Open 780: Chromavalon - GAME OVER

[SirCakez]

BM was tunneled on me the whole time he was here because I was pushing him. Who else would he have voted?:

[SirCakez]

I'd consider all of these handwaving except for the PP answer

And the PP answer just flat out ignored PP's last post

[Hiraki]

yes, just quote the post and then call it bad...that sounds like something to me...can't put my finger on it though

[Hiraki]

BM was tunneled on me the whole time he was here because I was pushing him. Who else would he have voted?:

Didn't know you had to vote the person who was pushing you? This just sounds more planned when you phrase it this way.

I'd consider all of these handwaving except for the PP answer

And the PP answer just flat out ignored PP's last post

No? How did I flat out ignore it? He is saying that the logic behind it being me is that I would have bussed BM over you because I voted him. What did you do two posts later? You hammered him. His entire point is that scum is bussing. Flat out ignoring it would be doing literally anything other than what I did.

[SirCakez]

I declared I was going to hammer well before PP's post. You're just ignoring that he said he thought it was you. You're trying to twist the logic behind it but you can't erase what he said.

[Hiraki]

No, I am not ignoring it. I'm explaining why he said that and how you did exactly what he accused me of doing.

[Five Candles]

My head is telling me to hammer Dessert Merlin, but my gut is telling me to hammer Blindfolded Merlin.

Cakez is good at AtEing...

[Hiraki]

He's also lying for most of the last two pages but I guess the AtE is drawing you in??? Have you been reading??

[Five Candles]

Cakez, what did you have to reply with to confirm your Merlin PM? Didn't you have to provide your buddies names or something?

[Hiraki]

Consider that Hiraki opened day 3 voting for Galron instead of BM.

In fact, reading this more and more makes me think that this is SirCakez trying to dig deeper to figure out which Merlin I am. This is why I do not want to answer any questions. Not because I don't want to pin down SirCakez but that there's still a second layer of the game once SirCakez gets lynched.

He also casually dodged this without ever expanding on his question but yeah, I guess that's

handwaving

or I guess as you're now calling it

AtE

i do not get how this is a struggle at the moment, he didn't even know that Merlins knew who each other were. that is not something that a Merlin - who has to read his role PM to find out that they confirm by reading the rules which say that information already BEFORE they can confirm into the game - forgets

p-edit, thank you

I actually have been

incorrect

in my explanations. The fact that Merlins know each other is AFTER the confirmation code (see post 1) so missing it is actually MORE probable for scum that didn't care to read the rules.

[Hiraki]

I would really love to quote the above to make it pinpoint obvious how he just missed it when trying to formulate his fakeclaim here but that is against site rules, AFAIK (moderator communication rule). If it's not, I would be more than willing to go into the nitty gritty details but I will do it below in text.

In order for Cakez to

forget

that he has Merlin buddies he has to -

1) Read his role PM, skip the line that says "here are your Merlin buddies" but read the lines before AND after because he knows that BM is scum and that he has to confirm using something other than "/confirm" - again this is public knowledge on the role PMs, please take a look for yourself.
2) In order to get the confirmation code, Cakez is supposed to read the rules and get to confirm. He reads in these rules at the very minimum the first four rules - none of which confirm that Merlins know who each other are. This is AFTER the confirmation code but again, why read the rules if you're not a Merlin? Scum just needs to make sure they need to win and figure out who the Merlins are.
3) In order for Cakez to confirm, he then has to go back into that same role PM, not read it and write down the confirmation word to confirm. I can answer your question for you 5C that I did not need to write down my Merlin buddies, just the confirmation word. Sorry if that was going to be important somehow.

BONUS: Upon review of the SCUM PMs, these have zero indication that the Merlins know each other. In fact, the wording

almost

makes it sound like they don't know each other (read the line Avalon line) and only know who their matching target is (which is EXACTLY what SirCakez claimed).

[Five Candles]

But BM knew the Merlins knew each other. He mentioned it a previous post of his. If Cakez is scum, it's because he forgot about the logic when you CCed him and didn't put himself in the right perspective.

[Hiraki]

And is that so illogical? To be annoyed after forgetting something so crucial?

[Hiraki]

I get how you could forget all of this as mafia. I do not even see a sliver of an argument that you forget any of this as a Merlin. The answer is that Merlin doesn't forget that because it's in his role PM. Mafia doesn't need to read the role PM to fakeclaim. This is why he's frustrated.

[SirCakez]

He's also lying for most of the last two pages but I guess the AtE is drawing you in??? Have you been reading??

Lying about what lol

Cakez, what did you have to reply with to confirm your Merlin PM? Didn't you have to provide your buddies names or something?

No just the word from the ruleset
I suppose I read past the other Merlins part in my role PM and just forgot...my memory is shaky about it tbh.

Consider that Hiraki opened day 3 voting for Galron instead of BM.

In fact, reading this more and more makes me think that this is SirCakez trying to dig deeper to figure out which Merlin I am. This is why I do not want to answer any questions. Not because I don't want to pin down SirCakez but that there's still a second layer of the game once SirCakez gets lynched.

He also casually dodged this without ever expanding on his question but yeah, I guess that's

handwaving

or I guess as you're now calling it

AtE

i do not get how this is a struggle at the moment, he didn't even know that Merlins knew who each other were. that is not something that a Merlin - who has to read his role PM to find out that they confirm by reading the rules which say that information already BEFORE they can confirm into the game - forgets

p-edit, thank you

I actually have been

incorrect

in my explanations. The fact that Merlins know each other is AFTER the confirmation code (see post 1) so missing it is actually MORE probable for scum that didn't care to read the rules.

How is me saying your vote on Galron instead of BM looks scummy = digging for Merlin info

[SirCakez]

My head is telling me to hammer Dessert Merlin, but my gut is telling me to hammer Blindfolded Merlin.

Cakez is good at AtEing...

Look at any of my recent mislynches if you want to meta this

[Hiraki]

Because you're trying to figure out who I have as my Merlin target?

[Hiraki]

This is why I don't want to speak anymore in this game. I am giving out information that I shouldn't need to. I also don't like how SirCakez drops arguments just because I answered them correctly. He had a whole list of items and then when I answer them, they just disappear because the darts didn't stick to the board.

[SirCakez]

Yeah ok
I'm curious what 5C has to say

[Hiraki]

If you're trying to insinuate I'm scummy for voting Galron, do you remember who you voted D3? The literal next post?

[SirCakez]

ok let me bring up another thing now that I know 5C is town
why would I kill PP here? he was on my side.
and before you say "frame job" obviously that is not working if I were scum here.

It's not really helpful to talk about this I don't think. It gives you slight town points but that's about it.

I more want to talk about why you bothered to shade enomis at all if you weren't pushing him. If you're a Merlin and worried about looking like the Red one for pushing enomis, then why weirdly shade him instead of just not doing that and drawing suspicion?

That's why I kept him in my backburner pool of scum with some other lurker-types. I wanted it to look like he was just one of a pool of suspects I was considering. I didn't think that I could force a lynch through on him early and I had other scumspects so I didn't see the point in full-pushing him.

Because I knew at that point that BM would be getting lynched within the next few days regardless because of how scummy he was playing so I wanted to push on other suspects

VOTE: galron
Him and Battle Mage need death.

Why Galron first?

I don't have a preference
Hiraki voted Galron first so I figured wagon up

And this

My Galron SR was realllly strong

[Hiraki]

Ok - so what does that have to do with me?

[Hiraki]

If anything, you're validating that my SR was in-line with yours...which is why it's scummy?

[SirCakez]

It's why I voted Galron instead of BM
I don't believe that's your reasoning too

[Five Candles]

I'll hammer someone on Friday 100% so you won't need to replace out, Dessert Merlin. I can't think of any other questions to ask you guys so I'm just thinking really.

The whole game for me hinges on whether Cakez could actually go this whole game without knowing his fellow Merlins as a Merlin. Or if he's scum that actually just managed to come up with an excuse in record time once realising he slipped. I hate my anti--OMGUS tendency to townread people who rage at me but that might be playing a part with how Cakez got angry at me earlier.

But then, was the TSE vote indicative of town or scum!Hiraki? I've come back around to thinking town, since TSE was definitely not buried at that point, which is evident to how he was voting Shocking Merlin after that who is town, so he clearly wasn't trying to distance or bus even at the end.

BM's vote and push on Cakez 3 days ago looks legit, but his vote yesterday looks very fake.

Hiraki being afraid to talk based on scum having the Merlin wincon gives me townpings. It comes at the expense of looking like he's using it as an excuse to avoid questions to me potential, so I think I like it.

Actually, having said that all, I think I'm still gonna hammer Dessert Merlin. There were a couple of times this day phase where gun to head, I would actually hammer Blindfolded Merlin, but I'm back here.