In post 672, Infinity 324 wrote:GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town
indeed
my vote is on gc in, like, spirt but i'm not voting as it's e-1 and i feel like with no-mafia in the game that's getting a little too close to potentially ending the day and i'm not quite ready for that yet
also i townread gamma to some extent
also if gc is scum i think he's explicitly *not* the bomb so maybe we want to try to find the bomb instead idk
In post 661, Dumb and Dumber wrote:ok and the followup is: i feel like he's exhibiting a certain level of newbie-townie-earnestness in solving. do you not see that? and can i get a quick tldr on why you're scumreading him again?
~ skitter
No but feel free to point it out.
1. His slippery responses to Dragons
2. His unvote of Infinity
3. The “lol I look better than you” interjection to my Q to penguin
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:17 pm
by Green Crayons
In post 672, Infinity 324 wrote:GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town
What a bad take.
I’ve talked through my suspicions with you and murder off the top of my head. Just bc you’re not convinced doesn’t mean I’m not engaging.
There’s nothing to say about the SRs on me. They’re wrong and I’m not even sure what they’re based on other than ppl not liking my shadow suspicions/sticking with those suspicions. I also don’t really care about the votes on me. But I also am not getting suspicious vibes from anyone in particular who is voting me bc of their vote, so I’m doubly uninterested in beating someone up for their bad gc vote to see if I can shake out a scum.
In post 672, Infinity 324 wrote:GC was talking about shadow but like. He's not engaging with people who disagree with him on shadow, he's just tunneled on obvtown because he has no way to walk it back. He also has no reaction to the SRs on him and townies usually hate it when I SR them, whereas scum know that my gut read is valid. He isn't town
Feeding a baby at 4AM and got nothing to do but stew on just how bad of a take this is.
“Tunneled but no way to walk it back” - tunneling isn’t AI; your suggestion that I should want to walk it back implies that I should know that I’m wrong about shadow, which either is a slip from scum you or pretty big ego flex about your assuredness in reading shadow.
“Town usually hate it when I SR them” - I cannot express enough how comically unsound a rule about how players sometimes react to your bad reads is. You’re comparing my reaction to other players meta (bad) that isn’t even a uniform course of action (double bad)—which means I am also acting like those town players who don’t get bent out of shape over your wrong alignment reads of them
Posted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:40 pm
by Green Crayons
Also just bc shadow is my #1 suspect doesn’t mean I’ve tunneled, and you should feel bad for using this terminology incorrectly.
Penguin will soon be serving you with an appropriate monetary fine shortly.
Oh yeah Lilith told me about this """townblock""" Auro made
It sucks the only one in there who seems townie enough to be in a townblock is Salsabil
In post 657, YyottaCat wrote:Is not being helpful to the game a scum indicative then? I don't think I'm being helpful but I'm trying.
You're missing my point
You need to look at motivations for things
WHY is someone being helpful?
Are they normally helpful?
In post 662, shadowslug wrote:i'll be honest i have no idea what to do anymore since that whole ongoing games debacle just kinda took the wind outta the game a bit
also no idea who maf is lol
It's you my dude
Where's Koba with their finger pointing meme when you need it?
In post 684, Green Crayons wrote:There’s nothing to say about the SRs on me. They’re wrong and I’m not even sure what they’re based on other than ppl not liking my shadow suspicions/sticking with those suspicions. I also don’t really care about the votes on me. But I also am not getting suspicious vibes from anyone in particular who is voting me bc of their vote, so I’m doubly uninterested in beating someone up for their bad gc vote to see if I can shake out a scum.
In post 116, Daenerys and Dragons wrote:I don’t really think skitter came off as defensive, maybe like.. confused that infinity assumed a reason for her read that wasn’t true and wasn’t stated. Can we instead talk about why shadowslug seems to think her response is “annoyed in a defensive way”?
- Daenerys
I don't think it's AI (for shadow)
Yeah but did you see his 121?
In post 139, Green Crayons wrote:Avoiding (twice!) the question while attacking the player questioning your behavior is very new player scum behavior.
In post 182, Green Crayons wrote:So is your problem that I'm too certain in my read or that I'm conflicted?
You're going to have to settle on which one you want to say makes me scum so you can finally finish this tiresome windup.
idk you're the one who thinks he's town, I just wanted to see if you saw anything wrong with it.
It's a combo of all three points that I think is scummy:
I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
AND
I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting
AND
I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion
Specifically why unvoting a town read of yours is scummy
sure it's because 8 posts earlier skitter puts infinity at 4/6
shadow is now on a leading wagon (the only wagon? honestly idk)
there's no indication that whatever reason shadow originally voted for infinity has gone away
so his unvote looks like he wants off that train for <reasons>
bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those <reasons> to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"
In post 207, Green Crayons wrote:^^^ preemptively agree that this isn't conclusive. just that it more likely aligns with having knowledge about infinity's alignment at the time of unvote when i don't think that assessment was likely or probably from shadow's POV without scum knowledge
also it's tied with the other two points which I think adds to why the unvote is suspicious
In post 211, Green Crayons wrote:yes, if at the time of shadow's unvote there was some suggestion that shadow had a view that infinity was town
there's no suggestion that the reason for shadow's vote had been addressed
In post 223, shadowslug wrote:I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.
So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?
In post 340, shadowslug wrote:Why would I not want to be on a miselim wagon? I wouldn't care if Infinity gets quick elim'd as maf. I'm hardly going to cop suspicion just for having voted him. Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense. Why does it feel like you've already concluded I'm maf and are just trying to find things to justify your read?
this
ignores my interaction with murdercat so he can be have some sort of defense
while also
further winding up waiting for those 3/4 votes on GC so he can finally shift over
"Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense." ==> ignores the back-and-forth with Murder where I explain how shadow-scum wouldn't want to be on a mis-elim, how he lacked any change in view of the infinity slot between time of vote and unvote, and ignores the other two reasons for why his unvote is suspicious
In post 474, Green Crayons wrote:Penguin, are you checked out bc your partners are shadow and cat?
why would he be checked out if that was the case? i'm coming off this altercation way better than you are lol
not seeing how this comes from town
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:47 am
by Daenerys and Dragons
hello. quick pop-in for me today. I walked away from the site for a day because I could feel my mental state affecting the game and didn’t want it to turn toxic/affect the game more than it already had. work has been really really awful, especially recently, but it’s not fair for me to take it out on the game. I totally recognize that and am going to take some more time away until I’m feeling in a better spot mentally to process this game and be productive.
that being said, gamma, saying “yall have so much drama” after I already walked away to prevent myself from affecting the thread further is low and unnecessary. and, again, I know on the outside it seems like “this interaction is so pointless,” but every single time I get into a fight like this, the other person is scum. It turns into this big of a fight because I’m stubborn and won’t let the issue go. One time I apologized and backed off, and the scum PR that I was fighting with lived until D5. I’m trying to trust my instincts about this more, and my instinct here was that auro couldn’t figure out how to pivot when it became clear why I was “overreacting.”
final point - auro now says he thinks we’re town but we’re not in his proposed townbloc. why is that? :thonk:
however, as mena once said, skitter is a bad D1 elim. I’m not really interested in pursuing their elimination today, but I’m very much
not
convinced that they’re town. when I get back I’ll try to be more involved in sorting other slots for today’s elim.
be back tomorrow.
- Daenerys
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 6:53 am
by Gamma Emerald
sorry
it's just I'm having trouble making any useful sense of y'alls interaction so I'm kinda disdainful towards it
like "all this talk kinda amounted to nothing ime"
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:12 am
by Dumb and Dumber
In post 683, Green Crayons wrote:1. His slippery responses to Dragons
2. His unvote of Infinity
3. The “lol I look better than you” interjection to my Q to penguin
(2) I had to scroll all the way to the top of his ISO to see, and was it something you mentioned or questioned him about earlier? Do you feel there's any special motivation for him to do that as scum?
I couldn't really find (1) and (3) from an ISO skim, and couldn't find any more from your ISO either. Can you please quote the relevant parts?
-Dumbass
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:15 am
by Dumb and Dumber
Not_Mafia *prod* where be the shitposts? Both of us are disappointed.
-Dumbass
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:28 am
by Not_Mafia
Shit
Posted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 8:58 am
by Green Crayons
In post 696, Dumb and Dumber wrote:(2) I had to scroll all the way to the top of his ISO to see, and was it something you mentioned or questioned him about earlier? Do you feel there's any special motivation for him to do that as scum?
Yes, there are several posts about this already (including with skitter):
idk you're the one who thinks he's town, I just wanted to see if you saw anything wrong with it.
It's a combo of all three points that I think is scummy:
I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
AND
I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting
AND
I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion
In post 194, Green Crayons wrote:I don't like that he unvotes insanity after that wagon gets 4 votes (esp. now I have good town feelings about insanity)
Specifically why unvoting a town read of yours is scummy
sure it's because 8 posts earlier skitter puts infinity at 4/6
shadow is now on a leading wagon (the only wagon? honestly idk)
there's no indication that whatever reason shadow originally voted for infinity has gone away
so his unvote looks like he wants off that train for <reasons>
bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those <reasons> to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"
In post 207, Green Crayons wrote:^^^ preemptively agree that this isn't conclusive. just that it more likely aligns with having knowledge about infinity's alignment at the time of unvote when i don't think that assessment was likely or probably from shadow's POV without scum knowledge
also it's tied with the other two points which I think adds to why the unvote is suspicious
bc I (now, looking back) think infinity is looking more like town, there's a greater probability for those to be "not wanting to be on a mis-elim wagon"
I guess I sort of knew this is what you would say so I should have been more clear. Isn't there also town motivation for doing the exact same action?
In post 211, Green Crayons wrote:yes, if at the time of shadow's unvote there was some suggestion that shadow had a view that infinity was town
there's no suggestion that the reason for shadow's vote had been addressed
and tell me on what basis between shadow's infinity vote in 37 to his unvote in 90 that shadow has a change of heart on infinity
I don't see it at all
shadow later piped up about his unvote:
Spoiler: GC & shadow
In post 223, shadowslug wrote:I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.
In post 223, shadowslug wrote:I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.
So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?
In post 223, shadowslug wrote:I unvoted infinity cos I thought 5 votes equaled a hammer btw. I don't think that Infinity post i quoted was even that scummy either, just an in the moment gut read thing.
So you paid enough attention to see that there was an infinity vote, but not enough attention to see that that very post said that it was six to hammer?
No I didn't read 82 when I unvoted, posts were coming in pretty quick at that time
Why would I not want to be on a miselim wagon? I wouldn't care if Infinity gets quick elim'd as maf. I'm hardly going to cop suspicion just for having voted him. Maybe you could argue my unvote was performative, which I'd accept even if it wasn't. But your current reasoning doesn't make sense. Why does it feel like you've already concluded I'm maf and are just trying to find things to justify your read?
Which doesn't pass the smell test.
"I was afraid of getting infinity to Elim -1/-2, so i unvoted"
-Okay, but the most recent vote for infinity explicitly said before the vote that it was E-6, you didn't read that post?
"No I wasn't reading posts"
So he was afraid of putting infinity close to elim, which would require him to be paying attention to vote posts. But if he was paying attention to vote posts, he would have seen skitter's vote post that said Elim was at 6. So he says that he didn't see skitter's vote post. But if he didn't see the vote post, he had no reason to be concerned about quick eliminating infinity!
It's just after-the-fact lies to cover up his actions.
shadow later went on to justify his unvote, but I didn't respond because nobody was listening to me and I don't find it productive to engage with likely scum:
Spoiler: shadow justification
In post 388, shadowslug wrote:I don't have a strong reason to vote Infinity in the first place. It's like page 2. Not a lock in scumread. Already said this. I don't need to provide a reason to unvote infinity either; you're taking an absence of reasoning on my part and drawing a cynical conclusion. If you wanted a reason you could have just asked rather than call me mafia.
"I don't like that he throws suspicion at another player while unvoting" - Ok? explain why this is a scumtell.
"I don't like that he doesn't vote to either replace his insanity vote or to follow through on his suspicion" - My suspicions were on skitter at that point, who I did follow up with. I don't need to vote.
Anything else I missed? Why are you so desperate for me to be mafia?
But since you're paying attention, D&D, I'll respond to this.
That he didn't have a good reason to vote infinity in the first place is NBD. Like, no shit. It was very early game. The problem for the unvote is that
nothing changed about infinity's play between the vote and unvote
. Also that his later justification for being afraid about a quick elim are BS, per the above.
The other two points (throwing suspicion elsewhere, but no vote) are suspicious because shadow had already displayed, per his infinity vote, that he is a player who is fine putting a vote down for less-than-stellar reasons. Note:
that isn't a problem, especially early game! It's good! I support it!
But by unvoting infinity while simultaneously shading skitter without a skitter vote is inconsistent with how shadow plays the game with his votes. That is--if he's a town player who throws down votes early to get a reaction, then presumably he would have unvoted infinity and voted skitter. Because he didn't act in conformity to his initial play suggests that he is being calculating with his votes.
