Mini 1353 - Dr. Who Mafia - The End of Time (Game Over)

[GreyICE]

His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion.

Full meta on me, now.

Acosmist

The triangle needs to die.

Agree/disagree?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 3.2 - As of post 701

Acosmist (3) - CryMeARiver, T-Bone, triangle123
Starbuck (1) - Greenknight
T-Bone (1) - Acosmist
triangle123 (1) - GreyICE

Not Voting (2) - Starbuck, Zang

The Current deadline is August 6, 2012 at 4:00pm EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-08-06 16:00:00).

With 8 active votes - 5 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - All currently good.

[greenknight]

vote: Starbuck for now I don't want the day to end yet but grey, exactly why is acos town?

Are you unvoting just because GreyICE said he was town?

No I'm unvoting because I don't want a quicklynch, and also I wanted to know why Greyice suddenly had a town read on him, because he is all over the place at the moment. I seem to remember tierce non-interaction with Acosmist yesterday being an associative scum tell according to grey and now it's a town tell so I'm not sure what the deal with here. The case against acomist for me is that he was just sniping on day 1 to appear active without actually engaging in discussion with arguments concerning his main suspects. Ok, you could say that Jason didn't do much either, but Jason had a lot more reason to be pissed because he was actually getting wagoned off Tierce's BS fencesitting argument. Acos gets attacked by t-bone, posts a wall of insults to counterattack, and when no one is buying it makes just 1 followup post regarding him to votepark. So it doesn't look like he is making a serious effort to convince anyone that his target is scum, neither is it claimed as a reaction test. I therefore read it more as an attempt to look town by faking an angry reaction, as Tierce did with the triangle meta thing later.

BTW does anyone know if scum daytalk is standard in MoI games?

[GreyICE]

I said that? Because I don't think I ever said that.

I said Triangle jumping in and defending Tierce and saying she wouldn't intentionally lurk as scum and then labeling her null and jason town and then voting jason anyway is worthy of death.

And I said Starbuck needs to die.

And I said Iecerint should go the way of the Dodo.

These are all true things.

[Starbuck]

Grey, your reads and have been shifting throughout the day. On me, for example - Starbuck needs to die, Starbuck is so town, Starbuck must be lynched with fire, Starbuck may be town.

You haven't been able to settle on a suspect since the start of the game.

[GreyICE]

Grey, your reads and have been shifting throughout the day. On me, for example - Starbuck needs to die, Starbuck is so town, Starbuck must be lynched with fire, Starbuck may be town.

You haven't been able to settle on a suspect since the start of the game.

I settled on two. Tierce and Iecerint.

Opinions on Triangle now, Starbuck, with a little diary of what you think of that Tierce interaction.

[Starbuck]

Without going back through the ISO, I don't like Triangle's interaction with Tierce at all, especially during Tierce's major overreaction. I was right in the fact that Tierce inadvertently let us all know her scum tell. Triangle, instead of getting defensive for her own self, was defending Tierce. That was the oddest thing to see, like she was trying to chill her scum partner out.

I can give a better view on that after going through her ISO.

[triangle123]

Soft defense of Tierce?

I've already explained that quote. What happened goes beyond the game. Tierce thought I was referencing an on-going game that we were both in, which would have qualified as a violation of site rules. Naturally, I rushed to clarify what I really meant, and the misconception was cleared up.

Then says Tierce is null, Jason is townie, votes Jason anyway?

I also explained this. Tierce claimed a power role so I saw no rush to lynch her Day 1. I'd have rather lost a VT who barely contributed than a possible power role. And furthermore, if I was scum and knew for certain Jason was going to flip town, would I really admit he's a town read, call Tierce a null read, and then vote for his lynch?

[Acosmist]

His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion.

Full meta on me, now.

Acosmist

The triangle needs to die.

Agree/disagree?

Yeah let me check this out right now, will offer an opinion when my thoughts are collected.

[Acosmist]

And furthermore, if I was scum and knew for certain Jason was going to flip town, would I really admit he's a town read, call Tierce a null read, and then vote for his lynch?

Why put this in? Why not leave your reply as it is, and say you were misinterpreted? Why "Oh and even if that happened..."?

Why is this apparent counterfactual even in your mind?

GreyICE, Starbuck opinion plz

[Acosmist]

His poor Day 1 play however is an indication of his alignment in my opinion.

Full meta on me, now.

Acosmist

The triangle needs to die.

Agree/disagree?

Yeah let me check this out right now, will offer an opinion when my thoughts are collected.

btw this is me lying. I need an answer to that question first. LYNCH ALL LIARS LOL no don't.

[triangle123]

Why put this in? Why not leave your reply as it is, and say you were misinterpreted? Why "Oh and even if that happened..."?

Why is this apparent counterfactual even in your mind?

What? I wasn't misinterpreted there. I was misinterpreted about the "Tierce defense". It's true that I had a null read on Tierce and a town read on Jason. I explained my reasoning for choosing to vote my town read. And then I added that his attack doesn't make sense because it wasn't even something scum would do. There's no counterfactual here.

[MagnaofIllusion]

CryMeARiver has been prodded.

I will be LA as is the norm over the weekend for my usual family duties. Prods, vote-counts and other required Mod Actions will still occur but response time to PMs might be slower than normal.

I will post a vote-count later today around 4pm.

[GreyICE]

And furthermore, if I was scum and knew for certain Jason was going to flip town, would I really admit he's a town read, call Tierce a null read, and then vote for his lynch?

Why put this in? Why not leave your reply as it is, and say you were misinterpreted? Why "Oh and even if that happened..."?

Why is this apparent counterfactual even in your mind?

GreyICE, Starbuck opinion plz

You called him town several times (172, 282), you couldn't 180 and call him scum, but when the wire came down with wagons tied you wanted your "town read" dead over actual scum - who you called null, yet spent more time defending than your so-called town read.


And do you really think her last minute attacks on you give you town cred?

Okay Triangle is scum.

Let's lynch.

(although I admit Acosmist could sell me on his own wagon at this pace)

[T-Bone]

Sure Grey, let's talk Triangle. I did have a problem with his GK vote early on, when GK made an explanation of whatever he was doing that I felt was obvious town. A lot of Triangle's Day 1 interactions were almost exclusively with GK. Oh and he made sure to keep the possability of my wagon alive every other post by hinting "by the way, I'll lynch T-Bone if the rest of you do". I find that scummy, because if you have a scumread on someone, you try to convince everyone else of it regardless of what everyone else is doing. His arguments with GK left a bad taste in my mouth. Arguing with someone you think is scum isn't productive because you're not gonna convince them their scum. However it does appear as 'content' which is why players do it. That's generally my philosophy towards arguing, and I try to avoid doing it as much as possible.

Some interactions of Triangle to note. Plenty of discussion almost exclusively with GK early in the day. He does eventually start to pepper in me, Kortul, and Starbuck. He also hand waves Acosmist as town when Acosmist had finally elaborated on some of his reads, but for the most part they don't mention each other, till Day 3 when Triangle agrees that he's scummy.

Besides the stuff about him I find scummy. Triangle also has made genuine attempts at scumhunting. In the posts he isn't arguing with GK, he's asking intelligent questions and looking at possible relationships between players. The only thing I find him lacking in is following up to some of the questioning he's down, and the complete breakdown of his play the moment he starts getting called scum. Anyone can ask questions to be "productive". And this is from my perspective, if Acomist is scum (with him), why didn't he move to Starbuck the moment it started getting steam? We did get Acomist to L-1.

My bottom line, I see plenty of scummy things, and a few townie things that makes me hesitant to call him scum. I definitely feel stronger about Acomist, because at least Triangle (if he is scum) gives the illusion of scumhunting and being helpful, something Acomist isn't doing.

You were asking about Triangle buddies, I'm not sure Acomist and Triangle can be scum together.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Vote Count 3.3 - As of post 715

Acosmist (3) - CryMeARiver, T-Bone, triangle123
Starbuck (1) - Greenknight
T-Bone (1) - Acosmist
triangle123 (1) - GreyICE

Not Voting (2) - Starbuck, Zang

The Current deadline is August 6, 2012 at 4:00pm EDT. Countdown is (expired on 2012-08-06 16:00:00).

With 8 active votes - 5 are required to lynch.

Activity Check - CMAR previously prodded.

Mod Notes - As noted Mod is LA for weekend family duties.

[CryMeARiver]

CMAR prod received.

Packing for college, but have been following the game.

Unvote[\b]

Unvote based on those voting with me...I find that a little suspicious.

[T-Bone]

Me or Triangle? Because those are the only two players voting with you. (Though GK did earlier in the day)

[CryMeARiver]

Me or Triangle? Because those are the only two players voting with you. (Though GK did earlier in the day)

Either of you really.

I've found myself agreeing with you far too much this game which has kind of scared me but not made me think you're town for some odd reason. Triangle has shown poor play, as Grey has pointed out, however based on Tierce I have found her to be reluctantly town.

While I dislike Acomist, especially yesterday, I find myself in bad company which signifies something is wrong.

I'll be back Sunday night.

EBwop:

Unvote

[CryMeARiver]

Me or Triangle? Because those are the only two players voting with you. (Though GK did earlier in the day)

Either of you really.

I've found myself agreeing with you far too much this game which has kind of scared me but not made me think you're town for some odd reason. Triangle has shown poor play, as Grey has pointed out, however based on Tierce I have found her to be reluctantly town.

While I dislike Acomist, especially yesterday, I find myself in bad company which signifies something is wrong.

I'll be back Sunday night.

EBwop:

Unvote

[Acosmist]

Why put this in? Why not leave your reply as it is, and say you were misinterpreted? Why "Oh and even if that happened..."?

Why is this apparent counterfactual even in your mind?

What? I wasn't misinterpreted there. I was misinterpreted about the "Tierce defense". It's true that I had a null read on Tierce and a town read on Jason. I explained my reasoning for choosing to vote my town read. And then I added that his attack doesn't make sense because it wasn't even something scum would do. There's no counterfactual here.

Your being scum isn't a counterfactual in your mind?

[Zang]

Vote: Acosmist

I think he is scum. Throughout most of the game he has been lurking and I agree that his play during day 2 is bad. While I agree that he doesn't need much reasoning to vote the very obvious SK, there were other things that he could have commented on but completely ignored such as Starbuck's claim.

I also think that Starbuck might be scum. I can see how a commuter could mess up a hider but I don't understand why she would assume that both the scum and the hider targeted her as town, especially wihtout reading the thread. As scum though, I can see her panicking and coming up with a fakeclaim in order to explain why the hider died. However, I don't want to vote solely based on a claim.

Triangle actually bothered to do a role analysis of the serial killer's claim, complete with bells and whistles, to explain why he was voting for... someone a hider died from hiding behind. Hello trying to hard. Throw in the defense of Tierce (while exclaiming she was a null read, and backing up her 'softclaim power role' stuff) and my god why wouldn't you kill him?

Why would scum do this though? I think it is much more likely for town to do this. Triangle came in after he was already lynched and gave his opinion on his claim. If anything, I would call that pro-town. I think it would be much more likely for scum to just sit back and wait until night started. It was also only two sentences, I would hardely call that a "role analysis complete with bells and whistles".

I've found myself agreeing with you far too much this game which has kind of scared me but not made me think you're town for some odd reason. Triangle has shown poor play, as Grey has pointed out, however based on Tierce I have found her to be reluctantly town.

A person who you think is reluctantly town and somebody who agrees with you, I fail to see why this is bad company.

[Acosmist]

Yeah, why DID so much happen during twilight? That's, you know, the worst time to say anything.

[Acosmist]

And when you don't post for three days, can you say anyone else is lurking?

I mean, you can, but

[triangle123]

Your being scum isn't a counterfactual in your mind?

There's a difference between saying "if I was scum, I would have instead done such-and-such" and saying "this attack does not make sense because scum would not do that".

So Acos, who do you think is scum? For what reasons do you find T-Bone scummy that don't have to do with his attack on you?