Micro 1005: Help Isis, Scholarship Student at Noon

[Sha 77]

Sha77 may legitimately be scum
Their opening was tonally weird and I hate this reaction

This just seemed too overconfident for me. Like you’re trying to get into a fight and not solve someone’s alignment. Sha said their early reads, which clearly were meant more as conversation starters than definitive pronouncements backed by multiple pages of play, weren’t actually all that serious (which again just seems reasonable to me since it’s the early part of the game). Yet you “hate” the reaction? What I would ask you is how do you not think this is a bit over the top?

I skimmed through some of your more recent posts - and now you’re constructing a universe for the game where I’m Scum because I thought maybe you pushed an argument a bit too far? Please. Unfortunately there’s an aggressiveness to it that I need to figure out where exactly it’s coming from, and whether it’s Scummy or not.

I wouldn’t vote to heal you, that’s for sure.

//

- Feels like he's concerned about Cakez scumreading him so is explaining why he said what he said and is attempting to change his mind

//

- Feels the need to clarify he's not healing Cakez under any circumstances - why clarify this? It just feels tonally off

Admittedly, I'm struggling to articulate what feels

scummy

about this exactly, but it just feels off

pedit: I scumread you, Andres, but I'm not incapable of changing my mind if I'm wrong

[Andresvmb]

The thing is that cakez has barely any influence in this gamestate

I don’t agree with this at all. I think SirCakez has a stronger voice than you’re giving them credit for. If you were making this argument about Flea or Pooky who barely have any reads or much input fine.

[Sha 77]

where did I construct a universe where you're scum? I think you are scummy but I don't think you HAVE to be.

You wrote that Alisae and I are Scummy but probably not both Scum.

Alisae is actually reading me correctly, you’re not, yet we’re both Scummy.

It’s completely manufactured.

What does this mean? Since Alisae is reading Andres as town, Cakez shouldn't be reading both of them as scummy? The logic makes no sense to me

[Infinity 324]

The thing is that cakez has barely any influence in this gamestate

I don’t agree with this at all. I think SirCakez has a stronger voice than you’re giving them credit for. If you were making this argument about Flea or Pooky who barely have any reads or much input fine.

He has a loud voice but a bunch of people are SRing him and people are probably not gonna sheep his reads

[Andresvmb]

pedit: I scumread you, Andres, but I'm not incapable of changing my mind if I'm wrong

You are wrong. You’re responsible for your read though, I’m not. I want to win, so I’ll try and clarify stuff that’s asked. But don’t put the onus on me for getting stuff wrong. It’s not like I have been silent or not contributing.

[Sha 77]

do not vote me :3 we do not need me being in charge of explosions

This makes me want to vote you. In fact I’ll do just that.

HEAL: Flea The Magician

I don’t think this is reverse psychology, so it’s probably just a Townie shying away from responsibility. We should consider it.

Flimsy reason to heal someone. I don't think anyone picked up on Flea being likely town for this extremely short and easy to fake line. scum!Andres has TMI or is just faking this push, but it's a struggle to believe he actually thinks this

HEAL: Sha 77

I’m happy sheeping you here too. I think Alisae is likely to be Town here.

Happy to sheep Alisae on me, but not just heal Alisae directly? The thought processes just don't seem natural here

though it'd be very funny if alisae and andres were some sort of scum faction together and i pinned them like that

This is bad. I can’t tell whether you’re misguided or Scum, but I find it fascinating that this early you think you’ve correctly figured out the Scum Team with such confidence.

Ydrasse said it with not a lot of confidence at all, she just humoured it. This is another thing that just makes me go ???

[Andresvmb]

where did I construct a universe where you're scum? I think you are scummy but I don't think you HAVE to be.

You wrote that Alisae and I are Scummy but probably not both Scum.

Alisae is actually reading me correctly, you’re not, yet we’re both Scummy.

It’s completely manufactured.

What does this mean? Since Alisae is reading Andres as town, Cakez shouldn't be reading both of them as scummy? The logic makes no sense to me

Alisae was one of the few players at that stage (i) reading me correctly and (ii) actively defending me. You’ll notice Ydrasse had a SR of my slot, and SirCakez was attacking me. SR’ing the one player that’s defending me while also attacking me is a classic way of diminishing Alisae’s ability to sway the rest of the Town into a correct read of my slot. Because yeah maybe I’m Town, but then Alisae is Scum, so can they be trusted? It pushes both of us to the fringe. That’s why I was extremely skeptical of that.

[Sha 77]

And even if you find me Scummy, you can probably guess that I wouldn’t so openly push my Partner as the selection when they haven’t been close to the leading vote getter.

This feels like something scum are so much more likely to say, given it's a perspective that comes so much easier from scum, while as town, you'd have to actively think this is an issue for others and put yourself in that perspective

[Andresvmb]

// - Feels like he's concerned about Cakez scumreading him so is explaining why he said what he said and is attempting to change his mind

Let me very clear. I don’t give much of a shit about people SR me when I’m Town. I am more concerned about getting stuff right. Me expressing my uncertainty is just that. If SirCakez wants to maintain a position that’s wrong, that’s entirety up to them.

[Sha 77]

where did I construct a universe where you're scum? I think you are scummy but I don't think you HAVE to be.

You wrote that Alisae and I are Scummy but probably not both Scum.

Alisae is actually reading me correctly, you’re not, yet we’re both Scummy.

It’s completely manufactured.

What does this mean? Since Alisae is reading Andres as town, Cakez shouldn't be reading both of them as scummy? The logic makes no sense to me

Alisae was one of the few players at that stage (i) reading me correctly and (ii) actively defending me. You’ll notice Ydrasse had a SR of my slot, and SirCakez was attacking me. SR’ing the one player that’s defending me while also attacking me is a classic way of diminishing Alisae’s ability to sway the rest of the Town into a correct read of my slot. Because yeah maybe I’m Town, but then Alisae is Scum, so can they be trusted? It pushes both of us to the fringe. That’s why I was extremely skeptical of that.

Why does scum!Cakez base all of his reads around attacking you? You're saying he's scumreading Alisae just so he can disregard Alisae's read on you and also scumreasd you, but purpose that does serve him during a phase where people are looking for town and neither you or Alisae are in contention anyway?

[Sha 77]

*what purpose does that serve him

I'm so scatterbrained right now lol

[Andresvmb]

// - Feels the need to clarify he's not healing Cakez under any circumstances - why clarify this? It just feels tonally off

Did I say I wouldn’t vote to heal them under any circumstances? That’s not what I said. Besides, what are you criticizing exactly? At that stage, I wasn’t actively TR’ing them. A vote for healing is a vote for a player you think is Town. So why would I do that? I was explaining that despite not being sure whether I felt they were Scum or not, I wouldn’t actively push them as a Town leader. Why is that tonally off? Your argument is just flimsy and hard to attack, which is why it’s phrased this way.

[Andresvmb]

Why does scum!Cakez base all of his reads around attacking you? You're saying he's scumreading Alisae just so he can disregard Alisae's read on you and also scumreasd you, but purpose that does serve him during a phase where people are looking for town and neither you or Alisae are in contention anyway?

That was early - you don’t know this. Of course it serves a purpose. This is like asking why would Scum try to make it harder for the rest of the Town to vote one of their own? I don’t know, to win?

[Sha 77]

My ideal 5 right now would be Sha/tris/Infinity/Alisae/Flea

Or Ydrasse/tris/Infinity/Alisae

huh, the 5th for Ydrasse is a tough one - it's Andres who I think is scum, or Pooky that's null and a complete wildcard

I guess it'd have to be Pooky obviously

[Sha 77]

Why does scum!Cakez base all of his reads around attacking you? You're saying he's scumreading Alisae just so he can disregard Alisae's read on you and also scumreasd you, but purpose that does serve him during a phase where people are looking for town and neither you or Alisae are in contention anyway?

That was early - you don’t know this. Of course it serves a purpose. This is like asking why would Scum try to make it harder for the rest of the Town to vote one of their own? I don’t know, to win?

But was anyone else agreeing with Cakez? Were you or Alisae likely to be healed despite what Cakez was saying? Did Cakez push for himself to be healed? No to all

So I'm not sure how you can get a narrative for that being a useful scum motivation for Cakez

[Andresvmb]

do not vote me :3 we do not need me being in charge of explosions

This makes me want to vote you. In fact I’ll do just that.

HEAL: Flea The Magician

I don’t think this is reverse psychology, so it’s probably just a Townie shying away from responsibility. We should consider it.

Flimsy reason to heal someone. I don't think anyone picked up on Flea being likely town for this extremely short and easy to fake line. scum!Andres has TMI or is just faking this push, but it's a struggle to believe he actually thinks this

HEAL: Sha 77

I’m happy sheeping you here too. I think Alisae is likely to be Town here.

Happy to sheep Alisae on me, but not just heal Alisae directly? The thought processes just don't seem natural here

though it'd be very funny if alisae and andres were some sort of scum faction together and i pinned them like that

This is bad. I can’t tell whether you’re misguided or Scum, but I find it fascinating that this early you think you’ve correctly figured out the Scum Team with such confidence.

Ydrasse said it with not a lot of confidence at all, she just humoured it. This is another thing that just makes me go ???

Nothing here are even remotely good reasons to SR me. What is wrong about me sheeping a TR onto a player that’s gathering some votes? And why is my reasoning so horrible? It’s a way to get perspectives on Flea, who nobody seemed to be paying much attention to. Even if I fail to get them to be a Leader, at least we get some views from other players, see what their thought process is. Do you just want me to put out fully formed perfect reads with unassailable logic?

[Andresvmb]

Ydrasse said it with not a lot of confidence at all, she just humoured it. This is another thing that just makes me go ???

Why did you ignore my correction that came soon thereafter?

[Andresvmb]

Why does scum!Cakez base all of his reads around attacking you? You're saying he's scumreading Alisae just so he can disregard Alisae's read on you and also scumreasd you, but purpose that does serve him during a phase where people are looking for town and neither you or Alisae are in contention anyway?

That was early - you don’t know this. Of course it serves a purpose. This is like asking why would Scum try to make it harder for the rest of the Town to vote one of their own? I don’t know, to win?

But was anyone else agreeing with Cakez? Were you or Alisae likely to be healed despite what Cakez was saying? Did Cakez push for himself to be healed? No to all

So I'm not sure how you can get a narrative for that being a useful scum motivation for Cakez

Scum want to sideline Town to influence the vote either for someone that’s TR’ing them, or to improve the odds that they or their partner is picked. Did I push for myself to be healed? No. So what?

[Sha 77]

Ydrasse said it with not a lot of confidence at all, she just humoured it. This is another thing that just makes me go ???

Why did you ignore my correction that came soon thereafter?

Because I called you out on it lol

If you do something scummy and get called out on it, you can correct it, sure, but it doesn't make the first instance any less scummy or gone

[Sha 77]

Anyway, this isn't the time or place for a toxic 1v1 and I'm going back to playing TFT Set 5 on the PBE :]

I haven't read up on the day yet because I've been somewhat

distracted

but I'd like to see what people think of this assessment on Andres. When I was reading overnight it sort of just clicked for me and I was thinking "oh wow, this is obviously scum, I don't know how I didn't see this earlier", but now reading back, it's not as clear to me as it was then, but I still have a scumread there. The main thing that I just don't believe on his side is that push to HEAL Flea - it makes so much more sense to someone who's informed about Flea's alignment and thinks it's a towny push to make, and also that scumread on Cakez feels really flawed. Otherwise, it's just tonal reasons.

Okay, love you, Andres, bye

[Andresvmb]

Ydrasse said it with not a lot of confidence at all, she just humoured it. This is another thing that just makes me go ???

Why did you ignore my correction that came soon thereafter?

Because I called you out on it lol

If you do something scummy and get called out on it, you can correct it, sure, but it doesn't make the first instance any less scummy or gone

So if I had doubled down on it, would that make me Town? Like I can misinterpret a post, or read something the wrong way. It makes me an imperfect player, but not necessarily Scum.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I guess it'd have to be Pooky obviously

I forgive you for leaving me off your team <3

[Andresvmb]

This isn’t toxic. Your points are just a collection of bad and you’re wrong. I am trying to better understand why. If you want to bail that’s up to you.

[Sha 77]

[Ydrasse]

there he goes...