Open 804: Popcorn Mafia Redux [Game Over!]

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Does anyone have any questions for me

I’m kind of ready for someone to get shot

I did ask for your thoughts on what was happening on page 19 awhile back (actually /on/ page 19).

[Norfolk Boy1]

I think there could be a scum in Duchess v Lotus but honestly their posts are so blah to me I just can't get a grasp on it at all.

I agree, but I don't see it being Lotus.

Wheme, if you had the gun and it was 2 minutes to deadline, who are you busting a cap in?

[Imperium]

Does anyone have any questions for me

I’m kind of ready for someone to get shot

I know you’re scum reading duchess, but what do you think of lotus’ reasoning?

[WhemeStar]

Page 19 was a lot of cakez mis interpreting imperium. It kind of solidified imperium town for me but I’m not really sure about cakez.

Lotus’s reasoning on what?

[WhemeStar]

I think I have a town read on lotus. I agree with their points on duchess and I agree with their read list

[WhemeStar]

I think there could be a scum in Duchess v Lotus but honestly their posts are so blah to me I just can't get a grasp on it at all.

I agree, but I don't see it being Lotus.

Wheme, if you had the gun and it was 2 minutes to deadline, who are you busting a cap in?

I think not mafia or Dunn is a good first shot.

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Hmm. You seem sensitive to these sort of dynamics, Wheme; would you say that the conversation was being pushed forward more by Imperium or by Cakez? What I mean is, if one of them dropped off the face of the earth at random during that, which one would have kept posting longer, in your opinion?

[WhemeStar]

She didn't mention that post, so you are pushing me on my original thoughts, correct?

You said this was a read "on the back of mush". Now you are doubling back and claiming it's still scummy that we both scumread him despite having different reasons, all while claiming that I am piggybacking people's reads without contributing anything of my own? It's like Imperium said, you can't have your cake and eat it too. There are so many logical holes in your read of me that I struggle to see it coming from an honest approach to the game, and rather from a tactical positioning against a potential town leader.

My point isn't that you can't make up generic reads about the people you supposedly think are scummy, because that is what I am saying you are doing. Same thing you did with WhemeStar and Norfolk. You saw that other people are scum reading them, add in your fluff, and frame it as your original thought (I previously said this is what you are doing). That is what is scummy.

The reason I am falling deeper and deeper in the Duchess is scum hole is because you are being disingenuous with your responses to me. Instead of engaging with the core of my arguments against you, you are focusing on finding "loopholes" or verbal trip ups in my case against you. For example, why is it that every scum read you give comes directly after someone else gives a read of that person? Can you expand on your reads more so that they don't seem like half hearted one liners with the purpose of piling onto someone else's read?

I really like this post

[WhemeStar]

Hmm. You seem sensitive to these sort of dynamics, Wheme; would you say that the conversation was being pushed forward more by Imperium or by Cakez? What I mean is, if one of them dropped off the face of the earth at random during that, which one would have kept posting longer, in your opinion?

I don’t get why you think I’m sensitive to the dynamics. I think imperium was more invested in the conversation as they were questioned by more people and as a result had to defend themselves more. I don’t get why people think imperium was hard defending Norfolk when they weren’t. I myself was confused why people were scumreading Norfolk like crazy. It came after my “shoot Norfolk” post which was just a meme because they said they were glad they didn’t receive the gun.

[WhemeStar]

Has ABR been replaced yet?

[WhemeStar]

VOTE: ScrewTheTells
VOTE: Norfolk boy
VOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: SirCakez

Probably two scum in there

Looking back on this, does scum make this post?

[MUSHSHAGANA]

ABR was replaced by unwnd immediately, Wheme.

Also: thanks for your input on page 19. I want to see Duchess's answers on it as well before I start making statements about what I saw.

[WhemeStar]

Oh he replaced ABR nice.

[WhemeStar]

I think I have too many townreads.

[WhemeStar]

I townread lotus imperium mush unwnd

[WhemeStar]

I think cakez/duchess is scum

[Dunnstral]

Oh, and one more thing. Anyone who townreads STT, I'm going to be looking through the lists. I would very much like you to explain yourselves. In great, exhaustive detail. Really beat the hell out of your belief that STT is town, /challenge yourself/, because I will throw down a /solid/ wager that you are wrong. Say, winner gets to control the loser's first shot when they inevitably get the gun (because this is gonna look /real/ bad for whoever is wrong, and they shouldn't trust themselves to hit shit anyway). I'm not joking or exaggerating, STT looks awful here, and you can check Death Curse to see that I'm right. ISO Zdenek, and Ctrl+F "MUSH". Recognize that Zdenek was replaced by Frederick A Campbell, who was our very first scum kill in Death Curse, and opened the door to red flip city. I am putting my bet down, I want anyone who thinks I'm wrong to put their money where their mouth is and/or eat lead.

I'm open for reconsideration. I do like their posts so far, I don't see how what happened in death curse is relevant here though since they're different people. To be clear, I'm not familiar with what happened in death curse.

I did like STT's posts, starting from the second one. The way he is looking at norfolk being above baseline for scum resonates with me

[SirCakez]

Yeah I’m done this is useless. I don’t even know where the goalposts are anymore. You keep moving them.

For the record, no I wasn’t thinking that at the time because I’m torn and those are my real actual genuine town thoughts.

If I were scum, I absolutely would be thinking about how my posts are coming across. I’m not dumb.

But I’m done.

Ftr I didn't want to continue this argument, you're trying to win something that is unwinnable.
Let's move on.

[SirCakez]

That's win as in "win"
Nobody really wins in arguments like this

[SirCakez]

I think there could be a scum in Duchess v Lotus but honestly their posts are so blah to me I just can't get a grasp on it at all.

I agree, but I don't see it being Lotus.

Wheme, if you had the gun and it was 2 minutes to deadline, who are you busting a cap in?

Can you elaborate on why it's Duchess then?

[Imperium]

I just want to stop being misrepped to hell and back.

It is impossible to be understood when someone refuses to interact with you in good faith, Yes it is.

[WhemeStar]

I just want to stop being misrepped to hell and back.

It is impossible to be understood when someone refuses to interact with you in good faith, Yes it is.

From my experienxe people who misrep are scum. I think cakez is scum

[Dunnstral]

I think we've entered the part of the game where people are arguing in circles about the same things

[MUSHSHAGANA]

Oh, and one more thing. Anyone who townreads STT, I'm going to be looking through the lists. I would very much like you to explain yourselves. In great, exhaustive detail. Really beat the hell out of your belief that STT is town, /challenge yourself/, because I will throw down a /solid/ wager that you are wrong. Say, winner gets to control the loser's first shot when they inevitably get the gun (because this is gonna look /real/ bad for whoever is wrong, and they shouldn't trust themselves to hit shit anyway). I'm not joking or exaggerating, STT looks awful here, and you can check Death Curse to see that I'm right. ISO Zdenek, and Ctrl+F "MUSH". Recognize that Zdenek was replaced by Frederick A Campbell, who was our very first scum kill in Death Curse, and opened the door to red flip city. I am putting my bet down, I want anyone who thinks I'm wrong to put their money where their mouth is and/or eat lead.

I'm open for reconsideration. I do like their posts so far, I don't see how what happened in death curse is relevant here though since they're different people. To be clear, I'm not familiar with what happened in death curse.

I did like STT's posts, starting from the second one. The way he is looking at norfolk being above baseline for scum resonates with me

The fact is that town doesn't have any reason to approach this specific thing in this specific way. The issue: I don't play like other people /at all/. Almost all town players will recognize that that is not scummy in and of itself. Those who don't will be convinced I'm scum and be totally inflexible and unwilling to humor other possibilities about it until I start to hit red with my pushes.

But STT doesn't do either of these. STT pushes a narrative where I am scum, yes... But STT leaves an escape hatch where I might be town. This escape hatch appears to be ONLY based on meta -- and specifically calls for the rest of the player list to jump in on it.

You know what that looks like to me? That looks like someone looking to see if they can get away with talking utter nonsense about me without being called out by anyone else.

The relevant part is Zdenek in Death Curse did the exact same thing. I found it insanely scummy, indicative of scum who was trying to look for someone they could put hard pressure on for garbage reasons, and I was right.

Now, the problem with your defense here is that it's all reasons why it seems townie, and doesn't say a damn thing about why it /doesn't/ seem scummy. The entire goal of the scum is to seem townie, after all, right? So you are, at best here, just saying that STT is town or reasonably effective scum -- so we can rule out garbo scum play from the slot. Unfortunately, that should be self-evident, so it tells us absolutely fuck all.

From my perspective, you have three options. Take my wager, explain why STT isn't scummy well enough to convince me that you believe it, or get in the scumpit.

[WhemeStar]

I think we've entered the part of the game where people are arguing in circles about the same things

That’s why I said we need someone to get shot