Mafiascum.net

In post 588, Corwinoid wrote: No. I knew the game was Normal, and what invalid roles there are.

Someone genuinely trying to solve would want to know what they're up against.

this can read null. it might be genuine town though-process coming from Corwin, and while I certainly wouldn't be thinking this way, it's not enough for a scum lean by itself. Corwin might merely be wondering why town! Vivax didn't do full private research regarding the setup(which, again, is not scummy on Vivax's part--- I myself stated my own ignorance on the matter.

This can be T/T.

In post 675, Eiralox wrote:

In post 588, Corwinoid wrote: No. I knew the game was Normal, and what invalid roles there are.

Someone genuinely trying to solve would want to know what they're up against.

this can read null. it might be genuine town though-process coming from Corwin, and while I certainly wouldn't be thinking this way, it's not enough for a scum lean by itself. Corwin might merely be wondering why town! Vivax didn't do full private research regarding the setup(which, again, is not scummy on Vivax's part--- I myself stated my own ignorance on the matter.

This can be T/T.

And if the town doesn't vote Corwin, who should we be voting in your opinion?

George still?

In post 674, Vivax wrote:

In post 672, Alexcellent wrote:Like there are so many easier targets to dump a vote on if Corwin is scum. Unless he's hoping people ignore it and eliminate someone else and he can coast by without being on a miselim? Idk

You could keep wifoming, or you could see that he's calling me mafia for the jester thingy and not getting the reasons straight at that.
He didn't simply dump a vote, and I don't see why you'd be more convinced he was mafia if he picked an easier target.

I'm not WIFOMing, I find it hard to see the scum there. The jester stuff strikes me as null.

In post 590, Corwinoid wrote:

In post 586, Crescent wrote:How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?

Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

The point is that Mafia wouldn't care which roles they're hunting because they're informed. Not knowing Jester isn't a prohibited role in Normal games from an experienced player comes off as very much not caring about needing to solve.

Ok Corwin's first line is logical here and wholly adresses Crescent's point.

The second sentence..... sure, Vivax said they've played since 2008. So check for experience. But Corwin, as this is Vivax's first game on this particular platform, don't you think a modicum of ignorance is warranted from their side?

In post 672, Alexcellent wrote:Like there are so many easier targets to dump a vote on if Corwin is scum. Unless he's hoping people ignore it and eliminate someone else and he can coast by without being on a miselim? Idk

quote="In post 671, Alexcellent"]

In post 595, Corwinoid wrote:VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

Alright I'm just not feeling this. It feels like a weird team to push as scum though?? At this instant (still catching up), Corwin feels like tunnel vision town.[/quote]
He directly countervoted the first two people who voted him, and refuses to participate in game sorting arguments. Very very much dislike the "easier targets" line as an excuse, given his votes were specifically on people for voting him, rather than feeling like genuine attempts to solve the game.

He had never mentioned Vivax's existence once. The scum read is made up on the spot, then retroactively justified by one of the weakest reasons/votes I've seen in recent memory.

I'd only buy a tunnel vision argument if Vivax didn't come as a direct response to a vote. If the Jester comment was really that bad, we'd have heard about it sooner. The timing reeks of Corwin pausing to look back and trying to figure out something, anything to use to claim Vivax was scum. It's inorganic. I don't see any natural town thought process in the entire progression from 480 to 613. Posts 594 and 595 are horrifyingly contradictory on their own.

And what's the only thing he does now? A one post now calling me scum for calling him scum. He had plenty of chances to react to my growing concerns he was scum last night. Apparently, the entire scumteam all decided to vote Corwin together for shits and giggles 'This is now the narrative he's pushing. What he's not doing is any legitimate scumhunting. He has yet to do this all game. He refuses to even answer basic questions like when asked to him in 510.

Also his response to Elsa suggests Elsa is town. Do not believe I brought this up last night.

In post 676, Vivax wrote:

In post 675, Eiralox wrote:

In post 588, Corwinoid wrote: No. I knew the game was Normal, and what invalid roles there are.

Someone genuinely trying to solve would want to know what they're up against.

this can read null. it might be genuine town though-process coming from Corwin, and while I certainly wouldn't be thinking this way, it's not enough for a scum lean by itself. Corwin might merely be wondering why town! Vivax didn't do full private research regarding the setup(which, again, is not scummy on Vivax's part--- I myself stated my own ignorance on the matter.

This can be T/T.

And if the town doesn't vote Corwin, who should we be voting in your opinion?

George still?

George is my number one pick, Elsa my number 2. I haven't fully gone through people's arguments RE: Corwin so George and Elsa are my scratches in the bark for now.

In post 678, Eiralox wrote:

In post 590, Corwinoid wrote:

In post 586, Crescent wrote:How would mafia know whether or not a Jester exists?

How would they even know a third party exists, barring simply having too few numbers for the game?
Like, my last scumgame we we 3/14. We knew for dead certain there was a third party because 4 in 14 is standard where I come from.

The point is that Mafia wouldn't care which roles they're hunting because they're informed. Not knowing Jester isn't a prohibited role in Normal games from an experienced player comes off as very much not caring about needing to solve.

Ok Corwin's first line is logical here and wholly adresses Crescent's point.

The second sentence..... sure, Vivax said they've played since 2008. So check for experience. But Corwin, as this is Vivax's first game on this particular platform, don't you think a modicum of ignorance is warranted from their side?

He acknowledges his reason may be faulty in 594, because Vivax may be less experienced than he thought, one post before he votes him anyway.

That vote is probably what I most can't let go.

George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

In post 681, Crescent wrote: He acknowledges his reason may be faulty in 594, because Vivax may be less experienced than he thought, one post before he votes him anyway.

That vote is probably what I most can't let go.

Ok I haven't done enough reading to give an informed reply here, but yes that does seem a strange progression and I'll be checking it out.

In post 679, Crescent wrote:
Also his response to Elsa suggests Elsa is town. Do not believe I brought this up last night.

Can you expand on this? Do you have a more detailed read on Elsa or is your read based wholly on Corwin/Elsa dynamic?

In post 682, Crescent wrote:George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

well gibus and goldfish and owen were also kinda mute these past days, as Geraintm did mention it's weekend so some folk do stuff. My shtick with George is way more the... non-contributive, under-the-radar thing along with behavior I've detailed in earlier posts.

Goldfish also under the radar atm, haven't given them much attention but from feels alone so far no alarm bells have rung.

Tbh, between Corwin and Uno, I'd probably vote Corwin due to the info his flip gives. But also I'm uncomfortable with the Uno wagon now. Elsa/Clidd makes me uncomfortable. Skimming their ISOs, neither have really directly interacted with each other. Elsa sheeped Clidd's Owen vote like a minute after. Clidd came in with this wishwashy non-committal agreement to Elsa's policy elimination stuff a few minutes after she posted it. Elsa listed Clidd as a town read, Clidd lists Elsa as a null. Idk, uncomfortable with the whole thing there.

P-Edit: actually yeah, tunnel vision is the wrong phrasing there

In post 611, Corwinoid wrote:

In post 604, Elsa Jay wrote:

In post 595, Corwinoid wrote:VOTE: Vivax

I hate being confident on D1, but I'm very feeling Vivax/UNOwen/?? as a team right now.

And you choose the one without a wagon and not targeting you all game? Why get off of Owen?

Because I don't understand what you and Eira were playing at earlier. I'll go for either one if you want to make a case for which one you think is better for me when I get back.

It is based on post #611 specifically. It reeks of scum knowing their vote is bad and latching onto town to potentially sheep. It's another display that he's not attempting to solve, and it is when I voted him.

I actually could see 613 being S/S In a "cut it out already idiot" sense, but the raw pandering to Elsa and completely undermining his own vote in #611 in the process just doesn't vibe that way. It's hard to imagine scum positing this response to another scum in this situation.

In post 684, Eiralox wrote:

In post 682, Crescent wrote:George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

well gibus and goldfish and owen were also kinda mute these past days, as Geraintm did mention it's weekend so some folk do stuff. My shtick with George is way more the... non-contributive, under-the-radar thing along with behavior I've detailed in earlier posts.

Goldfish also under the radar atm, haven't given them much attention but from feels alone so far no alarm bells have rung.

quote="In post 684, Eiralox"]

In post 682, Crescent wrote:George doing nothing for an entire new day does not give me any good feelings about George.

I've just yet to see anything remotely resembling a convincing argument about Corwin being a bad vote.

well gibus and goldfish and owen were also kinda mute these past days, as Geraintm did mention it's weekend so some folk do stuff. My shtick with George is way more the... non-contributive, under-the-radar thing along with behavior I've detailed in earlier posts.

Goldfish also under the radar atm, haven't given them much attention but from feels alone so far no alarm bells have rung.[/quote]
I mentioned this last night, but Goldfish has been so obvious in doing nothing that it gives me pause on whether or not scum would be so obvious in doing nothing.

I feel like scum in her position would've felt compelled to do *something* by now.

Will say doing nothing last night but hedging on the Corwin argument, then never coming up with a dedicated response to it like Alex did, does not feel great at all.

In post 417, clidd wrote:

In post 406, GeorgeBailey wrote:clidd sus for lack of benedict cumberbatch gifs

gotta pump those numbers up

I miss you, my friend.

We're kind of destined to play opposite alignments, but hopefully this time things will be different, right?

CLidd has interacted with Gibus and went after Geraintm heavily. This is their only interaction with George.

Their only interaction with Elsa was with the UNOwen votes. The fact that the votes were a minute apart might mean nothing to be honest, Elsa was posting at the time before the vote so it's not a factor I'm going to consider. The fact that boths votes are only a name, with cases fielded later... well that I find interesting, especially considering Clidd's earlier utter willingness to hang Geraintm.

In post 685, Alexcellent wrote:Tbh, between Corwin and Uno, I'd probably vote Corwin due to the info his flip gives. But also I'm uncomfortable with the Uno wagon now. Elsa/Clidd makes me uncomfortable. Skimming their ISOs, neither have really directly interacted with each other. Elsa sheeped Clidd's Owen vote like a minute after. Clidd came in with this wishwashy non-committal agreement to Elsa's policy elimination stuff a few minutes after she posted it. Elsa listed Clidd as a town read, Clidd lists Elsa as a null. Idk, uncomfortable with the whole thing there.

P-Edit: actually yeah, tunnel vision is the wrong phrasing there

Clidd and Elsa both voting Owen, then immediately trying to coax me onto it weirded me the hell out. I'm not sure I can quite put into words how awkward this all felt. It does further my belief that Elsa is probably as ADHD as I am, at least.

But this is another problem with Corwin: He was on Owen with these people. He never even acknowledges Owen now has a train in his entire "progression" to voting Vivax. He never acknowledges any of the reasons these people voted him, or my response to it. It's only when Elsa specifically points it out after he changes votes that he makes that pandering post to her.

He directly mentions Owen exactly twice: In 477 when he originally shades Vivax, and in 510 when he flat out refuses to answer Vivax's question. He has zero response, ever, to two people voting a guy he's already on.

We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

In post 690, Elsa Jay wrote:We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

The timing is very interesting, actually.

Corwin's return to attack Vivax over the Jester post is at #542. This is when he really committed to going after Vivax.

The votes on Owen come at #544 and #545. Vivax is not here at this time.

Corwin does not post again until after Vivax returns to respond to the Jester post, but makes no mention of Owen again until the very post he votes Vivax. If he were genuinely solving the game, how does he have no reaction to two Owen votes that drop right in his face as he's waiting for Vivax to respond?

In post 690, Elsa Jay wrote:We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

so why do you read George more green than Gibus? Again i feel you're avoiding this question.

I definitely do not read George more green than Gibus at this time, for the record.

In post 690, Elsa Jay wrote:We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

Do agree with this. Which is what I mean. Don't see why scum!Corwin votes town!Vivax there when scum can do literally anything else. Could have kept his vote on NM or on Unowen with no probs. Feels more likely town with bad argument than scum pushing something.

In post 693, Crescent wrote:I definitely do not read George more green than Gibus at this time, for the record.

yes i got that ; )

Elsa reading him more town than 'three below' (plus Gibus and NM, so 5 iirc) is hella sus.

Elsa putting Gera in scum pile George and saying "I'm going with the majority" while only three people were pushing on Gera is hellas sus.
And me stating this for the time without Elsa giving any input on either point is hella sus.

I mean. Have they both really done anything good? At least when I saw George interact with Alex earlier I got a good feeling. The most I remember from Gibus is a naked vote on me after copying my post, the VC, and now hopping onto Corwin.

It's not an important question to me since they're both low and can change spots. But sorry if me not responding makes it seem like I'm avoiding it cuz I don't wanna answer it.

In post 694, Alexcellent wrote:

In post 690, Elsa Jay wrote:We (me and Clidd) did interact earlier on the policy thing. And adding a vote to Owen seemed right since (again) we're in the final day so I was getting a wagon on my scumread.

I was NOT expecting whatever Corwin did. So uh. Guess I may vote there. Still don't know why they didn't just stay on Owen. Isn't it more of a scum benefit to just not do anything there instead of make a stupid argument? Or am I just giving scum Corwin to much credit?

Do agree with this. Which is what I mean. Don't see why scum!Corwin votes town!Vivax there when scum can do literally anything else. Could have kept his vote on NM or on Unowen with no probs. Feels more likely town with bad argument than scum pushing something.

Why does town have no reaction whatsoever to two people voting for the same person they're voting for?

Speaking of Gibus, I do find it interesting that Gibus' only chiming in on this was a vote ok Corwin with no words.

Would like to see something of his own argument instead of just plopping down vote #4 silently.

There are definitely more people who think George is scummy than people who think Gera is scummy, that much is true. Acting otherwise is just not being based in fact.