Mini 869 - Frat Party Mafia (GAME OVER!)
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- MichelSableheart
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
- Mafia Scum
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- dramonic
- dramonic
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dramonic
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works for me too, obviously.
Vanilla, btw.
Vote: Nacho
Vanilla, btw.
I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
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- xRECKONERx
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xRECKONERx
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- dramonic
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dramonic
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well, scum is evidently me or nacho, therefore I dont need to unvote.Taranski wrote:eh unvote, wanna think things through a bit
I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
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- dramonic
- dramonic
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dramonic
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not really no.
If we were both town, scum could have quickhammered me and won by now.
If we were both town, scum could have quickhammered me and won by now.
I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
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- dramonic
- dramonic
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dramonic
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- Location: The land of plush
Well, they've had a fair amount of time to synche. I've been at L-2 for a while now.
I'm a hoot
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
Stream: twitch.tv/dramonic
-If you stick your ear close enough to the game thread you can actually hear dram suffer in real life.-Beeboy
-Being obtuse is not a consequence of being a mod, it's a prerequisite. I think you may just have overestimated my intelligence before.-Korts
- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
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But they're both extremely inactive and come on at different time, and you can't exactly post in thread "Hey, let's both meet in the thread at 5:00 today, board time."Well, they've had a fair amount of time to synche. I've been at L-2 for a while now.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
- MichelSableheart
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
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- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
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Mmkay, thanks for clarifying. But you still haven't answered me...Unless otherwise specified, living players can't communicate with each other out of the thread. By default, I allow mafia to daytalk. I will set up a QuickTopic for anyone who is able to communicate with someone else.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
- MichelSableheart
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
- Mafia Scum
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- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
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- MichelSableheart
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
- Mafia Scum
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I thought I had already explained in post #693. But here's a concise version:Nachomamma wrote:So guys, tell me one more time why I'm scum.
I am assuming there were three mafia, considering that we had a cop, a doc and a one shot vig. With one mafia dead, that means there are two mafia still alive.
I strongly believe dramonic to be town, because I can not see scum behave the way Seraphim did day 1 (see post #693). Besides that, all interactions seem to indicate that dramonic is town. (see next post)
I also don't believe a Dragonfly - Taranski pairing is possible, because they would have used their ability to daytalk to organise a quicklynch of dramonic by now.
This means that you can't be town, because then there can't be two mafia still alive. Therefore, you are mafia.
There is no 'a' in Michel.
- MichelSableheart
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
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Ok, I've finished reading the thread for connections. All listed posts are ISO numbers. Also, I have ignored any mentions of Groinhammer or Saberwolf. Those aren't going to give me significant connection info, because I know myself to be town.
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We start with the known scum.
Out of the living players, Kise has pressured Seraphim on his own accord. A short line in ISO 13, focussing attention on him in #20, #21 and #22, attacking him as part of a group in #32, attacking him again in #37, and bringing him into the spotlight in #43.
His behaviour towards Taranski has been exactly the opposite. He has been defending him from post #13, again in #17 (though that one was in response to someone's questioning) and yet again in #30.
Nachomamma is shortly mentioned in #6 and again used as reference in #29. Those are the only two times kise mentioned nachomamma, and neither contained any comments on him.
With dragonfly, something similar happened. Dragonfly is namedropped in #13 and #30, neither of which actually contain comments on dragonfly. He responds to a question dragonfly asks directly of him in #28, and gives his opinion on dragonfly in #34 in response to a request from Hoopla. Both of these last two were done in response to someone else specifically asking something of him, though.
I did a short meta read on the two completed games kise has on MS where he was mafia: Vengeful mafia and Kubrick mafia. In both cases kise seemed to mostly ignore his partners, unless he was specifically asked to respond to them. Again a point against Dragonfly and Nachomamma. This also makes Seraphim/dramonic more likely town, because Kise is unlikely to mention suspicion of a partner who is not under serious threat.
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I can not see any significant difference in Seraphim's behaviour towards the different living players or Kise. He has been making short jabs at all of them. Post #10 contains his suspicion list, which lists Taranski as scum, dragonfly and nachomamma as neutral, and mentions that he wants to hear more from Kise. ISO #13 is also interesting, because it is prodding Kise for responses during day 1 when Kise wasn't being pressured. Not behaviour I expect to see from scum towards a partner. Scum would probably be content to let their partner lurk away.
Before his ISO #18, dramonic had not given a significant opinion on anyone. Instead, he mainly had been discussing the no lynch, which was the mayor talk of day 3. This doesn't give me much to look for scum connections though. No tells either way.
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Before his vote in post #35, Nachomamma didn't mention Kise at all. And the only reason he gave for voting Kise was that noone was willing to support a saberwolf lynch. If dragonfly was getting attacked for ignoring Kise, Nachomamma should be attacked for exactly the same.
During day 1, the only still living player nachomamma came in serious contact with is Taranski. #10 is mild defense of his opinions, #12 is agreeing with blood against Taranski, #13 is mild pressure. In post #36, he called Taranski one of his top 3 suspects, without giving a reason. In post #62, Taranski had disappeared of his top suspect list, again without any reason given.
His interactions with Dragonfly are interesting too. There is no interaction whatsoever during day 1 or 2, but then in post #36 Dragonfly is suddenly one of his top suspects, with no reason given. Also interesting: in ISO #43, he calls DRK's case ("dragonfly and kise virtually didn't interact") not too compelling, but in post #63 (with no interaction in between), he mentions DRK's read and the interaction between dragonfly and kise during day 1 as the main reasons for being suspicious of dragonfly. He gives as his reason something he didn't find very impressive, which hadn't come up when he first listed dragonfly as top suspect. This suspicion of dragonfly seems to be completely fabricated.
There is no mentioning whatsoever of either Seraphim or dramonic, except when discussing completely different topics. That is, before he votes dramonic in Lylo.
Nachomamma tends to ignore all players who are not the topic of discussion and often votes without giving his reasoning. Highly suspicious.
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Taranski has been interacting with kise, Seraphim, dragonfly and nachomamma all in roughly the same way. However, all these interactions were during day 1. During day 2 and further, he was a lot less active. He mainly interacted with Starbuck, and his opinions have been solely following Hoopla. Taranski, what caused that change?
Anyway, the only interaction that really stood out to me was a remark made in ISO #58. There, he expressed doubt about Kise being scum. I'm inclined to believe that makes him slightly more likely town, because bussing scum wants to get credit for being on the wagon. However, it could just as well be scum keeping open the possibility to hop of when an opportunity should arise. No strong tell.
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Finally, Dragonfly.
In ISO #38, he claimed to have ignored Seraphim, nachomamma and Taranski, as well as Kise (who he was being accused of ignoring). Interesting enough, those are exactly the four people I've been looking for.
All mentions of Seraphim, Nachomamma or Taranski happened in or before ISO #10, and those connections were mainly responding to others posts. ISO #7 contains a simple question for Taranski, ISO #9 is questioning Nachomamma. There's not much info to draw here though.
It's his interaction with Kise that I find most interesting. Post #13 is a very simple question about why Kise is voting BC. Kise response is rather defensive, and dragonfly hastens to explain that there was nothing wrong about Kise vote. If there is no suspicion there, why question? Just to be able to say that you didn't completely ignore your scumbuddy? This interaction feels odd and unnatural.
Also interesting: In #21, in response to Hoopla, he claims to have a slightly scummy gut read on Kise. During the rest of day 2, he goes back to safely ignoring Kise, even though Kise is the most likely lynchcandidate.
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Overall conclusions: I firmly stand by my read of a Dragonfly - Nachomamma scumteam. I'm willing to take a while to answer questions and listen to responses, but will likely vote Nachomamma soon.
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We start with the known scum.
Out of the living players, Kise has pressured Seraphim on his own accord. A short line in ISO 13, focussing attention on him in #20, #21 and #22, attacking him as part of a group in #32, attacking him again in #37, and bringing him into the spotlight in #43.
His behaviour towards Taranski has been exactly the opposite. He has been defending him from post #13, again in #17 (though that one was in response to someone's questioning) and yet again in #30.
Nachomamma is shortly mentioned in #6 and again used as reference in #29. Those are the only two times kise mentioned nachomamma, and neither contained any comments on him.
With dragonfly, something similar happened. Dragonfly is namedropped in #13 and #30, neither of which actually contain comments on dragonfly. He responds to a question dragonfly asks directly of him in #28, and gives his opinion on dragonfly in #34 in response to a request from Hoopla. Both of these last two were done in response to someone else specifically asking something of him, though.
I did a short meta read on the two completed games kise has on MS where he was mafia: Vengeful mafia and Kubrick mafia. In both cases kise seemed to mostly ignore his partners, unless he was specifically asked to respond to them. Again a point against Dragonfly and Nachomamma. This also makes Seraphim/dramonic more likely town, because Kise is unlikely to mention suspicion of a partner who is not under serious threat.
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I can not see any significant difference in Seraphim's behaviour towards the different living players or Kise. He has been making short jabs at all of them. Post #10 contains his suspicion list, which lists Taranski as scum, dragonfly and nachomamma as neutral, and mentions that he wants to hear more from Kise. ISO #13 is also interesting, because it is prodding Kise for responses during day 1 when Kise wasn't being pressured. Not behaviour I expect to see from scum towards a partner. Scum would probably be content to let their partner lurk away.
Before his ISO #18, dramonic had not given a significant opinion on anyone. Instead, he mainly had been discussing the no lynch, which was the mayor talk of day 3. This doesn't give me much to look for scum connections though. No tells either way.
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Before his vote in post #35, Nachomamma didn't mention Kise at all. And the only reason he gave for voting Kise was that noone was willing to support a saberwolf lynch. If dragonfly was getting attacked for ignoring Kise, Nachomamma should be attacked for exactly the same.
During day 1, the only still living player nachomamma came in serious contact with is Taranski. #10 is mild defense of his opinions, #12 is agreeing with blood against Taranski, #13 is mild pressure. In post #36, he called Taranski one of his top 3 suspects, without giving a reason. In post #62, Taranski had disappeared of his top suspect list, again without any reason given.
His interactions with Dragonfly are interesting too. There is no interaction whatsoever during day 1 or 2, but then in post #36 Dragonfly is suddenly one of his top suspects, with no reason given. Also interesting: in ISO #43, he calls DRK's case ("dragonfly and kise virtually didn't interact") not too compelling, but in post #63 (with no interaction in between), he mentions DRK's read and the interaction between dragonfly and kise during day 1 as the main reasons for being suspicious of dragonfly. He gives as his reason something he didn't find very impressive, which hadn't come up when he first listed dragonfly as top suspect. This suspicion of dragonfly seems to be completely fabricated.
There is no mentioning whatsoever of either Seraphim or dramonic, except when discussing completely different topics. That is, before he votes dramonic in Lylo.
Nachomamma tends to ignore all players who are not the topic of discussion and often votes without giving his reasoning. Highly suspicious.
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Taranski has been interacting with kise, Seraphim, dragonfly and nachomamma all in roughly the same way. However, all these interactions were during day 1. During day 2 and further, he was a lot less active. He mainly interacted with Starbuck, and his opinions have been solely following Hoopla. Taranski, what caused that change?
Anyway, the only interaction that really stood out to me was a remark made in ISO #58. There, he expressed doubt about Kise being scum. I'm inclined to believe that makes him slightly more likely town, because bussing scum wants to get credit for being on the wagon. However, it could just as well be scum keeping open the possibility to hop of when an opportunity should arise. No strong tell.
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Finally, Dragonfly.
In ISO #38, he claimed to have ignored Seraphim, nachomamma and Taranski, as well as Kise (who he was being accused of ignoring). Interesting enough, those are exactly the four people I've been looking for.
All mentions of Seraphim, Nachomamma or Taranski happened in or before ISO #10, and those connections were mainly responding to others posts. ISO #7 contains a simple question for Taranski, ISO #9 is questioning Nachomamma. There's not much info to draw here though.
It's his interaction with Kise that I find most interesting. Post #13 is a very simple question about why Kise is voting BC. Kise response is rather defensive, and dragonfly hastens to explain that there was nothing wrong about Kise vote. If there is no suspicion there, why question? Just to be able to say that you didn't completely ignore your scumbuddy? This interaction feels odd and unnatural.
Also interesting: In #21, in response to Hoopla, he claims to have a slightly scummy gut read on Kise. During the rest of day 2, he goes back to safely ignoring Kise, even though Kise is the most likely lynchcandidate.
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Overall conclusions: I firmly stand by my read of a Dragonfly - Nachomamma scumteam. I'm willing to take a while to answer questions and listen to responses, but will likely vote Nachomamma soon.
There is no 'a' in Michel.
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Nachomamma8
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This isn't exactly a safe assumption. In my past 3 games, I've currently been proven wrong with guessing how many scum were left (Read the Themed Game Crayola Catastrophe.I am assuming there were three mafia, considering that we had a cop, a doc and a one shot vig. With one mafia dead, that means there are two mafia still alive.
I really didn't do a whole lot Day 1. It was one of those games where it was hard to get out of the RVS stage and start doing scumhunting again. So, since I hadn't posted a lot of content, what content did Kise have to mention? I also have to say he didn't comment a lot on Groinhammer either...Nachomamma is shortly mentioned in #6 and again used as reference in #29. Those are the only two times kise mentioned nachomamma, and neither contained any comments on him.
I actually am confused as to this paragraph. Could you clarify for me?With dragonfly, something similar happened. Dragonfly is namedropped in #13 and #30, neither of which actually contain comments on dragonfly. He responds to a question dragonfly asks directly of him in #28, and gives his opinion on dragonfly in #34 in response to a request from Hoopla. Both of these last two were done in response to someone else specifically asking something of him, though.
In Stars Aligned, a game I played with Kise, he bussed the hell of out one of his scumpartners before he had fallen under major suspicion.This also makes Seraphim/dramonic more likely town, because Kise is unlikely to mention suspicion of a partner who is not under serious threat.
However, it would be beneficial for a mafioso member to yank his scummember our of lurking mode BEFORE he falls under suspicion, now wouldn't it?Scum would probably be content to let their partner lurk away.
I'm confused as to why you're taking this as a nulltell. Not voicing an opinion is far more pro-town than standing back and watching everyone else argue.Before his ISO #18, dramonic had not given a significant opinion on anyone. Instead, he mainly had been discussing the no lynch, which was the mayor talk of day 3. This doesn't give me much to look for scum connections though. No tells either way.
I mentioned fhq ONCE, and that was an answer to a question. I mentioned Starbuck once, and that was me expressing my condolences for her loss. Groinhammer, OMGL (or whatever his name is), I didn't mention as well. The reason why dragonfly's ignoring of Kise was suspicious was because Kise was one of the only people he ignored, not one of many.Before his vote in post #35, Nachomamma didn't mention Kise at all. And the only reason he gave for voting Kise was that noone was willing to support a saberwolf lynch. If dragonfly was getting attacked for ignoring Kise, Nachomamma should be attacked for exactly the same.
I didn't interact with many people during Day 1 or 2. As a result, I didn't do much scumhunting during Day 1 and Day 2. So I went off what everyone else was saying. Was that incredibly lazy? Yes. Is laziness a scumtell? No.His interactions with Dragonfly are interesting too. There is no interaction whatsoever during day 1 or 2, but then in post #36 Dragonfly is suddenly one of his top suspects, with no reason given.
When DRK first presented his case, I had the same reaction as dramonic.Also interesting: in ISO #43, he calls DRK's case ("dragonfly and kise virtually didn't interact") not too compelling, but in post #63 (with no interaction in between), he mentions DRK's read and the interaction between dragonfly and kise during day 1 as the main reasons for being suspicious of dragonfly.
So they barely interacted. So what?
But after DRK's death and the guarantee that all scumhunting he did was made in the best interests of the town, I did a reread and an ISO of both of them, and I found it to be a pretty good point.
I felt that dramonic was skating through the game without providing any content, and I saw that he and I were both online, and no one else was. So, I placed the vote on to force some content out. It never came, even with a vote on him during LyLo. He never expressed suspicion of me during that point, so it didn't seem like he was confident I was scum at that time. He just reacted in a pretty damn uncaring way, as if he knew he wouldn't be quickhammered. Then, he doesn't vote for me until you express suspicion of me, where he does so immediately.
There is no mentioning whatsoever of either Seraphim or dramonic, except when discussing completely different topics. That is, before he votes dramonic in Lylo.
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
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If the assumption is incorrect, and there is only 1 scum remaining, it is possible that you are town, but in that case we can afford a mislynch. 2 scum still alive is the worst case scenario, and therefore a very safe assumption.Nachomamma wrote:This isn't exactly a safe assumption. In my past 3 games, I've currently been proven wrong with guessing how many scum were left (Read the Themed Game Crayola Catastrophe.
Reasonable explanation, but not completely valid. After all, he also didn't comment on you during day 2, and RVS was long since over by then.Nachomamma wrote:I really didn't do a whole lot Day 1. It was one of those games where it was hard to get out of the RVS stage and start doing scumhunting again. So, since I hadn't posted a lot of content, what content did Kise have to mention? I also have to say he didn't comment a lot on Groinhammer either...
If you're going to look at his interactions with me, please look at both my predecessors. Saberwolf replaced Groinhammer halfway through day 1, and was actually questioned by Kise.
As DRK noticed previously, there wasn't much interaction between Kise and Dragonfly, and the interaction present was mainly the result of others asking Kise for responses on Dragonfly. I'm affraid I can't make it much clearer then that.Nachomamma wrote:I actually am confused as to this paragraph. Could you clarify for me?With dragonfly, something similar happened. Dragonfly is namedropped in #13 and #30, neither of which actually contain comments on dragonfly. He responds to a question dragonfly asks directly of him in #28, and gives his opinion on dragonfly in #34 in response to a request from Hoopla. Both of these last two were done in response to someone else specifically asking something of him, though.
Huh? Am I reading the first post of that game wrong? It says he was an investigator, which seems to be pro-town in that game. Expand, please.Nachomamma wrote:In Stars Aligned, a game I played with Kise, he bussed the hell of out one of his scumpartners before he had fallen under major suspicion.
Probably, yes. But that will mean a "I'm hoping to hear more from ..." will be posted. The scumpartner should become more active to avoid suspicion. However, explicitly asking for opinions ruins an important part of the strategy. One of the main reasons lurking is good for scum is that they can avoid giving their opinions.Nachomamma wrote:However, it would be beneficial for a mafioso member to yank his scummember our of lurking mode BEFORE he falls under suspicion, now wouldn't it?
It's because I'm looking for connections between scum, not individual scumtells. Individual scumtells are generally overrated, bandwagon analysis works much better. Because dramonic didn't give his opinions on anyone, there is no difference in his relation to anyone, so no connection to anyone stands out.Nachomamma wrote:I'm confused as to why you're taking this as a nulltell. Not voicing an opinion is far more pro-town than standing back and watching everyone else argue.
You also didn't vote fhq, Starbuck, Groinhammer or OGML. A big difference between the players you mentioned and Kise. Also, note that Dragonfly was ignoring Seraphim, you and Taranski.Nachomamma wrote:I mentioned fhq ONCE, and that was an answer to a question. I mentioned Starbuck once, and that was me expressing my condolences for her loss. Groinhammer, OMGL (or whatever his name is), I didn't mention as well. The reason why dragonfly's ignoring of Kise was suspicious was because Kise was one of the only people he ignored, not one of many.
You went off what everyone else was saying?! Nonsense. Hoopla had stated she believed Dragonfly to be pro-town, nobody else had commented on Dragonfly at all. You were asking everybody about their top 3 suspects, so you didn't know who those top suspects were. Claiming that your suspicion of Dragonfly was the result of following others is ridiculous.Nachomamma wrote:I didn't interact with many people during Day 1 or 2. As a result, I didn't do much scumhunting during Day 1 and Day 2. So I went off what everyone else was saying. Was that incredibly lazy? Yes. Is laziness a scumtell? No.His interactions with Dragonfly are interesting too. There is no interaction whatsoever during day 1 or 2, but then in post #36 Dragonfly is suddenly one of his top suspects, with no reason given.
So despite the fact that DRK specifically asked everyone to do the ISO read when he brought up his case originally, you decided to write it of without actually doing that ISO he suggested? Extremely lazy at the very least.Nachomamma wrote:When DRK first presented his case, I had the same reaction as dramonic. So they barely interacted. So what?
But after DRK's death and the guarantee that all scumhunting he did was made in the best interests of the town, I did a reread and an ISO of both of them, and I found it to be a pretty good point.
I can buy reaction hunting. However, labeling post #657 as uncaring about the vote is strange. He also did give opinions (based mainly on gut) immediately when you voted. If anyone was uncaring about a quickhammer, it would be you. You left your vote on even after you logged of. He was concerned about quickhammering. After all, his vote only came when it was clear that the other three players weren't quickhammering him, even though we all were present.Nachomamma wrote:I felt that dramonic was skating through the game without providing any content, and I saw that he and I were both online, and no one else was. So, I placed the vote on to force some content out. It never came, even with a vote on him during LyLo. He never expressed suspicion of me during that point, so it didn't seem like he was confident I was scum at that time. He just reacted in a pretty damn uncaring way, as if he knew he wouldn't be quickhammered. Then, he doesn't vote for me until you express suspicion of me, where he does so immediately.
There is no 'a' in Michel.
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Nachomamma8
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Then you should be pushing for Dragonfly's lynch, not mine. Because right now, he's not even putting an effort to post content (read: he's lurking), which is pretty damn scummy considering I'm under fire. Also, I'm pretty sure you could see either a me-Dragonfly or a dramonic-Dragonfly scumpair, meaning the main argument is between me and dramonic, right? So why not lynch the scum person that we both feel is scum; if I'm mafia, then I'm just pushing for my partner to get lynched, and it doesn't really matter. But if I'm town, then we aren't losing.If the assumption is incorrect, and there is only 1 scum remaining, it is possible that you are town, but in that case we can afford a mislynch. 2 scum still alive is the worst case scenario, and therefore a very safe assumption.
But I still didn't really say anything day 2, either, save for a case on saberwolf that really didn't get a whole lot of attention.Reasonable explanation, but not completely valid. After all, he also didn't comment on you during day 2, and RVS was long since over by then.
However, Groinhammer had about the same activity level as me. Saber's activity was a lot higher than mine. And since you know Groinhammer was town, I'm just pointing out that Kise didn't really talk about the low-activity people.If you're going to look at his interactions with me, please look at both my predecessors. Saberwolf replaced Groinhammer halfway through day 1, and was actually questioned by Kise.
Ohhh, right... >.>Huh? Am I reading the first post of that game wrong? It says he was an investigator, which seems to be pro-town in that game. Expand, please.
I got him mixed up. And if you read the game and see how scummy he ACTED, you'd see why...
Hmm... If we're talking about the same post, this was at the point where Seraphim was disappearing completely and Kise requested a Seraphim prod. I don't find it completely disbelievable that scum would question a partner that seemed to be disappearing...Probably, yes. But that will mean a "I'm hoping to hear more from ..." will be posted. The scumpartner should become more active to avoid suspicion. However, explicitly asking for opinions ruins an important part of the strategy. One of the main reasons lurking is good for scum is that they can avoid giving their opinions.
The only thing scummier than a strong connection to scum is no connection to anyone.It's because I'm looking for connections between scum, not individual scumtells. Individual scumtells are generally overrated, bandwagon analysis works much better. Because dramonic didn't give his opinions on anyone, there is no difference in his relation to anyone, so no connection to anyone stands out.
No one made a case on fhq, Groinhammer, Starbuck, or OGML that I agreed with, and none of them were coming close to being lynched.You also didn't vote fhq, Starbuck, Groinhammer or OGML. A big difference between the players you mentioned and Kise. Also, note that Dragonfly was ignoring Seraphim, you and Taranski.
This will be addressed in the next post.You went off what everyone else was saying?! Nonsense. Hoopla had stated she believed Dragonfly to be pro-town, nobody else had commented on Dragonfly at all. You were asking everybody about their top 3 suspects, so you didn't know who those top suspects were. Claiming that your suspicion of Dragonfly was the result of following others is ridiculous.
I did the ISO. Did I reread? No. Rereading helps infinitely more than ISOs when looking for connections.So despite the fact that DRK specifically asked everyone to do the ISO read when he brought up his case originally, you decided to write it of without actually doing that ISO he suggested? Extremely lazy at the very least.
I told him I wouldn't unvote until he made a case, did I not? He didn't make a case. He didn't even try; even though my vote put him in quickhammer range. I can guarantee you a townie would make a case for themselves or against someone else in order to get a vote DURING LyLo off them, no matter what. It was uncaring because he didn't try in the least bit, he didn't fight back, and he barely defended himself.I can buy reaction hunting. However, labeling post #657 as uncaring about the vote is strange. He also did give opinions (based mainly on gut) immediately when you voted. If anyone was uncaring about a quickhammer, it would be you. You left your vote on even after you logged of. He was concerned about quickhammering. After all, his vote only came when it was clear that the other three players weren't quickhammering him, even though we all were present.
I made a promise. I kept it. I was going to make damn sure that he wouldn't be quickhammered before I logged off, as long as he tried to make a case of some sort. He didn't.If anyone was uncaring about a quickhammer, it would be you. You left your vote on even after you logged of. He was concerned about quickhammering.
It was clear that the other three players weren't going to quickhammer as soon as dragonfly checked in, so that is complete and total nonsense.After all, his vote only came when it was clear that the other three players weren't quickhammering him, even though we all were present.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
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Except Saberwolf.You went off what everyone else was saying?! Nonsense. Hoopla had stated she believed Dragonfly to be pro-town, nobody else had commented on Dragonfly at all.
Just because I ask for top suspects doesn't mean that I don't know everyone else's. Instead, it most likely means I'm suspecting someone for excessive neutrality. Some like Dragonfly himself, perhaps...You were asking everybody about their top 3 suspects, so you didn't know who those top suspects were. Claiming that your suspicion of Dragonfly was the result of following others is ridiculous.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
- MichelSableheart
- MichelSableheart
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MichelSableheart
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 1773
- Joined: May 31, 2007
- Location: Netherlands
Apologies for the wall of text. Lots of quotes to respond to.
Also, I'm not very interested in discussing with Nachomamma. Most of this seem to be arguments that are irrelevant to my actual observations. And he's likely to keep arguing if that keeps me from voting him. I mainly want to hear Taranski's opinion, and would love to hear from Dragonfly too.
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I admit that it is possible that Kise not commenting on nachomamma and dragonfly is the result of the two of you not being very active. However, that does not alter the fact that Kise scum is less likely to mention his partners, and that he didn't mention either of you, but did mention Seraphim and Taranski. You are more likely scum because of this.
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And this is why I hate quote walls, especially if you start them by taking a sentence out of a paragraph. You get easy miscommunications. Quoted below is the entire exchange:
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As for the individual tell: He didn't mention suspicion on anyone during a period of time when the main topic of discussion was whether or not we should no lynch. Big deal.
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The main problem I have with your interaction with both Kise and Dragonfly, is that you don't mention them at all, but then they suddenly become your top suspects
Your behaviour towards fhq, groinhammer, Starbuck or OGML is completely irrelevant to that argument, because they never became your top suspects.
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So let's see if I understood you correctly. Your top suspect in ISO #36 was Saberwolf. You were pushing for his lynch during the end of day 2 and most of day 3. The other players in your top 3 were Dragonfly and Taranski. Dragonly was on there because Saberwolf was suspicious of him?! So out of all people you could follow, you decided to follow the opinions of the player you believed was scum?!
Also, I'm not very interested in discussing with Nachomamma. Most of this seem to be arguments that are irrelevant to my actual observations. And he's likely to keep arguing if that keeps me from voting him. I mainly want to hear Taranski's opinion, and would love to hear from Dragonfly too.
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dramonic is not an option. I'm confident in my read of Seraphim, who was replaced by dramonic. For me, the doubt is between a nachomamma - dragonfly and a nachomamma - Taranski pairing, with extremely strong suspicions towards the former. Which makes nachomamma the most certain lynch.Nachomamma wrote:Then you should be pushing for Dragonfly's lynch, not mine. Because right now, he's not even putting an effort to post content (read: he's lurking), which is pretty damn scummy considering I'm under fire. Also, I'm pretty sure you could see either a me-Dragonfly or a dramonic-Dragonfly scumpair, meaning the main argument is between me and dramonic, right? So why not lynch the scum person that we both feel is scum; if I'm mafia, then I'm just pushing for my partner to get lynched, and it doesn't really matter. But if I'm town, then we aren't losing.
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I admit that it is possible that Kise not commenting on nachomamma and dragonfly is the result of the two of you not being very active. However, that does not alter the fact that Kise scum is less likely to mention his partners, and that he didn't mention either of you, but did mention Seraphim and Taranski. You are more likely scum because of this.
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And this is why I hate quote walls, especially if you start them by taking a sentence out of a paragraph. You get easy miscommunications. Quoted below is the entire exchange:
Here, I'm obviously analysing Seraphim's posts. ISO #13MichelSableheart wrote:I can not see any significant difference in Seraphim's behaviour towards the different living players or Kise. He has been making short jabs at all of them. Post #10 contains his suspicion list, which lists Taranski as scum, dragonfly and nachomamma as neutral, and mentions that he wants to hear more from Kise. ISO #13 is also interesting, because it is prodding Kise for responses during day 1 when Kise wasn't being pressured. Not behaviour I expect to see from scum towards a partner. Scum would probably be content to let their partner lurk away.
by Seraphim
is attacking Kise for not giving his opinion. Behaviour I don't expect from scum towards a scumpartner.Nachomamma wrote:However, it would be beneficial for a mafioso member to yank his scummember our of lurking mode BEFORE he falls under suspicion, now wouldn't it?
Nachomamma questions my statement that scum won't behave that way, I expand further.MichelSableheart wrote:Probably, yes. But that will mean a "I'm hoping to hear more from ..." will be posted. The scumpartner should become more active to avoid suspicion. However, explicitly asking for opinions ruins an important part of the strategy. One of the main reasons lurking is good for scum is that they can avoid giving their opinions.
And suddenly, Nachomamma is talking about a completely different post. #43Nachomamma wrote:Hmm... If we're talking about the same post, this was at the point where Seraphim was disappearing completely and Kise requested a Seraphim prod. I don't find it completely disbelievable that scum would question a partner that seemed to be disappearing...
by Kise
, which is a simple prod request on Seraphim. No, we're not talking about the same post here.---------------------------------------
As I said before, I am not thinking in terms of individual scumtells here. I am looking at interactions to determine scumpairings.Nachomamma wrote:The only thing scummier than a strong connection to scum is no connection to anyone.
As for the individual tell: He didn't mention suspicion on anyone during a period of time when the main topic of discussion was whether or not we should no lynch. Big deal.
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The main problem I have with your interaction with both Kise and Dragonfly, is that you don't mention them at all, but then they suddenly become your top suspects
without any reasons given
. Your behaviour towards fhq, groinhammer, Starbuck or OGML is completely irrelevant to that argument, because they never became your top suspects.
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He gave his opinions, and he gave his reasoning for those opinions. I cannot agree with your statement that he didn't try at all.Nachomamma wrote:I told him I wouldn't unvote until he made a case, did I not? He didn't make a case. He didn't even try; even though my vote put him in quickhammer range. I can guarantee you a townie would make a case for themselves or against someone else in order to get a vote DURING LyLo off them, no matter what. It was uncaring because he didn't try in the least bit, he didn't fight back, and he barely defended himself.
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Dragonfly wasn't around before saberwolf was banned. When Dragonfly checked in, I had stated that I was reading the thread from the beginning, and hadn't finished reading yet. What guarantee did Dramonic have that I knew he was at L-2?Nachomamma wrote:It was clear that the other three players weren't going to quickhammer as soon as dragonfly checked in, so that is complete and total nonsense.
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So let's see if I understood you correctly. Your top suspect in ISO #36 was Saberwolf. You were pushing for his lynch during the end of day 2 and most of day 3. The other players in your top 3 were Dragonfly and Taranski. Dragonly was on there because Saberwolf was suspicious of him?! So out of all people you could follow, you decided to follow the opinions of the player you believed was scum?!
There is no 'a' in Michel.
- Nachomamma8
- Nachomamma8
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Nachomamma8
- Devil in the Details
- Devil in the Details
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Can we get a prod on everyone? Last time I checked, this mafia game had more than two people playing.
You checked in and said that you read 10 pages. As scum, I'm sure that means you've checked your quicktopic first, just to say you were there.Dragonfly wasn't around before saberwolf was banned. When Dragonfly checked in, I had stated that I was reading the thread from the beginning, and hadn't finished reading yet. What guarantee did Dramonic have that I knew he was at L-2?
Any halfway competant scumpartner would've posted that it's game-winning time in the quicktopic, and told you that dramonic was at L-2 and asking you a time convinient for you to set up a quicklynch.
Hmm... I was just pointing out that someone commented on Dragonfly. The person I actually listened to was named after a predominant coffee shop chain.So let's see if I understood you correctly. Your top suspect in ISO #36 was Saberwolf. You were pushing for his lynch during the end of day 2 and most of day 3. The other players in your top 3 were Dragonfly and Taranski. Dragonly was on there because Saberwolf was suspicious of him?! So out of all people you could follow, you decided to follow the opinions of the player you believed was scum?!
Anyways, I ignored everything else because I'm looking to stop the quote walls. Give me a second before you vote and Dragonfly hammers.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.
eh, im starting to have that big post = town mentality. Even tho i know how it may cause me to be led astray but w/e. So I am inclined to think Sable is town and that nacho is the play.
Nacho, you were trying to deflect the lynch to dragonfly. Why? Do you think he is scum? What about Sable, what is your read on him?
Nacho, you were trying to deflect the lynch to dragonfly. Why? Do you think he is scum? What about Sable, what is your read on him?