Tales of You (Endgame)

[magenta_thegreat]

I've completely given up on reading this game, and I still don't have a grasp as to what had happened during D1

[Titan]

I don't get what the issue with DV's post is. How is agreeing with someone about a concern opportunistic? I feel like a broken record but I feel like people *should* be reanalyzing/losing their shit, that is what you're supposed to do when you mislynch three times in a row is it not?

Because what he is agreeing with didn't make any sense.

That's right! Tammy's a loon! Don't listen to her, bad bad.

[CarbonFiber]

I don't get what the issue with DV's post is. How is agreeing with someone about a concern opportunistic? I feel like a broken record but I feel like people *should* be reanalyzing/losing their shit, that is what you're supposed to do when you mislynch three times in a row is it not?

Because what he is agreeing with didn't make any sense.

That's right! Tammy's a loon! Don't listen to her, bad bad.

I just finished writing all my finals and am super excited to have some free time and I'll pour time into playing mafia.

I am in an awesome mood right now!

You are awesome! Your posts make me smile! Don't break my heart!

[Titan]

There's no breaking hearts here! (I never break anyone's heart anyway!) Don't be manipulating me.

Also, I've decided I'm going to try not taking mafia as seriously as I do. Okay it might just last until Saturday. We'll see.

I have no free time though. Someone has to grade all those finals and final projects.

[CarbonFiber]

YAY! I want to do the same thing!

[CarbonFiber]

I don't want to care about winning so much as having a good time.

AP is a fantastic scum player. I don't even care about beating him right now. I just plan to congratulate him at endgame for playing so well. Congrats AP!

[CarbonFiber]

Also, I didn't mean that you didn't make sense - you not making sense has to mean that your cat succeeded in killing you and is typing from your keyboard! I meant that DV agreeing with that post felt off because it doesn't make sense from DV's point of view to agree with that.

[CarbonFiber]

Nacho is another player I don't mind losing to by the way. He is awesome^100.

I'll happily lose this game to Nacho and congratulate him in the end! Nacho, the master manipulator who is so fun to play with, who taught me so much about mafia!

I am not even going to be butthurt about losing to Nacho.

[The Fox and the Hound]

I'll explain properly later as I'm busy now, but CF you're being really silly.

[Titan]

Falcon though as I'm taking a tiny break. What is up with your jumping all over the place with regards to me? In the beginning you *hoped* I was town, then you said after reading my ISO I was definitely town, then day three I was part of scum team that was going to mislynch you and in the midst of that you paralleled my scum game to nacho's (LOL?) was that really what you meant because FMPOV I have one of the worst scum games onsite, to you saying you'd be able to catch me as scum if you were town within 25 posts, to getting paranoid of me trolling at the lynch yesterday, to then saying that my paranoia today is town.

I mean, I get waffling, cuz I mean hello Princess Waffles here, but there's a level of mental whiplash there that is part not quite making sense/I can't figure out.

(I just want mafia to be more fun, I think people have been making it too serious/toxic/hostile environment lately across the board. I play my part, and I just want to have fun and not have it affect *me* as much as it does.)

[CarbonFiber]

I don't want to make it toxic. I know I have and if I continue along the same vein, I'll make this game incredibly unfun for everyone here including you and I don't want that. I love playing with you and with everyone else in the game and that's why I want to not care so much about it. I'd rather lose and maintain great relations with everyone than win and alienate a whole bunch of people.

[AngryPidgeon]

magenta is softing a mass RB role.

that isn't really what I'm softing, but ok?

VOTE: magenta
\o/

I'll get to posting content here later when I dont have people coming over.

[CarbonFiber]

Falcon though as I'm taking a tiny break. What is up with your jumping all over the place with regards to me? In the beginning you *hoped* I was town, then you said after reading my ISO I was definitely town, then day three I was part of scum team that was going to mislynch you and in the midst of that you paralleled my scum game to nacho's (LOL?) was that really what you meant because FMPOV I have one of the worst scum games onsite, to you saying you'd be able to catch me as scum if you were town within 25 posts, to getting paranoid of me trolling at the lynch yesterday, to then saying that my paranoia today is town.

I mean, I get waffling, cuz I mean hello Princess Waffles here, but there's a level of mental whiplash there that is part not quite making sense/I can't figure out.

(I just want mafia to be more fun, I think people have been making it too serious/toxic/hostile environment lately across the board. I play my part, and I just want to have fun and not have it affect *me* as much as it does.)

Here's my thought process tracked down with reasons attached.

1) Beginning

: I skimmed the game somewhat - my fault. It was obvious from reading your posts up until the time I entered that you were town. For whatever reason in the midst of my skimming, I missed some of the reasons why you were obviously town. There was also one specific thing I was looking for: I thought you'd claim that you could read me when FT's post was being discussed. Sort of like how ffery said she was going to wait for me to post. You later clarified that you were waiting for me to initiate interaction with you so it is a moot point. But I was actually hoping at that point that

you

would invite me to the ball.

2) First read-through of ISO

: And then you do something you never did before. You threw an IGMEOU emoticon my way! If I were scum, I'd be quaking in my boots, no better way to make me sweat. Even as town, the effect was fascinating. And so I ask you why. Why, oh why did you look at me that way? And then you say I ought to read you easily, why hadn't I taken you up in my arms and swept you away? And then I look into your ISO and see what I wanted to talk to you about - I pick up those little things that you are so unlikely to do as scum. I see your tone, I see the way you talk, the way you walk, the way you move. Not a chance you are scum, what the hell was I thinking? And so I backtrack. But the great knight Sir Arthur charges after me! Look at that backtrack, it is scum, scum, scummy! And then I realize the way you pushed on me would be incredibly unlikely from a scum-Tammy and I back the heck off and see you for the obvtown that you are. And this townread continued for upto night 2.

3) Deep in the forest, Desperado and I sit together

(Heavily paraphrased conversation):
Desperado: Did you see that Mastin post to Ffery? He's town! New theory: Mastin is town, Titan/Stalin are scum. They are setting us up for a Mastin townflip.
F-16: Come off it. No way Tammy is scum. Sure, Stalin maybe but not Tammy.
Desperado: Tammy's whole thing about a cabal forming to lynch Ffery is ridiculous.
F-16 (after some conversation): Hmm, well she

is

good as scum, I wouldn't discount her fooling me I guess. Will go ask her because we are best mates in this game and it'll go awesome and she'll reassure me that nothing is off and I'll come back and tell you what a wacko you are!

4) In the game thread D2

:
F-16: Tammy, explain this, why would your read on me be affected by Mastin's flip? Desp brought up a few points in the neigborhood.
Tammy!: Where's that coward Desp! Bring him out here and I'll duel him to the death! Your neighborhood blows! I'm coming around with cannonballs and an army of a thousand to lay your itty-bitty neighborhood to seige!

---
Neighborhood: We're under attack! Run! Women and children inside. Men, get your armor ready. Ready the battlements. Prepare for battle! IT'S TAMMYYYY!
F-16: That went well...

<a period of calm, peace amongst the bitter battle while

Mastin gets lynched and flips town

>

5) Back to the Forest

: F-16 lies alone in a crazy mood. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Nacho and Tammy are scum together and are pulling this stuff on me. Well, not Tammy but Nacho is definitely a possibility.

F-16: Hey Nacho, why didn't you answer my questions I asked you about your read on Orc and why you pushed him D1 only to never push again?
F-16: Nacho, Nacho, Nacho, why are you avoiding me?
F-16: You've gotta be scum, that's why? Who's scum with you Nacho? Is it AP? Is it Penguin? Heck is it Tammy? That can't be true.
F-16: Are you planning to blow your cover on me tomorrow to get me mislynched? Try it I dare you!
F-16: Come on, Nacho, try it, try it, try it. You know there is not fucking chance I am scum here. Scumclaim to me by pushing me at daystart! Even tell Tammy to attack me if she's scum with you! Is this the day you are both going to blow your cover and mislynch me? I know you'll probably kill Yggdra to take away one of my best allies.

6) Daystart

: PieInFreezer is dead!

F-16: (A little panicky that my worst fears came true but not genuinely believing it beyond some crazy, irrational part of my head, all this while morally sunk with Mastin's and Rancid's blood on his hands): Tammy, explain your hammer.

Tammy: Vote CF

(and you know the rest)

After that, I head off to class, bike back home, breathe some air and realize that I was being silly sitting in a dark lab in real life, sitting in a metaphorical room with paranoid Desp in the game, and venting about things that had nothing with you and little to do with the game.

As for your scum game, I think you are competent as scum, it is just that when you are town, your alignment is exceedingly obvious that someone who has played enough games with you would probably notice the lack of blatant towniness. I've played with you enough to know what your towngame looks like although whether or not I'll be able to catch you as scum is a mystery that remains to be seen.

7) End of D3: Cupcakes have been eaten

:
I wasn't seriously considering you being scum when you made that post about me being scum hammering and I didn't think you were either (unless you really were in which case you know where to turn in your can-read-F-16 card. From the point, I read your responses to me early D3, I had you as strong enough town that no one was going to convince me otherwise.

8) Today

, JSU came out attacking you and I told them to drop it since it was so obviously a distraction.

---

As far as my play, I was wrong about Mastin and Rancid and completely off-base but I felt like I've been really obviously town as well. I just disagree with a lot of your characterizations of my play. You say that I'm part of the undercurrents to lynch Ffery and have been asking "gotcha" questions to her. I don't see how and I was genuinely trying to understand her thought process all through the game. You said that I wasn't trying to figure out what happened with the game when Cupcake claimed that role. I was. Probably more than anyone else. I wondered about the number of investigative roles in the game. I considered why in the world scum-Kats would want to claim a guilty while Nacho quickly shut down that discussion. I was considering everything and mulling things over and you saying that you were the only one who did this and not me just isn't true. If you truly read my posts D3, you'd realize I brought this up plenty of times. I asked why would Cupcake-scum have any reason to fake-claim but was shut down by AP and Nacho. Then you came into D4 implying that I never did anything about it and that's just not true. At some point though, I'd had enough of the noise and thought that Cupcake's flip would help us all reset. I offered to hammer but waffled hard on it and DV did it instead. I still stand by the fact that the day ending when it did was good considering a Cupcake lynch was pretty much set in stone and we weren't going to change that.

Next day begins and you discounted how much I worried about Cupcake or how I was considering the possibility of too many investigative roles. I was more worried than you were! And why would I as scum do such a ridiculous thing as asking someone else to hammer while I stay off for moral reasons? It would be a lot less convoluted if I had just hammered. It was me as town not wanting to contribute to a crap lynch and my desire to have the day end quickly if the lynch was a foregone conclusion. I didn't want to hammer someone I thought was town. I was frustrated at the way the day was going. I was frustrated that no one was considering alternative possibilities (except you), and I was frustrated that Nacho was acting like everything was obvious that Cupcake was so obviously scum that he didn't need to list any of his other suspects as well.

To say that I wasn't considering everything and am confbiasing is a bit unfair. I very obviously was. I am not even sure if you are reading any of my latest posts. I'm genuinely concerned about DV's posts. They feel scummy. I didn't play this game optimally but I put in more time and effort into it than any other recent game and I can't even convince you that I am obviously town let alone random players that don't know me and it is probably my fault and the frustration was building up for a while. I just don't

care

this much as scum. Wicked was probably one of my better scumgames and how many times did you prod us? And that was a hydra with Nacho in it. I wondered if we were going to get replaced after three prods. I see you as being obviously town here but so am I and I think my contribution to the game and genuineness in my posting is just as obvious. I spent so much time and effort trying to sort Nacho and digging at every possible thing to see if I could get a definitive read. I spent a considerable amount of time pushing AP. During this time, you were trying to see if I fit in on a scumteam with Nacho and AP which just didn't make any sense because I am not scum in the first place.

[The Fox and the Hound]

Ok here we go. This is gonna be good. (or completely horrible depending on how you look at it)

Woah... Tammy, this is EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY something I've been thinking and worried about. I haven't even mentioned it to Ceph yet because I thought it was too out there, but I feel so irrationally happy right now.

Are you fucking kidding me? I responded to that post ages ago.

So more on how your response is not actually a refutation at all later, but first, how does responding to/refuting an accusation mean that agreeing with that accusation is a detestable sin?

'I agree with this!
'No you can't agree with that because I RESPONDED to it before you made that post!!! So nu-uh!!! Oh you're also scum for that. Have a good day!'
'Uhhh?'

Yeah, I don't think that's how it works.

Second, I think it's pretty clear that I'm commenting on posts as I read them, so I think you'd know that I wouldn't know about your response as I made that post, and even if I had completely changed my mind about you it wouldn't change the fact that I had that thought as well, so another reason why I think you're going on about nothing!

Third, I don't even say that I think you're scum with AP. I just say that was something I was thinking and worried about (and the thing I say about Ceph should make it obvious that it was what I considered a slightly outlandish theory). The same post obviously indicates that my read on you has weakened, but I don't really explain it and actually make a note of saying that it's not exactly what I'd mentioned previously.

So, uh, whatt?

I am apparently finding new ways that AP is scum but not actually pushing him.

Um, you actually have been making a big show of how you suspect AP without ever trying to get him lynched, so I'm not really understanding the sarcasm here!

Like, are you actually kidding me with the "Woah... Tammy, this is EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY something I've been thinking and worried about. I haven't even mentioned it to Ceph yet because I thought it was too out there, but I feel so irrationally happy right now." This is just... bad.

Yes I'm not allowed to even consider that you might be scum. Got it!

Foxhound and Magenta seem to both be ??? for us (although I have Fox more as null and Magenta more as scum).

Ok I'm sick of this. You've happened to get me at a time when I don't care about the role stuff making you probably town and I'm not trying to pretend to understand why people wouldn't be townreading me (lucky you), so... WHY ARE WE NULL? (I've convinced myself the caps is actually because I don't want you to miss the question and not for any other reason). Both you and CF were previously townreading me/us for reasons I thought were pretty good! Now, even though I'm pretty sure I've been more transparent and more town than I've even been in my last ~10 town games (I mean, getting people to insult me as scum, seriously?), we get a nice, boring, inoffensive null. Problem for you two though is that I don't find it very inoffensive! If it was that we were pretty town but other people were just more town, then I'd think that was a bit odd, but I'd probably accept it (I actually feel the same way about a lot of people this game!), but I'm pretty sure scum view us as a scrumptious and juicy mislynch, and these nulls are exactly what I'd expect to happen (and CF grasping for reasons to scumread me too, how cute!)

And then DV posts saying that somehow it all makes sense and agrees with it opportunistically.

Ok so to make it clear the big thing for me was the part about you having this really weird unfailingly strong read on AP but never actually trying to get him lynched (and I think the part I quoted was pretty mainly about that?). But no apparently I think you're not scumhunting and not looking at things from a town PoV. Ok then!

I found DV's hop to be opportunistic and just overall scummy and that's why I refuted all the points to show why I disagreed with him.

Ok, so let's take a look at your grand 'you're not allowed to scumread me ever after this' refute.

You are talking about me confbiasing AP when AP has been confbiasing me since he entered the game. It is pretty obvious I am town here if you rethink everything I've done in this game. Day 1, I cc'd RBD when he fake-claimed miller. You know that my scumgame isn't at a level where I would do such a gambit. I don't care if people who don't know my playstyle think that I gambited but you know it is impossible coming from me. There's also not a chance I'd leave you alive over Pie who was townreading the absolute crap out of me because you are a massive threat to me as scum. I've played with you enough and read enough of your games that I know that if you truly want someone dead, it is highly unlikely that you'd be unable to drive the lynch through. There's no way, I'd let someone like that live on, least of all when they are very closely familiar with my game. Third, look at my activity level. I really shouldn't be posting in this game when I've been so busy - and yet I am. I've been trying really hard to figure this game out even amongst the chaos and the noise. Even, look at the tone of my posts for over 500 posts - walls and all. Look at my interactions with other players, with you etc. It is also really obvious that I genuinely believed in my suspicions of Mastin and Rancid wrong though they may be.

1. 'My scumread is confbiasing so you can't call that a scumtell!' Oh wait...
2. 'I'll just ignore your other posts and talk about how town I am' Ok, I don't think that's scummy, but it's not really refuting anything, is it? (I'll probably say my thoughts on this when I actually decide what I think. Believe it or not I still don't know if you're a scumread yet!)

I'm going to head out. I want to hear comments about DV's recent post.

It was amazing! He posted exactly what I was thinking!

I'm genuinely concerned about DV's posts. They feel scummy.

Ok, I need to go for a while now. Sorry if I've been significantly less nice than I should be anywhere. I have no idea what I think of CF at the moment, so don't ask me.

[The Fox and the Hound]

posts

points, not posts

[CarbonFiber]

Um, you actually have been making a big show of how you suspect AP without ever trying to get him lynched, so I'm not really understanding the sarcasm here!

How am I not trying to get AP lynched exactly? Would you rather I ignore everything and everyone else in the game and scream from the rooftops that AP is scum? I can't force people to vote him if they don't want to.

Like, are you actually kidding me with the "Woah... Tammy, this is EXACTLY EXACTLY EXACTLY something I've been thinking and worried about. I haven't even mentioned it to Ceph yet because I thought it was too out there, but I feel so irrationally happy right now." This is just... bad.

Yes I'm not allowed to even consider that you might be scum. Got it!

That's not what I was saying though. The way you agreed with it smacks of scum townreading a townie. Most of your posts towards Tammy were of the "woah, I love this post" type variety, even for the more null posts and I don't find your responses genuine. The post you quoted especially doesn't resonate. You never re-evaluate your read there especially for someone preaching a lot of re-evaluating reads.

Foxhound and Magenta seem to both be ??? for us (although I have Fox more as null and Magenta more as scum).

Ok I'm sick of this. You've happened to get me at a time when I don't care about the role stuff making you probably town and I'm not trying to pretend to understand why people wouldn't be townreading me (lucky you), so... WHY ARE WE NULL? (I've convinced myself the caps is actually because I don't want you to miss the question and not for any other reason). Both you and CF were previously townreading me/us for reasons I thought were pretty good! Now, even though I'm pretty sure I've been more transparent and more town than I've even been in my last ~10 town games (I mean, getting people to insult me as scum, seriously?), we get a nice, boring, inoffensive null. Problem for you two though is that I don't find it very inoffensive! If it was that we were pretty town but other people were just more town, then I'd think that was a bit odd, but I'd probably accept it (I actually feel the same way about a lot of people this game!), but I'm pretty sure scum view us as a scrumptious and juicy mislynch, and these nulls are exactly what I'd expect to happen (and CF grasping for reasons to scumread me too, how cute!)

You are null because neither your nor Cephrir's catch up posts were awesome. I disliked them quite a bit. They picked up on ridiculously irrelevant stuff. Nothing I saw in there felt like an attempt at scumhunting. They are massively positional. The points you picked up on seemed like they serve an agenda of laying down a trajectory of reads development so that you eventually wind up scumreading players that you want to scumread and townreading players that you want to townread. For example, 6570 is massively opportunistic. Defense of Tammy, questioning of RG and JSU, some pointless line about me that I don't even understand the purpose of. You've decided who you need to agree with and who you need to disagree with and it feels like you are tailoring your posts to that end. More positional junk in 6402. 6058 was just bad. 5606 is geared towards directing the lynch and a setup for your eventual vote. You disagree with Cupcake and agree with AP, never mind the strength of their respective points. 5360 was incredibly underwhelming and the mechanical questioning was awfully fluffly.

And then DV posts saying that somehow it all makes sense and agrees with it opportunistically.

Ok so to make it clear the big thing for me was the part about you having this really weird unfailingly strong read on AP but never actually trying to get him lynched (and I think the part I quoted was pretty mainly about that?). But no apparently I think you're not scumhunting and not looking at things from a town PoV. Ok then!

Which doesn't make sense because I've been trying to do it as much as possible while not losing sight of the game as a whole.

I found DV's hop to be opportunistic and just overall scummy and that's why I refuted all the points to show why I disagreed with him.

Ok, so let's take a look at your grand 'you're not allowed to scumread me ever after this' refute.

You are talking about me confbiasing AP when AP has been confbiasing me since he entered the game. It is pretty obvious I am town here if you rethink everything I've done in this game. Day 1, I cc'd RBD when he fake-claimed miller. You know that my scumgame isn't at a level where I would do such a gambit. I don't care if people who don't know my playstyle think that I gambited but you know it is impossible coming from me. There's also not a chance I'd leave you alive over Pie who was townreading the absolute crap out of me because you are a massive threat to me as scum. I've played with you enough and read enough of your games that I know that if you truly want someone dead, it is highly unlikely that you'd be unable to drive the lynch through. There's no way, I'd let someone like that live on, least of all when they are very closely familiar with my game. Third, look at my activity level. I really shouldn't be posting in this game when I've been so busy - and yet I am. I've been trying really hard to figure this game out even amongst the chaos and the noise. Even, look at the tone of my posts for over 500 posts - walls and all. Look at my interactions with other players, with you etc. It is also really obvious that I genuinely believed in my suspicions of Mastin and Rancid wrong though they may be.

1. 'My scumread is confbiasing so you can't call that a scumtell!' Oh wait...
2. 'I'll just ignore your other posts and talk about how town I am' Ok, I don't think that's scummy, but it's not really refuting anything, is it? (I'll probably say my thoughts on this when I actually decide what I think. Believe it or not I still don't know if you're a scumread yet!)

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about mindset. I pointed out several times that AP kept continuing to bring up new reasons to suspect me since the time he entered the game and I found it scummy and even pointed it out to Tammy several times and no reaction. And out of the blue she accuses me of conf-biasing a read on AP, and it is just wtf. Your "oh, just what I was thinking" in response to that felt really ridiculous. If you had posted something like "to be fair, AP was doing it too," it would have been easy to see you thinking critically about it. But I don't see any critical thinking at all especially when it came to Tammy's posts. Was there one you disagreed with?

[The Fox and the Hound]

CF, Day 2 you expressed that you'd rather lynch AP than Mastin, but apart from saying that iirc you didn't make any more effort to direct the lynch that way. This wasn't a big deal imo because you seemed pretty invested in the Mastin lynch too, but it fits in with the more concerning later stuff.
So Day 3 Cupcake lynch day. You're pretty obviously not that into lynching Cupcake and think AP is scum, but you become resigned to a cupcake lynch so early in the day, saying that that was going to be the lynch anyway. Now for someone not so invested in the game I would understand this (I'm sure I've done the same thing as town), but if you were as invested as you appeared, I think it makes much more sense that you'd at least protest against Cupcake's lynch. I don't think you even voted for AP?
And today, again, you're saying AP is scum, but I don't actually see you pushing him to be lynched and you're instead attempting to get everyone to discuss us, and it looks like you're setting us up for a lynch, especially when the reasoning your using either doesn't make any sense (from today) or is based on old posts despite the fact that your ISO contains this gem:

However, I also like DV's latest catchup walls and it feels like he is genuinely trying to figure out the game.

Apart from the last thing I'm not sure on what happened as I haven't gone through your ISO properly, but that's along the lines of what I've been thinking.

As for Tammy, I don't remember what I have agreed with and what I haven't. I'm sure there have been some of her posts I've disagreed with, but I'm not going to comment on everything I agree with and disagree with. The reason why I reacted the way I did this particular time was because for a long time I thought that you/AP was an unlikely combo because of your suspicion of each other, but then I realised that you'd never actually put AP in any danger of getting lynched and was not entirely seriously entertaining ideas of you actually being scum together. And then Tammy posts that she finds your behaviour relating to AP odd in the ways that I did and it felt worth commenting on to me. (and also made me feel like I wasn't going crazy)

She's probably the last person I plan to re-evaluate just because there's nothing I've seen that makes me think scum and so many of her posts reaffirm my townread. I know the buddying's probably been a bit much and the townread may be irrationally strong, but everything I've said is how I feel and I don't know what else to say about that.

[The Fox and the Hound]

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about mindset.

Also, my point was that there was nothing in that post that actually refuted what I was concerned about (probably not what Tammy was concerned about either), so you thinking like that was some big deal struck me as really odd and possibly struggling to find a reason to scumread us.

[CarbonFiber]

If you've been reading the game, you'd have noticed that there was really no chance of anything other than a Cupcake lynch happening. I pushed AP against Cupcake but no one was listening and I just sort of gave up because some people seemed determine to push through the Cupcake lynch and not consider that AP was scum. And if the Cupcake lynch was happening, I wanted it to happen sooner rather than later. As for voting, please don't ask me why I am voting or not voting any particular player or when I choose to vote or not vote. You are not going to get anywhere.

Day 2, I suspected Mastin with AP as a second suspect. Mastin wagon was what was happening. That was the lynch that was going to go through - the one on my top suspect so naturally I pushed that lynch harder. I wondered if Mastin was town a few times before deadline and that's why I suggested lynching AP. I guess it is not impossible for scum to keep their buddies as their second/third suspects while pushing town lynches but the entire interaction between AP and me since he joined the game makes it unlikely that we are buddies and it should be fairly obvious to anyone. In any case, what is your read on AP? Are you scumreading him?

I suspect you =/= setting you up for a lynch. You've been doing this with nearly everyone that suspects you in this game. I said I liked DV's analysis and effort into the JSU/AP/Cupcake team but I didn't like a lot of the other posts that I linked above.

Also, if you suspect a me/AP team, quit being completely ridiculous and help me lynch him then.

[CarbonFiber]

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about mindset.

Also, my point was that there was nothing in that post that actually refuted what I was concerned about (probably not what Tammy was concerned about either), so you thinking like that was some big deal struck me as really odd and possibly struggling to find a reason to scumread us.

I think we are referring to different things. I was referring to more of Tammy's push on me about "coming up with new ways that AP is scum" while ignoring my multitude of posts pointing out that AP was doing the same thing so it felt odd that you went "oh, I agree" instead of "isn't AP doing it too?" I didn't realize your actual fear was both AP and I being scum.

Also, I take back what I wrote about helping me lynch AP in my previous post. I got serious again after swearing I'd let AP and Nacho win and congratulate them at endgame so. It if up to the town to figure shit out and I'm not going to push the town into lynching my scumspects.

[CarbonFiber]

1 Kagura (borkjerfkin + nachomamma8)
2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
4 Magenta_thegreat (mara and orci) 4 orcinus_theoriginal
5 Titan (Tammy + Sir Arthur Dane)
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
13 Red Gyarados (Brian Skies and notscience)
15 PeregrineV
16 Penguin_Alien16 Clyton

and if that were the case, that would mean all four scum would be somewhere in this list.

I don't think you are Arthur are scum, I don't think Gary is scum, and I know for sure that I'm not scum. Nacho doesn't seem to be scum this game, either but that's a read I'm not to sure on, which would mean the scum team is this


2 The Fox and the Hound (cephrir and DV)
10 Carbon Fiber (FourTrouble and F16)
15 PeregrineV
16 Penguin_Alien16 Clyton

this list is a little worrisome, though because it doesn't seem all to likely even as a PoE

Why doesn't Nacho seem to be scum this game? Can you elaborate on your townread on Red Gyarados?

[CarbonFiber]

Are you getting after me here.

Could you please stop posting this? It is irritating me. Nothing I'm doing this game has an attempt to "get at you" or at least not intentionally and I have no desire to do that.

You expect me to see you as obviously town and not question your affiliation and I am at that point right now in that I don't think anything will change my read. I half-wanted to respond to your question about my read on you with the same quote but that would have been immature so I wrote a long wall explaining stuff. There is nothing even new in there, just more graphic detail. I came into this game with high spirits and they've all sunk back down again - it is not to do with the players, in a different game, I'd be happier but this game has just been a downward spiral.

[DeasVail]

If you've been reading the game, you'd have noticed that there was really no chance of anything other than a Cupcake lynch happening. I pushed AP against Cupcake but no one was listening and I just sort of gave up because some people seemed determine to push through the Cupcake lynch and not consider that AP was scum. And if the Cupcake lynch was happening, I wanted it to happen sooner rather than later. As for voting, please don't ask me why I am voting or not voting any particular player or when I choose to vote or not vote. You are not going to get anywhere.

Day 2, I suspected Mastin with AP as a second suspect. Mastin wagon was what was happening. That was the lynch that was going to go through - the one on my top suspect so naturally I pushed that lynch harder. I wondered if Mastin was town a few times before deadline and that's why I suggested lynching AP. I guess it is not impossible for scum to keep their buddies as their second/third suspects while pushing town lynches but the entire interaction between AP and me since he joined the game makes it unlikely that we are buddies and it should be fairly obvious to anyone. In any case, what is your read on AP? Are you scumreading him?

I suspect you =/= setting you up for a lynch. You've been doing this with nearly everyone that suspects you in this game. I said I liked DV's analysis and effort into the JSU/AP/Cupcake team but I didn't like a lot of the other posts that I linked above.

Also, if you suspect a me/AP team, quit being completely ridiculous and help me lynch him then.

Well the whole Cupcake lynch/AP thing is what I want to investigate, and I may as well do it along with the rest of your ISO. I plan to get onto that tonight.

I think my AP read is as it was when I posted my reads list last night, and as indicated there, I currently think you more likely scum than him, but as I also said there, I feel that apart from JSU and Titan (and who actually knows with them really?) I don't have a good grasp on the game at all.

Well of course you're going to say that you're not setting me up for a lynch. Even now you could go back on it and find me scummy enough to lynch or whatever. You said you liked my catch-up walls (I'm pretty sure this more accurately describes the posts you just said you don't like than JSU/Cupcake/AP but I plan on thinking about that as I ISO) and then you said you didn't, so obviously if you're scum that kind of thing is not beyond you.

I do worry about being too OMGUSy, but I feel like I've had good reason every time I have lashed out at someone for suspecting me, and it's not like I've ever relentlessly pushed a lynch because of it. With Stalin, ffery was using something as a scumtell that applied to the two main town games we shared. Nacho is nacho, and with you, it seems like you have contradicted yourself (although I am cautious about this) and I've explained why I think your response to my agreement with Tammy was kind of bad.

There's also the fact that unless the scum are all among the top universal townreads (in which case we're all probably doomed anyway) they're probably running out of mislynches to procure, and even though I think we've been really town, we're obviously not townread strongly by anyone with a lot of influence, so it makes complete sense that scum would want us lynched, and we're probably one of the easier ones left to get. So even though I'm not going to get carried away with ranting about people suspecting me, I'm definitely going to consider it and pressure people where I can.

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about mindset.

Also, my point was that there was nothing in that post that actually refuted what I was concerned about (probably not what Tammy was concerned about either), so you thinking like that was some big deal struck me as really odd and possibly struggling to find a reason to scumread us.

I think we are referring to different things. I was referring to more of Tammy's push on me about "coming up with new ways that AP is scum" while ignoring my multitude of posts pointing out that AP was doing the same thing so it felt odd that you went "oh, I agree" instead of "isn't AP doing it too?" I didn't realize your actual fear was both AP and I being scum.

Also, I take back what I wrote about helping me lynch AP in my previous post. I got serious again after swearing I'd let AP and Nacho win and congratulate them at endgame so. It if up to the town to figure shit out and I'm not going to push the town into lynching my scumspects.

See this is what confuses me. Everyone always goes on about how having good reads is only half the battle, and it has been mentioned many a time that my lack of confidence impedes me in this regard, but this kind of attitude surprises me from you and has me wondering whether you're only justifying it so that it fits with your play this game.

And if you are town I'm really sorry for losing it earlier.

[The Fox and the Hound]

If you've been reading the game, you'd have noticed that there was really no chance of anything other than a Cupcake lynch happening. I pushed AP against Cupcake but no one was listening and I just sort of gave up because some people seemed determine to push through the Cupcake lynch and not consider that AP was scum. And if the Cupcake lynch was happening, I wanted it to happen sooner rather than later. As for voting, please don't ask me why I am voting or not voting any particular player or when I choose to vote or not vote. You are not going to get anywhere.

Day 2, I suspected Mastin with AP as a second suspect. Mastin wagon was what was happening. That was the lynch that was going to go through - the one on my top suspect so naturally I pushed that lynch harder. I wondered if Mastin was town a few times before deadline and that's why I suggested lynching AP. I guess it is not impossible for scum to keep their buddies as their second/third suspects while pushing town lynches but the entire interaction between AP and me since he joined the game makes it unlikely that we are buddies and it should be fairly obvious to anyone. In any case, what is your read on AP? Are you scumreading him?

I suspect you =/= setting you up for a lynch. You've been doing this with nearly everyone that suspects you in this game. I said I liked DV's analysis and effort into the JSU/AP/Cupcake team but I didn't like a lot of the other posts that I linked above.

Also, if you suspect a me/AP team, quit being completely ridiculous and help me lynch him then.

Well the whole Cupcake lynch/AP thing is what I want to investigate, and I may as well do it along with the rest of your ISO. I plan to get onto that tonight.

I think my AP read is as it was when I posted my reads list last night, and as indicated there, I currently think you more likely scum than him, but as I also said there, I feel that apart from JSU and Titan (and who actually knows with them really?) I don't have a good grasp on the game at all.

Well of course you're going to say that you're not setting me up for a lynch. Even now you could go back on it and find me scummy enough to lynch or whatever. You said you liked my catch-up walls (I'm pretty sure this more accurately describes the posts you just said you don't like than JSU/Cupcake/AP but I plan on thinking about that as I ISO) and then you said you didn't, so obviously if you're scum that kind of thing is not beyond you.

I do worry about being too OMGUSy, but I feel like I've had good reason every time I have lashed out at someone for suspecting me, and it's not like I've ever relentlessly pushed a lynch because of it. With Stalin, ffery was using something as a scumtell that applied to the two main town games we shared. Nacho is nacho, and with you, it seems like you have contradicted yourself (although I am cautious about this) and I've explained why I think your response to my agreement with Tammy was kind of bad.

There's also the fact that unless the scum are all among the top universal townreads (in which case we're all probably doomed anyway) they're probably running out of mislynches to procure, and even though I think we've been really town, we're obviously not townread strongly by anyone with a lot of influence, so it makes complete sense that scum would want us lynched, and we're probably one of the easier ones left to get. So even though I'm not going to get carried away with ranting about people suspecting me, I'm definitely going to consider it and pressure people where I can.

That's not what I was saying. I was talking about mindset.

Also, my point was that there was nothing in that post that actually refuted what I was concerned about (probably not what Tammy was concerned about either), so you thinking like that was some big deal struck me as really odd and possibly struggling to find a reason to scumread us.

I think we are referring to different things. I was referring to more of Tammy's push on me about "coming up with new ways that AP is scum" while ignoring my multitude of posts pointing out that AP was doing the same thing so it felt odd that you went "oh, I agree" instead of "isn't AP doing it too?" I didn't realize your actual fear was both AP and I being scum.

Also, I take back what I wrote about helping me lynch AP in my previous post. I got serious again after swearing I'd let AP and Nacho win and congratulate them at endgame so. It if up to the town to figure shit out and I'm not going to push the town into lynching my scumspects.

See this is what confuses me. Everyone always goes on about how having good reads is only half the battle, and it has been mentioned many a time that my lack of confidence impedes me in this regard, but this kind of attitude surprises me from you and has me wondering whether you're only justifying it so that it fits with your play this game.

And if you are town I'm really sorry for losing it earlier.

oops

[CarbonFiber]

I think my AP read is as it was when I posted my reads list last night, and as indicated there, I currently think you more likely scum than him, but as I also said there, I feel that apart from JSU and Titan (and who actually knows with them really?) I don't have a good grasp on the game at all.

So, you think AP is town but think that I am scum because AP (your townread) was my secondary suspect? I don't see how your read on me changes from town to scum through agreement with Tammy saying we're scum together when you are not even sold on AP being scum. Elaborate on this.

Well of course you're going to say that you're not setting me up for a lynch. Even now you could go back on it and find me scummy enough to lynch or whatever.

Well, reads change - it is the reasoning for the change that matters. Why are acting like everyone that questions you is out there to lynch you and is scum setting you up? Like, it should be really obvious that I am trying to figure out your affiliation and it comes across as even wierder that your read changes from town to scum upon being questioned.

You said you liked my catch-up walls (I'm pretty sure this more accurately describes the posts you just said you don't like than JSU/Cupcake/AP but I plan on thinking about that as I ISO) and then you said you didn't, so obviously if you're scum that kind of thing is not beyond you.

I liked some of your catch up walls, didn't like others. I

just

explained this in my previous post. I even pointed out which ones I like and which ones I dislike.

I do worry about being too OMGUSy, but I feel like I've had good reason every time I have lashed out at someone for suspecting me, and it's not like I've ever relentlessly pushed a lynch because of it. With Stalin, ffery was using something as a scumtell that applied to the two main town games we shared. Nacho is nacho, and with you, it seems like you have contradicted yourself (although I am cautious about this) and I've explained why I think your response to my agreement with Tammy was kind of bad.

Is this something you routinely do in your town games?

There's also the fact that unless the scum are all among the top universal townreads (in which case we're all probably doomed anyway) they're probably running out of mislynches to procure, and even though I think we've been really town, we're obviously not townread strongly by anyone with a lot of influence, so it makes complete sense that scum would want us lynched, and we're probably one of the easier ones left to get. So even though I'm not going to get carried away with ranting about people suspecting me, I'm definitely going to consider it and pressure people where I can.

Okay, I can sort of see this as town. I guess it is just annoying when you react to questioning/suspicion by "you are suspecting me, ergo scum" because that sort of a response doesn't help me figure you out, and if you are town, it doesn't help me realize that.

See this is what confuses me. Everyone always goes on about how having good reads is only half the battle, and it has been mentioned many a time that my lack of confidence impedes me in this regard, but this kind of attitude surprises me from you and has me wondering whether you're only justifying it so that it fits with your play this game. And if you are town I'm really sorry for losing it earlier.

I am not exactly sure what you are talking about here. Mind rephrasing? What attitude from me surprises you, you seem to be implying that you expect a certain attitude from me?

As for why I am not pushing for lynches right now, it should be fairly obvious. Just look at the state of the game and look at how the majority of people are approaching the game and it should be obvious why I am trying to ease up (but failing so far).