What do you think about him wanting to lynch Fuzzy?
I think that Fuzzy doesn't contribute to the town much. However, he hasn't yet actively distracted the town by fakeclaiming a role restriction.
(this is separate to my scumreading the three current candidates)
I think there are better people to lynch today, but I would consider voting him if that's what it came down to. I'm not particularly confident in my scumread of him, compared to the other two though.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:11 pm
by eyestott
@Yshtola: #674 was too esoteric for a mere mortal like me to understand. Can you rephrase that in a more common tongue?
In post 596, Luca Blight wrote:
I thought dog was pretty obviously Town, even if I am slightly biased.
Perceiving his iso as better than leantown is definitely implausible to me. I agree with Ame's read here
His anger about the lying and subsequent replace-out was obviously Town imo.
I don't view it that way, but eh I can see you seeing it that way after getting biased by a green PM if you really have one
Come play mafia with us
Why would scum replace out over a player deliberately lying and drawing attention to himself? That would be a perfect opportunity to dig into a tunnel. The fact he replaced out over it proves his anger was genuine, which only makes sense from town there.
This is incorrect. Emotions are commonly the same regardless of the nature of one's soul, as they are the manifestation of the person's opinions and ideals. If he feels strongly enough about such a thing being worth having that large a reaction to, it would have little to nothing to do with the color of his soul.
The emotions are dependent on the alignment: rabid said himself numerous times that lying townies make it easier for scum to hide. This shows it was a townie ideal and that he recognized the benefit from a scum perspective.
Do you see the folly of this stance? Those who lead the charge against falsehoods with no higher meaning are those who benefit the most from the false accusation.
Those who would hide from the truth are those who need the introduction of such falsehoods the most. Is this not self-evident?
If I understand you correctly, then that’s kind of my point - rabid could have used the lies if he were scum. Instead he replaced out despite being under no pressure.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:21 pm
by Yshtola Rhul
In post 676, eyestott wrote:@Yshtola: #674 was too esoteric for a mere mortal like me to understand. Can you rephrase that in a more common tongue?
The proposed quandary is that Sin Eaters are more primed to take advantage of Warriors of Light lying than when there are none.
In which case, when there are those who take advantage of such lies to push them into the spotlight, what alignment is the more likely to make such a claim? This is further exacerbated by the idea that the person Luca Blight is suggesting as a Warrior of Light is not the first to suggest such a thing, nor is he among those that did so while it was at it's most pressing.
Therefore, is it not a more interesting supposition that he left the room for reasoning of disgust at the idea of a Warrior of Light creating such a lie and that other Warriors of Light not allowing him to pay for those crimes? Nowhere on this supposition does a Sin Eater balk, for a Sin Eater does not immediately lose their moral compass solely because they are a Sin Eater, especially those that would pass as a Warrior of Light to mine eyes.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 9:22 pm
by popsofctown
I am still just bewildered by how seriously my fakeclaim was treated when I posted it after the mod posted in thread "nobody has a post restriction".
I don't understand how on top of that when I deliberately made the claim even more absurd by making it too complex for what a normal queue version of a post restriction would be, people still asked. It kind of even makes me a little suspicious of fake-dumbtelling in Ame's case.
Like, do you people not trust the mod, do I need to prepare in advance that if the game has investigative roles people will complain results and you'll be asking whether we should still lynch the scummy guy in case nomnomnom lied? Or like are you gonna setup spec godfathers even though godfather isn't normal?
In post 676, eyestott wrote:@Yshtola: #674 was too esoteric for a mere mortal like me to understand. Can you rephrase that in a more common tongue?
The proposed quandary is that Sin Eaters are more primed to take advantage of Warriors of Light lying than when there are none.
In which case, when there are those who take advantage of such lies to push them into the spotlight, what alignment is the more likely to make such a claim? This is further exacerbated by the idea that the person Luca Blight is suggesting as a Warrior of Light is not the first to suggest such a thing, nor is he among those that did so while it was at it's most pressing.
Therefore, is it not a more interesting supposition that he left the room for reasoning of disgust at the idea of a Warrior of Light creating such a lie and that other Warriors of Light not allowing him to pay for those crimes? Nowhere on this supposition does a Sin Eater balk, for a Sin Eater does not immediately lose their moral compass solely because they are a Sin Eater, especially those that would pass as a Warrior of Light to mine eyes.
That’s clearly not why rabid ‘left the room’, though. Paragon was being given a hard time generally over the lie and Pops was being wagoned. What pushed rabid over the edge was when Eyestott also made a similar post about having a post restriction. If rabid were scum, knowing everyone's alignment and having easy reasons to push multiple players while not being under any pressure himself, then there is a lot less reason to feel frustrated than Town!Rabid who doesn’t know anyone else’s alignment and just sees an increasing number of players goofing around with the post restriction, making it more difficult to tell scum from town.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:30 pm
by Luca Blight
I could see Ame being scum this game. She got locked into that Pops tunnel really quickly, and her stance towards Paragon with regards to his post restriction claim feels a bit like fake solving. I also feel like she might be trying to white-knight Fuzzy, and she jumped to the conclusion that I’m not playing to my town meta way too fast, and isn’t attempting to sort me further as I would have expected from her.
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:39 pm
by Luca Blight
VOTE: Ame
Posted: Thu Mar 19, 2020 10:40 pm
by Luca Blight
She’s trying to buddy Rhul as well. She’s too trusting of her, which doesn’t resonate with me.
You have the most accurate scum reads of anyone I've played with so far on this site. Fuzzy is such a bad and opportunistic push. Although you did do the same thing with Aaron. I guess I have you in the BoP category in my mind so it pings me when you're pushing in the wrong direction.
This seems like a slip to me. There is nothing to suggest Fuzzy is Town, so why does Ame so firmly believe I’m pushing in the wrong direction? Ame had Fuzzy in her second bottom pile earlier and has since not updated her read. This stance makes no sense from town.
In post 676, eyestott wrote:@Yshtola: #674 was too esoteric for a mere mortal like me to understand. Can you rephrase that in a more common tongue?
The proposed quandary is that Sin Eaters are more primed to take advantage of Warriors of Light lying than when there are none.
In which case, when there are those who take advantage of such lies to push them into the spotlight, what alignment is the more likely to make such a claim? This is further exacerbated by the idea that the person Luca Blight is suggesting as a Warrior of Light is not the first to suggest such a thing, nor is he among those that did so while it was at it's most pressing.
Therefore, is it not a more interesting supposition that he left the room for reasoning of disgust at the idea of a Warrior of Light creating such a lie and that other Warriors of Light not allowing him to pay for those crimes? Nowhere on this supposition does a Sin Eater balk, for a Sin Eater does not immediately lose their moral compass solely because they are a Sin Eater, especially those that would pass as a Warrior of Light to mine eyes.
That’s clearly not why rabid ‘left the room’, though. Paragon was being given a hard time generally over the lie and Pops was being wagoned. What pushed rabid over the edge was when Eyestott also made a similar post about having a post restriction. If rabid were scum, knowing everyone's alignment and having easy reasons to push multiple players while not being under any pressure himself, then there is a lot less reason to feel frustrated than Town!Rabid who doesn’t know anyone else’s alignment and just sees an increasing number of players goofing around with the post restriction, making it more difficult to tell scum from town.
This is a more sensical approach.
Very well, I will acquiesce for the moment and return to standby.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:13 am
by NDMath
@tali I'm used to a site meta of using the majority of discussion time and I prefer playing that way.
Does that mean you'll feel sad that you didn't understand me when I flip green, Ame?
I'm townreading Paragon. I figured out another one of his alts and am disappointed there are not as many separate wonderful people in existence as I previously thought but also by meta I think it gives me additional reason to be townreading him.
I share his frustration that preflip assoc reads are stupid, there is probably inherent validity to a gamestate read that Paragon is probably aligned with me, and people are just errantly presuming that it's S/S. Like I actually don't care way too much about getting mislynched here, I was starting to miss my day1 mislynch meta and I think there will be lots to read from the debris, but confbiasing into preflip assocs squanders the reads you can develop using this dayphase. Preflip assocs are inherently bad play because player's reads are actually very close to rand but psychologically they tend to feel more confident than that.
Taco seems kind of townish to me. Maybe, like on tone?
NDMath's catchup seemed scummy to me, though I'm not sure that's accurate omgus. Would like to see more from the slot.
Y'shtola's passivity is at a critical mass. I am not sure how it would ever be possible to townread her the way she's playing.
The further into this post I read the more I disliked it.
I disagree with Luca's argument about Rabid but I see no point in arguing it.
You have the most accurate scum reads of anyone I've played with so far on this site. Fuzzy is such a bad and opportunistic push. Although you did do the same thing with Aaron. I guess I have you in the BoP category in my mind so it pings me when you're pushing in the wrong direction.
This seems like a slip to me. There is nothing to suggest Fuzzy is Town, so why does Ame so firmly believe I’m pushing in the wrong direction? Ame had Fuzzy in her second bottom pile earlier and has since not updated her read. This stance makes no sense from town.
Opportunistic is a key word there.
The fifth time of rereading Ame's post I finally figured out what your point was. I agree now it doesn't make sense.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 1:17 am
by NDMath
@Taco What were your thoughts on Robb?
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:11 am
by Paragon
In post 668, popsofctown wrote:i'm sorry I know it's an English speaking forum but when my Hearthstone card swears that it wants vengaza it always means so much more than the word "revenge"
In post 599, Taly wrote:pops, you're going to have to really sell me on who you want to lynch
You agree with me that FuzzyLogic is scummy. I put a good amount of stock in lynching someone who has done very little, with all of what they've done being scummy. Stark contrast to a slot who has done one special thing everyone seems to think is scummy, but is not corroborated by other reasons to believe I'm scum despite pretty voluminous posting. When I've been lynched as scum early like in Team Mafia and Masons and Mafia people have found detail after detail of many different things I was doing scum indicative.
It's very disturbing that FuzzyLogic projected having much more effort and acumen during RVS/low information then caught up with a totally nothingburger post.
I'm actually leaning to the opposing mentality here:
If
Fuzzy
is lynched and flips scum, wonderful! But how has his posting helped solve for his team? If
Fuzzy
is lynched and flips town, this D1 will become like most others as the shitfest it often concludes as.
If, say,
you/Paragon, or even someone more present
were lynched and flips scum, then that gives plenty of content to go through that could give insight in other people's alignment, even if our negotiated
"preflip associations"
are incorrect, it gives the ability for discussion that dispels this. If one of you flipped town then that gives a strong reason to reevaluate as the wagon had leverage beyond a lack of information.
This is why I was irked by the
Fuzzy
wagon revival (and push on lurker slots) even when I didn't townread him, it felt like an easy push for scum to make - EVEN in the world that you aren't scum
Pops
.
If
Fuzzy
straight-up refuses the call to contribute soon, then I'd be inclined to back it, but I want to force him to spew before that lynch becomes most comfortable.
What has prevented you from pushing
Y'shtola
?
In post 629, Aloratom wrote:Yeah I don't know that I'm seeing as much scum in pops as some are. More like obstinate town. She's rubbing people the wrong way, and her copping the post restriction to make a point was odd, but she's right about Fuzzy and about Y'shtola. Fuzzy started strong and has since been MIA, and Y'shtola's role seems to be to stand by and wait for things to happen. Pops may be off-putting, but I'm not scum reading her right now.
Can you read 159 to 214? I need a second pair of eyes there.
In post 486, popsofctown wrote:most of what I accomplished the last few pages is making eyestott an IC you should be proud. Please spray a bubblebeam of celebration
In post 651, popsofctown wrote:I was analyzing Taly's behavior, I interpreted that part as town indicative
Don't know about read changes, but I need to look at your posting with more nuance - you have such a roundabout way of gamesolving that it's hard to argue your points but also figure out the motivation behind them.
You're doing what I'd love to have the ability to do more as scum.
Spoiler: I'm not going to lie, this shit made me laugh out loud.
In post 666, Yshtola Rhul wrote:I hearken to those who seek the salvation of this star and the aversion of a future calamity, we must identify and eliminate the Sin Eaters of this land. For once we have reached the breaking point, two worlds will be lost and countless lives will be forfeit.
We have identified the existence of one such creature in this very room, its sickening light threatening to corrupt those within to the same gruesome fate. We must stop it immediately before it can set forth a chain of events that we can not fix.
Yshtola Rhul wrote:UNVOTE: popsofctown
I await the answer to our call.
popsofctown wrote:I have nothing but confusion about 666 and 667
Housekeeping Part
yo
Luca
, can you avoid justifying your predecessor's replace-out when nobody has stated issue on it, and give reads/ask questions about anyone you haven't directly spoke to yet? Also, see my 479506516521 from what read shift on
Paragon
.
NDMath wrote:@tali I'm used to a site meta of using the majority of discussion time and I prefer playing that way.
Again, I used to agree with this mentality.
But tbh, this can benefit scum as much as town, so
*shrugs*
Clearly not many people follow my reads... I'm trying not to waffle myself into oblivion until a lynch happens, but I fear that's what will happen if I go back on my stronger town or stronger scum reads now. Hmmmmm. But I may need to reevaluate if nothing else but get a stronger grasp of this game?
I see the points on
Ame
, hence why I wanted to ask why she felt so strong on me town and
pops
scum on her entrance, but I don't know if I want her lynched? I want to see what happens with this wagon, though. But I've seen town inflate - especially replace-ins - inflate their confidence over their reads as a gamesolving tool to resolve any lack of traction or clarity presented by other players.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:18 am
by Paragon
Ame, you previously had me as a Warrior of the Light, is that stance still true, and if not, what has caused the change? If it's the gimmick, then I'd like you to explain why it's scum-indicative.
A Bouncy Castle + An Old Boot
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:27 am
by Taly
lets townbloc
paragon
lul
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:27 am
by Paragon
In post 17, eyestott wrote:I’m so excited to get back into mafia! Thanks everyone for playing with me, I don’t think I’ve met any of y’all before. VOTE: Taly, I think you may be the exception! Do you remember me at all?
Natural towniness.
In post 69, eyestott wrote:I don’t think I’m good enough at this game to have any worthwhile reads just from RVS. I am interested why I was put at the top of your list, Paragon. Other than that, not really sure what there is for me to reply to
Towning paranoia.
In post 138, eyestott wrote:Paragon, I like the way you think. I’m looking through each persons ISO posts, got anything you’d like to specifically get my opinion on?
And aloes, I mostly agree with you RE: 135 and Conspire. The single post also reads like he’s trying to seem more involved than he actually is.
Towner looking to get into the game by asking someone they trust.
In post 138, eyestott wrote:Paragon, I like the way you think. I’m looking through each persons ISO posts, got anything you’d like to specifically get my opinion on?
And aloes, I mostly agree with you RE: 135 and Conspire. The single post also reads like he’s trying to seem more involved than he actually is.
Hi, eyestott! I would love to get your thoughts on Y'shtola Rhul. She seemed to vote for Fuzzy with little thought, and has not provided much independent opinions of her own. When I asked her for her read and reasoning on Aloratom, I wasn't very satisfied with her response, as it lacked specifics and I couldn't really understand what she meant.
Okiedokie!
One thing of potential significance with Yshtola is this:
I am Y'shtola Rhul, and I have experience only in one completed game so far. I died quite fast, sadly.
Looking at the completed game, Yshtola played a Mason in a nightless setup with no daytalk, so essentially an inno who knows that some other people are inno. This lack of scum experience could potentially lead to her making rather rookie mistakes, so I won't be ruling out scumtells on the basis of it being an easy mistake to avoid.
I'm doing the mafTiger theme this whole ass game, so, all of y'all are morally obligated to immediately choose how long I remain in this game pending on how sane you want me to be.
In post 5, Yshtola Rhul wrote:Hello! I am Y'shtola Rhul, a scholar in aetherology and member of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.
Feel free to ask me questions at any time!
yo, wanna wagon with me?
VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99
tElL mE mOrE aBoUt BeInG a ToWn PoTaTo
Sure, I'm willing to help with wagons.
VOTE: TheFuzzylogic99
Doesn't particularly indicate towniness or scumminess, though I feel like a first-time scum would definitely be a bit keen to get their violence started.
Posts #57, #63, and #92
Yshtola Rhul wrote:Is there anything specific that you would like to know, Taly?
I liked that you're not afraid to put a vote down, but do you even have a reason to suspect
Fuzzy
? How do you feel about
pops'
vote since she is concerned with yours?
I am afraid that the aether of the players within the game are muddled for me at the moment. If you ask me later on, I might have a clearer idea of whether they are Warriors of Light or Sin Eaters.
Meh... so you don't have any specific read? What's your vote for?
Did you not ask for my vote? I voted to help you wagon TheFuzzylogic99 as requested.
Yeah, but why did you? I asked, I didn't demand.
Because you asked!
seems to indicate a lack of experience more than a specific alignment, I feel.
However, her posts replying to Paragon about Aloratom (#123 and #131) are a bit of a red flag to me:
In post 95, Paragon wrote:Y'shtola Rhul! What comes to mind when you think of Aloratom?
Other than how handsome he is obviously.
He could stand to raise his voice some more, but otherwise he's quite alright.
Mind explaining where these feelings of quite alrightness come from?
I like his matter of fairness. It is quite refreshing, actually.
While the chance of Yshtola and Aloratom both being scum is statistically quite low, I believe that this is the exact way that someone like Yshtola would talk about their scum-mate. And fairness? Why does fairness equate to towniness? Part 2: Aloratom coming soon.
Townity case/reads on Y'shtola.
I stopped here; is that enough, Taly?
eyestott, look deep inside your heart and realise I'm town. Using a gimmick as a tactic of distraction as scum is silly due to all the negative attention it'd recieve (in this case), and it's never even crossed my mind to use a gimmick for anything other than fun. If you took away the gimmick, what would your read on me be?
I'm fine with an alliance, you seem useful to keep around regardless of alignment. I will have to reexamine your posts once again before I can confidently townbloc you however.
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:37 am
by popsofctown
I felt like Fuzzy was barely over the threshhold as a wagon with some info to it, and Y'shtola is barely not.
Especially because her posting is like... indefensible?
I'm kind of pocketed by roleplay accounts, I was almost upset when my scumpartner dayvigged her in M&M
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:39 am
by Paragon
I would like popsofctown to be town for once, so I have decided that she is infact town. I would like her to know that I am
not
a framer.
Y'shtola Rhul, who is this sin-bringer you speak of that has entered our ranks? Is it popsofctown or someone else?
A Sign of a Red Colour, sporting the word "Stop"
Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2020 2:47 am
by Paragon
Taco, could I ask for your opinion on 388 and 644?
