it made zero sense in hindsight because if TBG was scum then he would never ever try and deflect off himself by starting a wagon on his partner
In post 5975, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I'm here and available to wagon not me players if we want that
Try tex? VOTE: tex.
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:42 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 6586, Krazy wrote:GR's self-vote looks like scum that saw the best mislynch today claiming mason to me.
mmm hmm
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:43 am
by Golden Robster
actually the only possible way I could see it coming from mafia is that he was trying to wifom and distance himself from texcat whilst knowing that he was probably going to be lynched
JJD wagon has no legs (sad)
I don't like Mylo/Dunn wagons
Lalawagon is OK at face value, but Wave and JJD both being on it gives me the heeblies
Tex is mildly leanscum, mostly on the wagon because the other wagons are no bueno. feelsbad going to a wagon I'm not super jazzed about, but I did hit Wheme that way, so it could be worse
Sajjwagon is fine, but I think texcat wagon is better odds.
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:48 am
by Golden Robster
but even then like that's super slim
TBG has a much higher likelihood of being town just from that
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:49 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 6753, Krazy wrote:Guess it depends on whether you think texcat literally played on the assumption she never, ever gets flipped.
I don't think texcat would think that given the amount of people suspecting her
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:51 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 6629, Skygazer wrote:I really don't like JJD's progression on texcat either. He starts off with a very weakly reasoned townread plus a lot of defending here:
JJD wagon has no legs (sad)
I don't like Mylo/Dunn wagons
Lalawagon is OK at face value, but Wave and JJD both being on it gives me the heeblies
Tex is mildly leanscum, mostly on the wagon because the other wagons are no bueno. feelsbad going to a wagon I'm not super jazzed about, but I did hit Wheme that way, so it could be worse
Dunn what happened between this and now for you to go from a "little interested" to "I will absolutely not move my vote to anyone else unless someone gives me good reason." ???
To a sudden weakly reasoned scumread here:
Spoiler: scumreading texcat
In post 5307, JarJarDrinks wrote:That VCA on Osuka seriously point to krazy or tex being scum. At one point the wagon was:
In post 5215, Krazy wrote:@Mylon Hopkirk basically accused you of being too lazy to do meta reads at the end of last game day, lol. Are you scum because you keep saying you've meta'd people but actually you haven't?
The former is fair lol, but if I were actually scum then that would be one of the least scummiest things about me lol.
Too scummy to be scum? Is that your defense? And did you actually answer the question?
Like this sudden read shift isn't really backed up by anything strong and looks like classic distancing once the reads start to shift against texcat. Despite the scumread he never votes for texcat at EoD even to prevent a no-lynch, shading the wagon composition here:
In post 6253, Krazy wrote:NOT AN OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT
TehBrawlGuy(4) ~ Kublai Khan(23), Texcat(12), Myloninja13(18), Wavemode(54)
JarJarDrinks() ~
Scioness Sajj(4) ~ Golden Robster(62), JarJarDrinks(66), Hopkirk(28) Tchill13(130),
Texcat (L-1) ~ Krazy(64), Gamma Emerald, Vaxkiller(19) Scioness Sajj(29), TehBrawlGuy(67), Creature(63), Skygazer(10), Ankamius(85),
I cannot join that wagon.
Like I'm not convinced at all by JJD's townread on tex, by his scumread on tex, by his read shift, or by his reluctance to vote a scumread to avoid a no lynch simply due to wagon composition.
I never really scumread texcat in those 3 posts:
-I mentioned that wagon composition pointed to lynching between tex and crazy. I should have followed up on this but I got tunnel'y. nobody's perfect.
- the 2nd post was me AGREEING w/ texcat about MYLOs post being scummy.
- 3rd post was for funnayz
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:57 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 6669, Golden Robster wrote:JJD was in a power position before texcat lynch since the majority of players townread him
Does this look super contrived to anyone else? Like who just has a perfect reads flip? How does one flip just completely manage to perfectly flip your reads and cause you to throw all your townreads and scumreads out the window (even the strong ones!)
In post 6673, Skygazer wrote:Does this look super contrived to anyone else? Like who just has a perfect reads flip? How does one flip just completely manage to perfectly flip your reads and cause you to throw all your townreads and scumreads out the window (even the strong ones!)
In post 6675, Skygazer wrote:I don't think anyone has a natural progression like that I think it's super contrived and was done to exaggerate why we should look past your original reads
not having natural progression =/= being mafia as long as you state clear REASONS
anka said earlier that the majority of town probably have wrong reads which is why I'm taking a step back and re-evaluating them aka flipping them
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:03 am
by Golden Robster
and if I've been wrong most of the game then I'm fine with flipping my reads
In post 6699, Hopkirk wrote:I didn't know universal backup can only inherit their own alignment.
Doesn't that mean the neighbourhood had to be all town? Otherwise we could lynch a scum neighbour then Wheme would inherit the hood and be confirmed scum right?
Honestly I don't think that would even make it past the NRG, they'd probably hardcore veto that
yeah, although if we believe the claims, this setup can have 5 conftown players in it, so I don't know how this got through either
Mafia Universal Backup does mean that they very likely have at least one other power role.
It's not a power level thing. I'm actually fine w/ a ton of PRs evenly on both sides.
It's the fact that the PRs are almost all mod-confirmeds. That shit is lame IMO.
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:09 am
by Ankamius
It's 5 conftown at a time with one other slot filling in
to be honest I do feel like a liability to town right now and I'm not playing against wincon but still think this is the best option right now; town should consolidate under anka since I hard TR her
if tchill is conf town and same with wavemode you need to look into KK and JJD tomorrow; basically any player that defended texcat
I kinda feel like this is never a scum post unless we're making a huge mistake today by falsely clearing town or something
but
if JJD flips scum, I'd call GR close to locktown for this general attitude
How does my flip affect how you read his general attitude?
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:15 am
by TehBrawlGuy
In post 6815, Ankamius wrote:It's 5 conftown at a time with one other slot filling in
With mafia given a tool to narrow those down
In a setup where there's no other PRs
In a 25p game
it's not about balance, it's about player agency/fun
lots of modconfirmed townies isn't fun and it destroys agency
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:18 am
by Gamma Emerald
idk about that
look at games like friends and enemies
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:20 am
by Ankamius
how, TBG
the confirmed roles are static, none of the flipped or claimed PRs can confirm anybody else as town
even if those roles do a good job at staying hidden, mafia have the tools to be able to narrow down who they are over time in a way that would cause scum to deserve just losing from a sudden huge townblock if they fuck it up on
plus there's no way to keep them all alive, so once they're out in the open, there's no way to prevent mafia just killing them every night if they want to
all this really does is give a list of players that just aren't going to be lynched. mafia need to mislynch roughly half of the town to win, which is pretty normal in a game with two deaths a cycle.
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:21 am
by Ankamius
I derped
mafia need to mislynch roughly half the town to win,
after taking out the six slots that won't be lynched when pushed due to mechanics
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:30 am
by JarJarDrinks
In post 1848, texcat wrote:A50, yeah, I got that you think it's the scum team. I was wondering if you had any names in mind, but it can wait.
It looks like we may no lynch anyway. I guess it's up to Wheme and Robster. You think lynching a VT is better than no lynch? On the off chance he's scum? I actually think there's a good chance Android is scum, given what we have to go on from him.
I think this makes Robster look really good. I feel like scum tex wouldn't want to bring attention to the fact that his scumbuddies were the only people in the game not on the wagons.
Posted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:36 am
by JarJarDrinks
TBG and Mylo also look pretty good based off tex's ISO
the confirmed roles are static, none of the flipped or claimed PRs can confirm anybody else as town
even if those roles do a good job at staying hidden, mafia have the tools to be able to narrow down who they are over time in a way that would cause scum to deserve just losing from a sudden huge townblock if they fuck it up on
plus there's no way to keep them all alive, so once they're out in the open, there's no way to prevent mafia just killing them every night if they want to
all this really does is give a list of players that just aren't going to be lynched. mafia need to mislynch roughly half of the town to win, which is pretty normal in a game with two deaths a cycle.
these are good points why the setup is balanced, but I'm not arguing that it isn't balanced. i'm arguing that a setup with lots of modconfirmed town isn't fun.
like this setup is basically mountainous + a little bit of communication, except that Scum are pigeonholed into nightkilling 5 players before endgame regardless of how they play, and Town will sometimes get really lucky and get out of a mislynch b/c they were on someone who's confirmable.
anyway this is an aside to actually winning the game so we should probably drop it
