Mafiascum.net

skitter has every reason to want to get in on the ground floor of a bus and much less reason to wagon hop a townie who's already a runaway vote, esp. when she has to fear being accused of opportunism

"Rule by the One"

Event Rules

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Decision 9.1.6

Current Nominee:

Ydrasse

YEA [1]:

Gamma Emerald

NAY [2]:

Taly, petapan

Not Voting [2]:

Gammagooey, Ydrasse

Once all contestants have voted, we will move to the next nominee. "VOTE: YEA" eliminates, "VOTE: NAY" spares.
Until all votes are cast, votes can be swapped. All players not voting at deadline will select "NAY".

The deadline for this decision is in:

(expired on 2021-11-18 12:10:31)

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Avicii - Silhouettes

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▶ ❚❚ ──────────────────────●────────  3:01 / 3:31

                       

In post 1155, Morning Tweet wrote:Decision 1.8
Gamma Emerald [8]: Gypyx, Cephrir, PookyTheMagicalBear, Ydrasse,

Saber

,

skitter30

, ulyana,

Dunnstral

Cephrir [1]: SirCakez
petapan [1]: Toogeloo
ulyana [1]: Gamma Emerald

Not Voting [5]: Taly, petapan, Galron, Infinity 324, Dwlee99

With 16 contestants remaining, it takes 9 votes to place a player in the chair. If deadline is reached, plurality is in effect.

The deadline for this decision is in: (expired on 2021-10-12 01:43:44).

there's exactly one tenet of VCA i actually believe in

and that is that a day 1 scum wagon in a large game is always filthy. every single time. without exception. i will mine data on this

now this doesn't necessarily mean that scum going all in on a day 1 wagon means it's a bus but i feel, without doing research, it's >>rand a wagon on scum? normally is posturing off-wagon for towncred. that they weren't here, when there wasn't even a counterwagon, feels notable

if we hypothesize that scum knew the throne was a kingmaker...why were none of them seemingly afraid of getting retaliated on?

gonna read the quotes that were pulled now that things aren't so noisy

In post 6829, Taly wrote:If Gamma is scum, then the only teammate he protected was Skitter, and he did so without needing to justify why.

Okay, and? That'd be largely consistent with play from the other flipped scum slots, distance from each other, don't attack skitter too much unless she's trying to distance with you

However, Saber, Dunn, and Galron were all in his PoE. That's an alarming 3 out of 4 scum if Galron is scum here.

i understand that hypothetical POV, but isn't it just as easily explainable by gamma being informed? Like, I don't want to quote Prism again, but seriously, he has a point

It's also notable to look at Gamma's progression. I feel like his reasons for shooting Dunn/Galron outweighed Dwlee/Toog in terms of what was likelier sxunplay here. Not to say that Galron is scum, but I I saying that if Galrob is scum, the scumteam was privy to a very high possibility to having one of their own shot and couldn't even clearly tell who by Gamma's posting alone.

So a sabotage makes sense for Gamma-town if you believe Galron could've been scum.

And the only reason I could consider Gamma-scum being possible here is if the team just wanted to distance from Gamma.... because they used up a sabotage when a towny was most likely getting shot.

i mean, my problem here is that you're all looking only at the angles from which Galron-scum is possible

and i admit that's not a completely implausible narrative. but it feels like you're not weighing the possibilities equally. like, yes, scum could want to sabotage to protect a teammate...but then, why was skitter trying to throw galron under the bus in the first place if they didn't want him to flip? why spend a sabotage saving a teammate just to bus him in the next phase by putting him in a duel and trying to get him to duel with dunn or saber? the entire thing would be borderline gamethrow levels of scumplay and while there are some players on this site who would javelin throw against their team like that, skitter is too smart for that

it requires so many pieces to be put in place for the scum's plan that just seem bizarre and counterintuitive

whereas the much simpler explanation is: the scum burned a sabotage on event one to kill pooky because skitter has nightmares of the teddy bear when she goes to sleep. they use the WIFOM from galron being targeted to try to set up a chain mis-elim in the next event phase

and for context on skitter's vote on Gamma: she recently lost two games as scum where her teammate went over day 1 while she was V/LA (i was her teammate in one, i made a bad decision because i was was afraid of a runaway wagon. we lost). getting in and seeing a runaway wagon on a partner, she'd absolutely panic-bus because she doesn't want to get steamrolled again (easier in a mountainous game to bus too since no worries about PRs, although pseudo-nightless makes it a degree harder)

but if it slowed down and town started second-guessing...she'd go for the gutsy play and try for a counterwagon on town. and that narrative just makes far much more sense here

every time gamma emerald posts he looks like he's struggling to come up with excuses and every time gammagooey posts he looks like someone who is somehow not aware that taly will flip town

In post 6849, Ydrasse wrote:i mean, right before the heaven/hell pts i was pointing out how weird things were regarding gamma emerald so i err towards that being scum

i feel bad for leaving him as a blind spot for so long

i dunno he's good at posting things that look fine in the moment and i suck for ignoring the warning signs


but also i was really so mentally withdrawn from the game until TA flipped, i seriously feel like a weighted vest got taken off me

In post 6930, petapan wrote:and for context on skitter's vote on Gamma: she recently lost two games as scum where her teammate went over day 1 while she was V/LA (i was her teammate in one, i made a bad decision because i was was afraid of a runaway wagon. we lost). getting in and seeing a runaway wagon on a partner, she'd absolutely panic-bus because she doesn't want to get steamrolled again (easier in a mountainous game to bus too since no worries about PRs, although pseudo-nightless makes it a degree harder)

but if it slowed down and town started second-guessing...she'd go for the gutsy play and try for a counterwagon on town. and that narrative just makes far much more sense here

and I'd tell her to fuck off w that noise because I'm pretty sure I was also her partner in one of those instances and I feel like going into damage control mode is just, not how you play that sort of thing?

thinking about it, I cannot condone what peta did by deliberately leaning on personal conflict as a point to clear him, there was plenty else to go on but he chose to knowingly abuse that interaction for personal gain.

In post 6933, Gamma Emerald wrote:and I'd tell her to fuck off w that noise because I'm pretty sure I was also her partner in one of those instances and I feel like going into damage control mode is just, not how you play that sort of thing?

oh right you were lol

well it's not like you can tell her what to do and she did try to dismantle the wagon later

In post 6934, Gamma Emerald wrote:thinking about it, I cannot condone what peta did by deliberately leaning on personal conflict as a point to clear him, there was plenty else to go on but he chose to knowingly abuse that interaction for personal gain.

good, come at me

might be a more workable angle for you than gammagooey

I’m not saying you’re scum, I’m saying you had like a million other arguments you could have come up with that don’t revolve around your spat with HQ. I just think you need to check your values because you are placing winning this game over treating others with respect.

i don't respect people who try to invoke their mental health as a defense against being scumread

Cool. Don’t ever queue in a game with me again.

it completely sabotages game integrity because it leaves no fair way for me to interact with a player who is claiming that

i was dead serious when i told her not to engage with me after that

unless you think i faked that (fucking christ) this argument is irrelevant

i mean if you think utterly piggish behavior like that is acceptable in mafia games because it's your friend doing it, that's your prerogative but i don't agree

i would personally prefer it if people did NOT try to abuse claims of mental health issues in games to gain an advantage as that creates an exceptionally toxic environment for games, in my opinion

this isn't really relevant to the scope of the game before us, anyway. maybe there's a discussion for postgame but i feel i've made myself clear and said what i would've said then

if you think i'm scum, case me. if not, there's no point to this.

In post 6931, petapan wrote:every time gamma emerald posts he looks like he's struggling to come up with excuses and every time gammagooey posts he looks like someone who is somehow not aware that taly will flip town

I could still be wrong about Taly being scum, I just still think they make much more sense as scum than anyone else in the game. Your idea of the scumteam seems to be that they went all-out in bussing Gemerald at the start, let him bus basically everyone but skitter back immediately and eventually bussing Fire at the end of the crossing. My thoughts on Gemerald are that a LOT of his pushes seem genuine, and I think he's played as I think a lot of townies do - fairly bullheaded with a focus on how people are reacting to his specific opinions and expecting people to either follow him or specifically convince , not necessarily the game as a whole, that their opinions are correct and that he, Gemerald, should follow them.

Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum, complained about previous choices of "why didn't I put Saber in the duel!" but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Granted, I can't attribute all of that to strictly town/scum because there are substantial playstyle differences between the two. But I have a pretty solid archetype of "aggressive townie with a slightly self-centered game-view" in my head from previous games and I think GE fits that to a tee.

p-edit: can ya'll chill
it's still a game even when people you think people are being jerks or unfair by doing something and you can disagree with people diplomatically instead of doing out of game callouts and making the game worse

i'm not going to hold my tongue about how i feel about toxic behavior to gain an ingame advantage, sorry. if the friction bothers you, deal with it

p-edit: was gonna ask you to vote so we can move on, thank you

In post 6944, Gammagooey wrote:Taly on the other hand has dumped tons and tons of thoughts into the thread about potential scum,

What are you saying here? That all my pushes this game were half-ased?

complained about previous choices of "why didn't I put Saber in the duel!"

This is a blatant misrepreswntation. Not once had I preferred to put Saber in the duel on retrospect. A nom, yes, but this phrasing is inconsistent with the timeline.

,

but pushed for people to go with consensus reads while nudging those reads away from scum (aside from Dunn who wasn't participating enough in the game to be worth defending long-term), which fits WAY more in terms of what I expect scum to try to do to get townies eliminated without coming under fire for it.

Huh?

1. What consensus reads did I push people to make?
2. Where is the argument that I'm scum here?
3. How did I budge views away from scum that I was correct on like Dunn - who I wagoned Event 2?

I can't follow your argument on me at all and it feels left-field compared to what you were just implying about my Pink PT performance.

Did you know I spent most of the pink PT 1v1ing Skitter on my Ydrasse read? Not that you'd care to hear me dispel the mystery of Event 4.

Like dude I don't know how you're spewing this bullshit.