Mafiascum.net

In post 15, Andante wrote:this rvs is wild!!! woooooo so exciting!! like, no one is really pushing 1 wagon, it's just "vote whoever" lol can rvs be over page 1 plz. I think Surye might be maf here, like, the 8th vote of the game, not on an existing wagon? ehhh

In post 16, Dwlee99 wrote:What is different between fireisredsir and surye in that regard?

In post 18, Andante wrote:mehhh fire’s is fine, called out something that also caught my eye. Surye’s though… suspicious tbh

when it takes 7 to lim 3 is nothing, putting people on e-2 or e-3 is where the pressure is, not really e-4

This page 1 exchange is kind of weird in that on reading Andante's 15 I would have assumed it was just standard RVS nonsense, but it seems like Dwlee took it seriously enough to question it and then Andante answered in a way that implies it actually was serious (at least a little bit)? Not sure what to make of that.

In post 27, HockeyFan wrote:Why do you want only pressure on 1 person to start the game? Doesnt make sense, a wagon shouldn't be formed on page 1 for the most part imo

Disagree but don't think the sentiment itself is scummy; I see it frequently enough from town. In general 27 looks a bit +town to me.

In post 36, fireisredsir wrote:i actually kinda agree with the hockey suspicion, i scoped out the starts of his games and the early buttering people up doesn't really feel like his town play, which is usually more fluffposting, banter, and discussing mechanics. i only see one scum game in his history but he acted closer to this. it's not an open so there's no mechanics to discuss here, but still, he feels like more of an outsider. and like he's forcing himself to make a meaningful post with commentary on the game even when not much has happened, so he can look more town and get people off his back. feels like he's doing it because he thinks he has to instead of because it's his honest thoughts.

VOTE: HockeyFan

Not crazy about this read, fluffposting is in general a way easier town meta for scum to emulate than actually contributing and I don't think a sample size of one scum game is a good basis for a meta read claiming the opposite.

In post 49, Andante wrote:Also I do feel a little bad for so much pressure on someone who is genuinely trying, so Hockey can be Hockey in peace for now

This makes no sense to me. If you think Hockey is scum then keep pushing him until he cracks, if you think he's town then don't say you "feel bad," say he's town. What even is this?

In post 52, 0verki11 wrote:

Kind of fluffy posting here; the only really alignment-relevant thing in the post is the "town vibes" on Andante.

In post 64, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 48, Andante wrote:

In post 47, 0verki11 wrote:ive been pretty busy today

Busy with maf plans so soon?

VOTE: 0verki11

this is dumb, back on hockey

vote:hockeyfan

In post 65, Nero Cain wrote:like 27 is legit scummy. I assume the reason that you feel sorry for him is b/c he's always wagoned but I don't think thats a good reason to stop wagoning him.

Agree with the sentiment even if I still don't get the Hockey wagon.

Stephen A. Smith coming in with an instant read list in 71 is a good look even if I don't know where it's coming from, early town pings.

In post 80, Stephen A Smith wrote:you said I replaced in and threw a random list at the thread on page three and this makes me scum

explain your train of thought

how do you get from random list to scumbag

Really like Stephen for town based on the attitude in this and followup posts. I'm not at all as convinced as he appears to be that Dwlee's responses make him definite scum but then I'm not sure if he really believes it either or is just taking that stance for the sake of the push.

In post 151, Dwlee99 wrote:Oh before I go
VOTE: Scorpius
I'm pretty sure he literally scum slipped by saying him and greeting should try to play into our fight

Read 142 and tell me what the hell that means other than my interpretation of it (but don't post it til Scorpius explains it himself)

If you actually want to vote scum go here, Stephen

Oh wait, Greeting is literally the name of a player in the game? I ignored that post because I thought he was just saying "Greetings"

In post 154, Dwlee99 wrote:Oh I understand what you meant
UNVOTE:
><

I don't. Can you explain? Because I actually took this scumslip theory seriously until I saw you retract it.

In post 155, HockeyFan wrote:Where does the Greeting sus come from? Idt they've done anything AI(they have like 4 posts)

This seems to be answering its own question (inactivity is a good enough reason to have someone as suspect #4)

In post 156, Dwlee99 wrote:

In post 155, HockeyFan wrote:maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this).

This depends on who Stephen's main is

...I guess, but this seems like trying to keep open the possibility Stephen is scum when it doesn't look likely that he is.

In post 167, Scorpious wrote:can we get a "lay off the weed one"?




PLEEEEASSEE??

Are you planning to play the game? Only real contentful post is 44 and that's just picking on something easy to pick on.

In post 168, Stephen A Smith wrote:

In post 155, HockeyFan wrote:Where does the Greeting sus come from? Idt they've done anything AI(they have like 4 posts)

I didn't like any of his three posts

In post 170, HockeyFan wrote:

In post 160, fireisredsir wrote:stephen looks a lot worse off that than dwlee does to me. pushing a pointless point and acting like you caught someone in something? hmm. i can see a certain type of scum player doing that, whether because he really thinks he has a point (he doesn't, dwlee is right here) or because he knows that dumb extended fights like that a lot of times will make others skim and assume both are town

I need you to expand on this. Why would Steven do this as scum? He spent 2 pages trying to get an answer for a mostly "mild" sus from Dwlee. If stephen is mafia, he can really just ignore dwlee's read(or play it off), what is the benefit of doing what stephen did as scum there?

This is pretty much what I was thinking which makes me continue to like HockeyFan here.

In post 193, fireisredsir wrote:

In post 170, HockeyFan wrote:I need you to expand on this. Why would Steven do this as scum? He spent 2 pages trying to get an answer for a mostly "mild" sus from Dwlee. If stephen is mafia, he can really just ignore dwlee's read(or play it off), what is the benefit of doing what stephen did as scum there?

there are people who just play aggressively. not everyone will just ignore attacks and play passive, some people as scum like to push back and out-pressure and just overwhelm whoever is arguing against them. i think it's actually MORE likely that he is scum because of it being a small mild point, because it means that he's forcing the argument where there totally doesn't have to be one. town probably wouldn't care because it's a minor point that should be obvious

the other benefit of that aggressive play is that you'll get people like this saying "why would mafia do that???" when it's actually super easy to do and more fun and works a lot of the time

Also like fireisredsir for town; I think it's easier for scum to just lean into the simple "Stephen is town because trying hard" read instead of trying to argue the other side.

In post 197, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 155, HockeyFan wrote:tbh this entire interaction doesnt seem AI at all

Am I really the only one that finds this bad?

Stephan had a list of scumreads for ??? reason. DW was pissed b/c he was on it and it was unexplained. It's content. Deciphering wich alignment the content comes from can be tricky but just throwing your hands up and saying that it was meaningless is dumb


and scummy

This I can sort of agree with, except that in the same post HockeyFan says: "maybe stephen town for continuing to persits 1 thing instead of just letting it go(cuz it doesn't benefit him as mafia to do this)." And follows up by arguing Stephen is town. The line itself is kind of bad out of context I agree.

In post 203, Scorpious wrote:

Too long to quote but this is a very uncharitable post. Criticizes wavemode for making one fluff post even though he immediately followed up with actual reads; criticizes those reads themselves because "'probably' and 'slightly' mean nothing"(???), conflates and , overall looks like nonsense to me. Wavemode's mostly dismissive response in 214 is exactly what it deserves.

In post 220, Scorpious wrote:And first real town lean for me goes to wavemode.

On the other hand, this reaction is in a way that I don't expect to see from scum. If Scorpious were scum trying to shitpush wavemode I'd expect them to interpret 214 as scummy instead of instantly changing direction and saying they're town after all.

In post 225, Greeting wrote:

There, happy?

Okay, now I understand 142

Greeting's 228 and 229 are decent, gamesolvey posts that make me lean town there. In particular:

In post 229, Greeting wrote:I suppose this could be a cause for concern though:

In post 41, HockeyFan wrote:I probs have Dwlee as town(for now) for 16,20 and 34

I've played with

Dwlee99

in some games and I've found their playstyle to be generally quite nullish, and this game is no exception. Maybe but for that bizarre squabble with

Stephen A Smith

, but I don't see their participation in it as town-indicative either.

What makes you think that's a townslot?

is a good thing to be questioning. (HockeyFan's answer in 232 seems pretty satisfactory to me given he's not claiming hard conclusive townread)

In post 233, Scorpious wrote:Re: "The exchange"

I've been in DWlee's shoes recently. Stephen would argue the color of the sky with them. Every time a legit answer is run in a circle it gives someone a chance to misrep the original answer. I don't like what he's doing. The entire character(Stephen) and more likely than not the game opening, and maybe even the entire game is already being played as some sort of gambit. its all pre meditated. Not saying thats AI at all because obviously there is no way to know what they will roll,but I feel this character would have been installed regardless of green or red.

Dwlee really never did explicitly answer this question though, just responded with incredulity that any explicit answer was expected. Even if they thought the question was being asked in bad faith it should still be possible to give some kind of answer beyond "do I really need to explain this?" That fact seems really obvious to me in the exchange and it seems like people are ignoring it when they accuse Stephen of arguing in circles. Belaboring a point maybe, but that's different.

In post 249, HockeyFan wrote:

In post 248, Scorpious wrote:

In post 245, HockeyFan wrote:what about wave's 214 did u find town? Im not really sure how this post changes your read on them

I felt the answers were genuinely written. There was no defiance in any of it. My main reason for that line of question was to get more of a tone.and writing style. Not necessarily concrete information.

I like to look at things a little differently when I play. Of course there are the mechanics and rules and whatnot but so many people neglect other things like tone.

I also watch the games for changes in a writer’s punctuation. It can be a great tell, especially if it varies.
I(we) all have a solid baseline on how wave writes when they feel relaxed and not under a lot of pressure.

I agree they were genuinely written but how does saying stuff like "You're right" or "It doesnt" lean more towards town then it does mafia? that's the part I dont get. It's intresting to me that you TR that post based off the tone, cuz it didnt really tell me much, can u expand on this

It's hard to explain tone, but I tend to agree with Scorpious here. I think wavemode's response suggests he is really not afraid of being scumread. Responding to a claim that his posts aren't solving the game or saying all that much by freely admitting "no, they aren't" and just blowing off the suggestion that there is anything scummy about that.

In post 251, fireisredsir wrote:i don't really scumread wave for the post, but i did think it was interesting that he said that he townread steve for offering zero explanation for his reads, feeling no need to justify himself, etc., when wave did that very same thing himself in the same post. it feels a little too clean and lines up too nicely, ya know? seemed like it could have been intentional, doing the same thing that he is then saying is a townie thing to do. i do think he could have done it as town, but i think it's not giving him enough credit to townread him for the post

I don't really buy this reasoning. Like, I understand what it's saying but it seems more like a thing one could imagine making sense for scum to do than a thing scum actually does.

Frozen Angel's read-in is mostly fine, a few comments:

In post 261, Frozen Angel wrote:Fast switch between these two posts. I always find fast switches scummy. Town mindset is way more progressive than branching. Branching is what scum mindsets prefer so they can add themself to the discussions and gain others' trust.

This is weird because I disagree on both counts: I don't think this is much of a switch, but also I don't think fast switches are at all scummy. The opposite, really: making a big deal about wanting to go one way only to suddenly go another way is more extra-credit work than I expect from scum. If anything I would think this pair of posts is suspicious for the opposite reason: because 33 seems almost like "advertising" a willingness to eventually move to HockeyFan and setting up for 37.

In post 264, Frozen Angel wrote:This part of this post is giving me all sorts of vibes. for one it seems you have knowledge that the people you are dealing with are genuinely sus at you. And for someone who was just defending their meta by bringing meta examples, this seems like a contradictory mindset.

Then it's a response to someone who just unvoted you for literally no reason. It gives me the vibe that you want to either make them feel good about doing that (which is contradictory to a usual town mindset who wants the game to be solved - as a town you should have questioned it because of that reason) but also gives the vibe that you were nervous about the votes on you when it's only page 3 and literally no one was voting with a solid reason. or it feels distancing, as you knew the intention of their vote on you, and you don't care about their fast switch.

This is actually a good point and the first argument against HockeyFan that I can really buy. In general Frozen Angel's reads make a lot of sense to me.

In post 265, Frozen Angel wrote:

In post 142, Scorpious wrote:Greeting,
We need a centered Stephen a VS DWLEE stat!!!

Also, Stephen is my new favorite player, I read every post in his voice.

getting extra town vibes here. again they saw what I clearly see too

...er, except this one. Did you quote the wrong post or something?

In post 267, HockeyFan wrote:

In post 265, Frozen Angel wrote:

In post 175, wavemode wrote:

In post 170, HockeyFan wrote:Why would Steven do this as scum?

"to seem townie" is the simple answer to any question of the form "why would he do that as scum?" ...

Hated the hockey's question. Liked the answer given. Such an absurd question to ask.

Doing whatever he did is not the way scum wants to "seem townie". Like imagine this, you, a player seemingly thrust yourself into the thread and cause chaos to give yourself more attention then originally. Why would you do that as scum?

Pretty much 100% sure HockeyFan and Stephen are not scum together based on this post.

In post 284, Andante wrote:wavemode feels off to me... like, I had vote overkill, then this.. like "here's some reads, I'll vote here, and say nothing" why? "ehhh just gut"
doesn't feel towny to me

This feels very surface-level to me, assuming that "off" is meant to imply "scummy."

In post 285, Andante wrote:Did you really just ask this? like, "Why would scum just tunnel a weak thing" the benefit is call spamming the thread to make it hard for town to keep up. yes maf also hate spammed threads, but like me looking at 300 posts knowing I'm behind... very overwhelming. this is maf points to Hockey

Same problem as above. I understand the answer itself to the question, I even understand being surprised he needs to ask, but why is it maf points to ask the question? There's something missing in the chain of reasoning here, like we're jumping straight from bad -> scummy.

In post 305, Scorpious wrote:

In post 299, Andante wrote:Fire is town. Quite certain there.

@297 no clue, but you with that post feels like you'r trying to send stephen on a tangent with something not related to the game, right as stephen was having good lines

Stephen A Smith is a very in your face sports debator. He is basically what is being represented so exquisitely in this game.

Lebron James is a very famous basketball player that he talks about allllllll the time.

He is also on a sports network that is becoming notorious for being one one side of the political spectrum,and for some reason Lebron James (the basketball player) feels the need to speak on many social issues.

Hence the joke..there ws no intent to spur on a tangent about nothing..

If you read me as scum, fine,but if its based on that,there is the reasoning.

Kind of hate that Scorpious is even taking this accusation seriously enough to defend himself from it. That feels unfair since Andante seems to be seriously pushing him on it but I still get a bad feeling from it.

In post 308, fireisredsir wrote:@frozen angel, hm i don't get that from scorpious' post. looks like he's saying "y'all are misbehaving" and "this gimmick account is fun". don't really see that as similar to your take, which has a real opinion. seems more like he is acknowledging it without actually saying anything about it. he does go back later and look at it more closely, but idk, just seemed like a weird post to get town vibes from due to agreement

this

In post 310, Frozen Angel wrote:I guess I like andates latest catch up posts. at first I felt she is just jumping on the TR made on stephen and scum read on hockey but it feels more natural now and I can follow the thoughts.

What do you like about them? They seem terrible to me, her reasoning on Scorpious and wavemode and HockeyFan are all tenuous at best for the reasons I already gave.

In post 331, Andante wrote:what is the problem? it's not even like I'm voting anyone right now, just giving thoughts

I hate hate hate hate this post, Andante officially my top scumread now. What an absurd thing to get defensive about. Scorpious asks her to explain a read progression and she responds as if he accused her of something.

In post 347, Scorpious wrote:One last thing about “the list”

I was told why I was scum read. Based on me trying to re direct posting. Fair.

Then I ask if they knew who SAS really was and they said no.

I feel I was very helpful in explaining how my scum read comment wasn’t that at all, and was STILL on the bottom of the list. Surely I’d move up a notch or two based on that.

Strongest and really only sr at the moment and I gotta clear this joke vote. So.


VOTE: Andante

I have to ask why this took you so long? If your old vote was a joke vote why wouldn't you vote Andante as soon as you found her >rand scum instead of waiting until highly confident?

In post 355, wavemode wrote:

In post 353, fireisredsir wrote:i cannot imagine why anyone would have an eyes without a face read in either direction unless they are process of elimination sorting, but we can ignore that for now

217 is slightly bad, to me. it feels like a "low hanging fruit" read, a read you write when you're trying to come up with a reason to townread someone. like "oh of course I would townread these guys because they participated in RVS ending". I meeeean, would you? really? people are rarely genuinely that naive. also, no mention of scorp, who quite literally did end RVS

that alone probably wouldn't amount to a scumlean if eyes had gone on to contribute more after that. but no, even with all the shit that was going on in the game at the time, all we got from eyes was that pointless comment. and yet his last visited time on the site is 8 hours later. never decided to come back and give more thoughts. hm

+1 Insightful

In post 360, wavemode wrote:

In post 352, fireisredsir wrote:

In post 349, wavemode wrote:nero cain, scorpious, eyes without a face are giving me scum vibes

explain the nero read? an answer of "ehh idk gut" will no longer be accepted

I don't fully follow 65. I get it, andante said 27 was scummy and some people agreed. you're just going to sheep that as your whole reason for voting hockey? there's a lot more in hockeyfan's ISO than 27 and 155

and I don't follow his 197 either. nero himself seems unsure of stephen's alignment, and unsure of the motive for his aggression, in his own 255. so why is hockeyfan being unsure of that such a problem. also, hockeyfan is nowhere near the only person who said they felt the argument was NAI. and also also, his basic argument that this behavior is scummy doesn't really make a ton of sense. overall this feels like a big reach to justify his wagon position

every time nero posts I feel like I keep asking myself whether he's really trying to solve this game, or just trying to appear like he is. and I keep arriving at the latter being more likely, when I compare this game to past games I've played with him

also, more generally: my knee-jerk reaction to your question is to counter-question, why does a scum read NEED to not be gut? Let's say my nero read had been pure gut. I think if I were actively trying to convince people to vote nero with me, the discussion of whether I have logical reasoning becomes more relevant. but if it's just a gut read and I'm not even voting him, I don't quite see what the problem with that is. I guess I'm just trying to understand where you're coming from with this post? I will probably have gut reads in the future, do you believe they should not be shared?

Same as above; wavemode very likely town.

In post 362, Scorpious wrote:I''ve moved Wave from town lean to null

?????