Mafiascum.net

This is a rewrite of the above post that I think is more coherent.

In post 568, TTTT wrote: so it's scummy because I'm trying to save Marci from getting elim'd?
but it's also scummy because I'm not voting another counter wagon?
pick one

In post 570, TTTT wrote:you guys do realize you are not getting anything else from Marci, right?
I'm more interested in some thoughts from Goldie

If I'm not mistaken your last post about Somnus was 380, which is not a town-read.
You were the first advocate for the dual wagon strategy and for putting pressure on players with votes. Granted, your proposal did not include Somnus.
marcistar was as good as hammered (so I also thought you trying to save her was extremely unlikely).
In light of the above, your focus on the replacement instead of the Somnus wagon was curious.
BigTerp read your unvote as a potential smart scum move. I read it more as a possible slip by a Somnus/TTTT team.
That said, I will not read more into this (prob.).

Why would you not read more into it though if you're town? These are good things to at least probe. Hell, even if you're mafia, you're at least more engaged in things now than you were early on. I have something else I want to say about this, but I think it's important to first get a response from TTTT before I comment further. I think gauging people's early Day 2 reactions, combined with the push on Marci, is going to give everyone a good place to start.

To Pimpest and whoever else, I offer you these questions:

1.) Who would have benefited the most from Marci being eliminated as quickly as possible?
2.) Who is the one person who never made a case against her, voted for her, or encouraged anyone else to replace an unvote on Marci with a vote?
3.) Who is the only other person who realistically could have been eliminated Day 1?
4.) Who are the players who didn't seem to care whether Marci or Somnus went through and didn't seem to make much of a case against either?

The answers to 1-3 may disappoint you.

In post 674, PlmPestPlaY wrote:All I want from this game is for either Somnus or GoldfishFromTheMoon to not be mafia. I want my expectations subverted damn it!

Then again, maybe the answers won't disappoint you.

In post 671, PlmPestPlaY wrote:

In post 160, Lukewarm wrote:Marci, are you town?

In post 161, marcistar wrote:no, r u?

I don't think I'm gonna be able to tell my grandkids about this game.

2nd time I legit lol'ed in this game. Props.

In post 654, TTTT wrote:do you guys wanna hear a Hitler joke?
fair warning it isn't very funny

Go for the hat-trick?

In post 677, Somnus wrote:To Pimpest and whoever else, I offer you these questions:

1.) Who would have benefited the most from Marci being eliminated as quickly as possible?
2.) Who is the one person who never made a case against her, voted for her, or encouraged anyone else to replace an unvote on Marci with a vote?
3.) Who is the only other person who realistically could have been eliminated Day 1?
4.) Who are the players who didn't seem to care whether Marci or Somnus went through and didn't seem to make much of a case against either?

The answers to 1-3 may disappoint you.

Is this an accusation against me?

It's not an accusation against any one person in particular. I need to hear from everyone.

In post 677, Somnus wrote:To Pimpest and whoever else, I offer you these questions:

1.) Who would have benefited the most from Marci being eliminated as quickly as possible?
2.) Who is the one person who never made a case against her, voted for her, or encouraged anyone else to replace an unvote on Marci with a vote?
3.) Who is the only other person who realistically could have been eliminated Day 1?
4.) Who are the players who didn't seem to care whether Marci or Somnus went through and didn't seem to make much of a case against either?

The answers to 1-3 may disappoint you.

What do you think the answer to 3 is Somnus? You seem to be implying there is only one person but there were a couple of players (you and myself included) who could have been eliminated day 1.

You had zero votes on you with less than 48 hours to go in Day 1. You weren't getting eliminated.

In post 683, Somnus wrote:You had zero votes on you with less than 48 hours to go in Day 1. You weren't getting eliminated.

Fair point.

In post 676, Somnus wrote:but I think it's important to first get a response from TTTT before I comment further.

I tried to slow down the end of the day because we had a replacement player
we were past the point of having two viable wagons
anybody who is making hay out of the two wagons thing wasn't reading the room
not a single player voiced opposition to the Marci elim

Somnus if I'm following you
you are saying PPP and furtive

I’m aware. I meant I’m holding off until you’ve had a chance to address Pimpest’s comment about a Somnus/TTTT scum team and why that is now very very unlikely.

In post 686, TTTT wrote:Somnus if I'm following you
you are saying PPP and furtive

I wasn’t kidding. I didn’t have anyone lined up that I was taking a veiled shot at/accusation. But we now have information and we need to piece together which vote/votes seemed the least likely to be motivated by good intentions.

not sure why it is very very unlikely from anybody else's POV
what are you getting at?
I do find it funny that PPP thinks he can get me elim'd today

In post 689, TTTT wrote:not sure why it is very very unlikely from anybody else's POV
what are you getting at?
I do find it funny that PPP thinks he can get me elim'd today

Because it would mean you delayed Day 1 as long as possible, risking a wagon continuing to grow on me, whether you joined in said-wagon or not. If you and I were partners, it's a bold move, Cotton.

I give Pimpest credit that he's at least willing to look elsewhere. I'm not sure I agree with him, but I think he deserves some credit for not locking in entirely.

I'm going to go through ISO's in the evening. The problem is going to be that virtually everyone wanted Marci dead.

In post 670, PlmPestPlaY wrote: I'm really early.

Lukewarm dying is predictable and kinda fitting.

I don't think scum comes out first thing day 2 and says something like this. Lukewarm was one of my biggest town reads day 1, at least I was reading that one right.

I plan to go back through Lukewarm's ISO and see what their thought process was.

In post 691, Somnus wrote:I'm going to go through ISO's in the evening. The problem is going to be that virtually everyone wanted Marci dead.

Agreed it's going to be tough trying to read much of anyone's intent with Marci. Other than TTTT, I don't remember anyone really against eliminating them. And TTTT's reasoning wasn't even really that they didn't want them eliminated rather they wanted to allow some time for Goldfish to share some thoughts after they replaced in.

I had Marci pegged as 100% scum. In their defense, they did repeatedly say that increased pressure on them only made their interest/participation in the game even less. I've just never played with someone seemingly so out of the game as they were and they not flip scum.

Going back through the last few pages it's striking to me that Furtive had announced intent to hammer Marci twice, and never made the move. Even after it was painfully obvious that Marci was going to be the play day 1, Furtive continued to hold out. For some reason, this just isn't sitting well with me.

In post 618, BigTerp wrote:

In post 616, TTTT wrote:

In post 613, BigTerp wrote:

In post 568, TTTT wrote:

In post 560, BigTerp wrote:Both these things could be perceived as scum trying to look as if they are scum reading their partner, putting votes and pressure on them but then getting nervous and moving off.

so it's scummy because I'm trying to save Marci from getting elim'd?
but it's also scummy because I'm not voting another counter wagon?
pick one

Yes. Like I said, both of these things could be perceived as scummy. But they aren't necessarily exclusive either.

they do seem to be contradictory
like if I'm marci's scum partner I utterly failed because I didn't push a counterwagon
if I'm the partner it would have been better to just straight bus her and let her self-hammer to avoid spew
not unvote to ensure we got some content from a replacement
my unvotes did not prevent her having to claim, as you can now see
my unvotes just delayed it

Fair enough. But the way you played it felt like a smart scum move (not pushing for someone else) and using the excuse of hearing from a replacement. I appreciate the response and in doing so makes me need to go back and look through that progression.

Marci flipping town has be really second guessing my read here.

Looking back through Luke's ISO, they have some pretty interesting reads. They are known town and I think we should at least evaluate their reads. They were rather back and forth with a few players and hadn't provided a thorough readlist for quite a while, but it seemed to end up something like this

Mr. Turtle - Town
TTTT - Town (with some good analysis that has me even more second guessing my read hear towards the end of day 1)
Goldfish - Town/null
Furtive - Town/null - A LOT of back and forth here. Had Furtive has a solid scum read for a long time then things changed towards the end of day 1 to a town read. Need to go back through this one and I'm starting to question my own reads here.
PPP - Scum/null
BigTerp - Scum/null - After Marci flipped town, I can now see some of my reads that brought Luke to this type of read.
Somnus - Scum - Pretty consistent read here throughout. I'd like to go back through and see what Luke was thinking here.

Obviously, the above isn't gold but Luke is known town and their reads should hold enough value that we go through and evaluate.

In post 692, BigTerp wrote:

In post 670, PlmPestPlaY wrote: I'm really early.

Lukewarm dying is predictable and kinda fitting.

I don't think scum comes out first thing day 2 and says something like this. Lukewarm was one of my biggest town reads day 1, at least I was reading that one right.

I disagree
it's not uncommon for scum to comment on the nightkill with something like "yeah we all saw that coming amirite guys?"

In post 690, Somnus wrote:

In post 689, TTTT wrote:not sure why it is very very unlikely from anybody else's POV
what are you getting at?
I do find it funny that PPP thinks he can get me elim'd today

Because it would mean you delayed Day 1 as long as possible, risking a wagon continuing to grow on me, whether you joined in said-wagon or not. If you and I were partners, it's a bold move, Cotton.

admittedly my scum game isn't super deep
but I'd like to think I'd play that the same way as scum
extending the day when the elim is inevitable (outside a PR claim) is EZ town points

we are in a pretty good spot here
losing two VTs with no PR claims outed is not that bad a place to be at the start of day2
let's take our time here
but also remember it's only 7 days, not ten