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:06 pm
by Zdenek
↑The Mini-Librarian wrote:1) Your pointing that out wasn't particularly convincing. (hint: there's a difference between acting nonchalant about a vote yet explaining why the person is wrong and just acting nonchalant about the vote) 2) even if you're right, why does this make camn scum?
She's voting McStab for doing something that she's done twice. The other one is her Ooooh, Big Man post, where she doesn't explain anything. It's scummy, first of all, because using bs cases to try push a lynch is scummy, and secondly, because of the cognitive dissonance involved in voting someone for something that you do yourself. Now, okay, people have different takes on things, and that's fine, but she doesn't even comment when I point out that she's done exactly the thing that she's voting me for, which is something that I don't see coming from town who's trying to get me lynched.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:23 pm
by Benmage
↑TheGreatestAmericanHero wrote:This game is pissing me off. Jason is scum, but most people are so fixated on his "gambit" that they can't see past their nose.
-That's not why he is scum.-
Jason is scum due to 1) saying Dayne is scum because he's trying hard to look Barksdale (wtf?) 2) Push on Vifam because "one-liners" but hey! hasn't touched BT since he replaced in 3) if people haven't looked at the Dresden Mafia link, do it he's not the same 4) Here's the kicker: If Jason was so worried about scum "fitting in" why does he have no comment on CDB's early posting about absta?
↑TheGreatestAmericanHero wrote:I'm stepping away as this game is infuriating. It's Super Bowl weekend/my birthday on Wednesday. Don't expect much from us till Tuesday.
Do these posts not read incredibly fake?
Wah, I can't get my top suspect lynched... woes me, everyones blind....
Wtf? This isn't his first game of mafia, when does anyone get their top scum suspect lynched?
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:27 pm
by Cerulean
↑ActionDan wrote:
It's precisely posts like these that made me feel the need to get out those reads. I'm assuming this is Tammy. You do not understand people, and least of all me. Just because the wagon is off of shadoweh now doesn't mean everyone else thinks she's solid town. maybe leaning town, but I don't remember anyone calling her firm town besides maybe benmage.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I think Shadoweh's tone has sounded like her usual town self, and that's meta, but I have her as town due to her play and her early reads, which is decidedly not meta. Her votes for Benmage earlier and her vote for TML were both coming from a town mindset. In particular, 210 when she *sees the light* and get's off of Benmage because she saw that he was reasoning like she was, and unto TML, was the move that solidified my town read of her.
Your failure to read her was a failure to read townie play.
As for my meta, as scum I do not like having to call people town. Because I have to stick with the reads once I do that and my voting options become constricted. It's an uncomfortable experience.
And this post is a pretty good indication of why I think your slot is scum. It's so stilted. You haven't felt the need to criticize my ability to understand/read people before so you feel the need to now? A good portion of my job is understanding people, so your "you don't understand people" shtick sounds like crap for undermining purposes.
It's precisely posts like what that made you rush to go benmage, shadoweh and bt are obvtown guys?
And so what if my failure to read her at first was a failure to read town play. You might have seen her vote on Ben as being town reasoning, we didn't.
You've only called three people town, btw. There are more town here than that, are you failing to be able to read town play?
And I find it interesting that the only people you have called town are benmage and two people you play with at another site. Those I wouldn't consider town reads you're paying for. For two people as town you would be expected to read as town would look extra suspicious to them if you didn't town read them, so your meta reasoning doesn't really hold up.
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:28 pm
by Ser Arthur Dayne
This actually reads the same thing as Absta's "frustration". I really can't see how any person would be that "frustrated", and it's really just coming off as fake.
We've never had a vote on us, much less a wagon. TML hasn't had much of a wagon either. If you mean you're looking closely at the people who were on the first wagon, which was mcstab, why aren't you looking "closely" at everyone? And since we started the wagon, and you have a pet theory, whatever that is, and you wanted to look closely at that wagon/random people on the wagon, wouldn't logic dictate that you ask why we started said wagon? 
