Newbie 1378 - Game Over! (Town Wins)

[Lucky2u]

Pun intended?

[Lucky2u]

Emergency V/LA for the next 24 hours, father in hospital. I have my phone and will update if I need to be replaced.

[uctriton00]

hope everything works out for ya lucky

You call Triton out in post #509 as being Jason's scum buddy.
In post #518 Triton voted for Lucky.
Mattel soft-claims in post #520, Lucky pleads in #521, and Triton hammers in #522

Quick someone get Mastin to the BURN clinic.

Continue trying to manufacture more things in your head, mastin.

[mastin2]

Bit emotionally drained for the offense front at the moment, so I'll have to settle for defense until I've recovered.

VOTE: Mastin

He is getting as angry as Jason was before we lynched him

*ahem*

As for my attitude change, I'll admit that it has, and I do apologize for it--it is my emotions shining through. But those emotions are not rage.

As scum, I'm actually never calmer and more collected than when I'm alone

. (So if you see me going back to being calm,

then

you can try calling me scum. ) The emotions you see me displaying are

excitement

and

anticipation

. I'm having fun right now, more fun than I've had in ages, because I'm dueling a worthy adversary. Most of the times I fight against a player, I'm either vastly outclassed or vastly outclass who I'm fighting with. Here, I consider triton to be an opponent in skill equal to my own. And today's the critical day. You know why? Because...if I get triton lynched, we win. If triton gets me lynched, he can nightkill literally anyone, and get away with it, because he can talk his way out of being lynched, and induce paranoia in the surviving two about each other. If triton gets someone else lynched, he can nightkill me, and then he's in the identical situation.

Basically--today's the day that decides the fate of the game. If I can convince the rest of the town to lynch triton, we'll win. If I can't, if I fail, then we're near-guaranteed to lose. And that's a thrill-ride. I'm having an adrenaline rush. Which is why there's been a change in attitude, but I still feel as if I should apologize for it.

Am I emotional, yes. Am I angry, no. Stop saying that. The only thing to be angry about this game would be triton's blatant abuse of authority and having the audacity to say that *I* am the one abusing my authority.

---

Linxie part one--guess I misremembered the timeline for that. The exact point I was making may not hold, but the general point I was making (calling triton out) overall holds truth. Triton's reversal into hammering did not at all look like, "oh, I saw the cop!". It screamed "crap, that Lucky vote looks scummy-as-hell".

When not drained of energy, I'll elaborate if necessary. As for meta--yes, meta changes, but it does give you a background. For instance, a fact that I've avoided bringing up so far is the fact that I

hate

bussing, and took a vow not to bus. It is possible for me to break that vow, but it's definitely not something I'd do trivially. The repercussions of having broken the no-bussing vow are enough where I've developed a strong habit of not bussing.

Basically, a combination of two factors. (1) Though a player can change their meta, oftentimes, they don't

want

to. And (2) sometimes, they might actually know about a difference, but be unable to control it.

Look at things from a you-as-town perspective. You see both 'crumbing. You might be the only one who sees both have crumbed.

You, not knowing which is real, hammer. And get things wrong. The scum nightkill you. And bam. Both scum are alive, and if you were the only one who picked up on the 'crumbs, then you have no way of finishing the 1v1.

You-as-town would realize this, and not rely on ambiguities.

RE: Bold & Underlined
When you die, your alignment and role is shown, so am not sure what you mean here. Scum wouldn't be able to claim, so the crumbs would be useless.

I'm not sure what you're

not

getting. It's fairly clear what I was saying? Triton-as-town sees a 'crumb, and hammers recklessly, hoping to catch scum, but hammered wrongly. Triton-as-town gets nightkilled, with no other plays having seen the 'crumb. Triton-as-dead-town has no way of telling the town about the false-crumb, so the scum get away with it.

Triton-as-town would realize this, and not immediately hammer. Triton's claimed logic relies on (1) mattel being a liar, and (2) (this is a critical one) triton

surviving the night

to point out mattel's false-crumb and lynch mattel. Triton's death in this triton-as-town scenario, therefore, would ruin his whole "trust plan". I'm not sure how that can be more clear.

[uctriton00]

The only thing to be angry about this game would be triton's blatant abuse of authority and having the audacity to say that *I* am the one abusing my authority.

1. Define "abuse of authority"
2. Define how I said you abused your authority

[uctriton00]

I'm not sure what you're not getting. It's fairly clear what I was saying? Triton-as-town sees a 'crumb, and hammers recklessly, hoping to catch scum, but hammered wrongly. Triton-as-town gets nightkilled, with no other plays having seen the 'crumb. Triton-as-dead-town has no way of telling the town about the false-crumb, so the scum get away with it.

Triton-as-town would realize this, and not immediately hammer. Triton's claimed logic relies on (1) mattel being a liar, and (2) (this is a critical one) triton surviving the night to point out mattel's false-crumb and lynch mattel. Triton's death in this triton-as-town scenario, therefore, would ruin his whole "trust plan". I'm not sure how that can be more clear.

Your case against me is based on falseness and lies, which is why I can't help but continue to believe that you are the last scum and the game is wrapped up.

<i>Triton-as-town sees a 'crumb and hammers recklessly, hoping to catch scum</i> = i follow you so far...
<i>but hammered wrongly. </i> = so assuming mattel's claim was false? alright let's continue...
<i>Triton-as-town gets nightkilled</i> = why is this a guarantee in your scenario?
<i>, with no other plays having seen the 'crumb. Triton-as-dead-town has no way of telling the town about the false-crumb, so the scum get away with it.</i> = doesn't it make sense that if a townie just hammered another townie, that hammer-er would be left alive for the next day to be questioned/hung like a pinata, while the scum sit back and watch? Come now...

Let's do your next sentence

<i>Triton-as-town would realize this, and not immediately hammer.</i> = not true. I saw a mattel claim, and hammered, thinking there was nothing to lose in this 1v1 scenario. either mattel lied, or mattel told the truth.
<i>Triton's claimed logic relies on (1) mattel being a liar, </i> = if mattel was a liar, there was no way I'd let him live. and with the way lucky was talking in that post after mattel's claim, I would have gladly ran them both into a train.
<i>and (2) (this is a critical one) triton surviving the night to point out mattel's false-crumb and lynch mattel. </i> = as said, there should be no reason I would have been killed at night. I'd be a perfect setup pinata for the next day. My defense that day would be pointing out the fake cop claim by mattel.
<i>Triton's death in this triton-as-town scenario, therefore, would ruin his whole "trust plan". I'm not sure how that can be more clear.</i> = this is false, because you're assuming that there's a 100% i'd die. No way.

[uctriton00]

guess I misremembered the timeline for that. The exact point I was making may not hold, but the general point I was making (calling triton out) overall holds truth. Triton's reversal into hammering did not at all look like, "oh, I saw the cop!". It screamed "crap, that Lucky vote looks scummy-as-hell".

It was exactly "oh, I saw the cop!".

And based on your attempts to poke holes in my logic/gameplay, it's only fitting for me to when you admit that you were wrong and you are taking back a point you were trying to make.

[Lucky2u]

Cancel that V/LA, Everything good and I am back.

[uctriton00]

Good to hear

Still waiting on Linnie or enormous to make a decision

Edit Lol autocorrect

[Lucky2u]

Linnie and Enormous... Good enough for me

@Linnie so you said your leaning our way (the right way) are you still waiting for something to push you over the edge? Mastin hasn't really changed his arguments, we are getting nowhere new, it is the time for action! I am relying on you Linnie because Enormous is off in the corner having gone crazy.

[uctriton00]

Mastin even made a hole in his story against me he admitted to

[Linxie]

I'm not sure what you're

not

getting. It's fairly clear what I was saying? Triton-as-town sees a 'crumb, and hammers recklessly, hoping to catch scum, but hammered wrongly. Triton-as-town gets nightkilled, with no other plays having seen the 'crumb. Triton-as-dead-town has no way of telling the town about the false-crumb, so the scum get away with it.

Triton-as-town would realize this, and not immediately hammer. Triton's claimed logic relies on (1) mattel being a liar, and (2) (this is a critical one) triton

surviving the night

to point out mattel's false-crumb and lynch mattel. Triton's death in this triton-as-town scenario, therefore, would ruin his whole "trust plan". I'm not sure how that can be more clear.

I understand what you're saying but remember that A) Triton wasn't the only one to pick up on the Mattel crumb and B) you're focusing on a scenario which doesn't apply. Mattel was town and Jason was scum. The flip revealed that... also I'm pretty sure that had Jason flipped town and Triton died instead of Mattel, Mattel would have had major pressure from you since you picked up on Mattel's crumb as well.

[uctriton00]

B) you're focusing on a scenario which doesn't apply.

*applauds*

[Linxie]

Stating my intentions to hammer (if anyone has anything to add, I'm giving you a chance to speak up now before I hammer)

[enomis]

Fk no. Wait until I get back home tonite to post. I dont know why u all are blatantly ignoring lucky. And lucky is ignoring my point.

[Linxie]

Fk no. Wait until I get back home tonite to post. I dont know why u all are blatantly ignoring lucky. And lucky is ignoring my point.

I'll wait to hear you out.

[Lucky2u]

I want to hear this. I expect a wall of reasons as to why I am scum, anything less than a full screen of text and I will be disappointed Enormous.

[uctriton00]

take the stage, enomis

[mastin2]

I understand what you're saying but remember that A) Triton wasn't the only one to pick up on the Mattel crumb and B) you're focusing on a scenario which doesn't apply. Mattel was town and Jason was scum. The flip revealed that... also I'm pretty sure that had Jason flipped town and Triton died instead of Mattel, Mattel would have had major pressure from you since you picked up on Mattel's crumb as well.

Linxie, you're applying future knowledge to the past.

Go back to that time period. Ignore the flip we had later. Think of that time.

triton wouldn't know anybody else had picked up on the crumbs

. (Almost) everyone said they picked them up on day three, but NOBODY had made it clear they saw the crumbs on day two.

A triton-as-town at the time would have had no way of knowing he was not the only one to have seen them

. That is something which was ONLY clear come day three.

And this is the more critical par you're missing.

Triton-as-town WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN that mattel was town and Jason was scum

. The ONLY way triton would have known mattel was town and known Jason was scum is if he were scum with Jason. This is exactly what I've been arguing. Yes, as it turned out, mattel was town and Jason was scum. So yes, I'm arguing about a scenario which ended up not applying. But go back to the time--A TOWN TRITON HAD NO WAY OF KNOWING IT WOULDN'T HAVE APPLIED. That is something

only

possible from a scum-triton.

[mastin2]

This is why context is important, by the way. In the current context, we know that mattel's town, and we know Jason's scum, and we know that almost everyone picked up a 'crumb from mattel.

But go back to the context at the critical time we're talking about. None of that knowledge exists to a town player. To a scum player, yes, they know mattel's town. Yes, they know Jason's scum. But a town player wouldn't.

[uctriton00]

Triton-as-town WOULD NOT HAVE KNOWN that mattel was town and Jason was scum.

I don't get why is this is a scum tell for you mastin.

1. I see a mattel claim
2. I hammer like bob the builder
3. If I'm wrong and I hammered town, then I go after mattel.
- yes I can bank that I would live throughout the night because if i hammered town, i expect to be put on display and blast like a pinata on day 3.
4. If I'm right and I hammer scum, then scum either kill me (IDGAF i'd be a hero, and our PR would still be alive) or kill our cop (which would be unfortunate, but at least we got 1 scum down).

You're manufacturing a fake case, mastin.

[uctriton00]

I'm a townie, with the most powerful weapon on my side: honesty. By the fact you're continually trying to discredit and put falsehoods in it, can't help but scream you're scum trying to take me down as a threat to you. Add that into my case against you (your quick vote against me today, your voting pattern, my voting pattern, and your posturing), and it just builds and builds.

[uctriton00]

*Jason's voting pattern, not my voting pattern

[enomis]

Sorry guys. Ytd was too tired to post. I will definitely find time to post tonite. Anyway, I have been ignoring mastin v ucrit becuz I wanted to get a good read on lucky first. And lucky,dont you get my argument? At the start of day 3, you said that nobody including you can be discounted from being scum. Yet, in the recent posts, you say that you are very unlikely to be scum since Jason would be bussing you whole day and this does not make sense. Therefore, you first statement would just be a statement tgat does not reflect your true thought and you are just saying the firat statement out of convenience to earn town credit. Anybody here can see thia point? Also, I will eeread the interaction on day 2 seeing if the timing of them knowing the breaadcrumb makes sense.

[Lucky2u]

I understand your argument Enormous, but that statement that anyone could be town "even me" is being read in to too much. The "even me" part was suppose to be the highly unlikely of the possibilities. For example at the beginning of the nfl season they might say "this could be anyone's year! Even the Miami Dolphins!" They don't stand a chance but it's fun saying that it's possible. Is it possible that I am scum? Sure. Everything I've said and done could be a highly intricate ruse designed to sheep ucrit and draw attention away from me. The only way to be %100 sure of anyone's alignment (in this setup) is to be the cop. Unfortunately he is dead and said nothing about me or anyone else that is alive today. So with that in mind we have to make our decisions by what is most likely...

Is it more likely that Jason and Me came up with a strategy to bus him and make me immune to suspicion in the following days? Let's think about this. It CANNOT be said that the strategy was to bus ME and JASON to be here today. Why? Simple, I caused his death. Once Jason was at L-1 there was NO reason for me to continue a push or BEG ucrit to hammer. If the plan was for me to die, all I had to do was get him to L-1 and shut up and let myself die or do anything that would incriminate myself further, NOT continue to push Jason. SO, clearly the hypothetical scenario was that I was bussing Jason. The biggest problem with this was that it was a miracle that Jason did get lynched. Mattel as the cop investigating Jason was not something we could have known or expected him to support me, would ucrit and mastin (who in this scenario has to be town) have switched sides without mattel's support? A scum team of me and Jason could not have foreseen a Jason lynch even being possible.

Here are the other more likely scenarios:
Mastin picks up on mattel's crumbs or just realizes that Jason is going to be lynched and he switches to look better.
Ucrit, with everyone saying that I should be hammered can wash his hands of responsibility by hammering me but misses his chance when Linnie unvotes me, so switches to a bus Jason strat when tides turn.
Linnie votes me with Jason and Mastin so that he and Jason can blame Mastin in the resulting LYLO.
Enormous the sneakiest scum on the field makes no decision thus he can't be blamed for anything and intended to let the others lynch me, it doesn't happen so today he is voting me so that when we incorrectly vote mastin he can kill ucrit and Linnie will drink the kool-aid and vote me.

All of these are possibilities are they not? Which are more likely? What are other scenarios? We aren't LYLO, so your strategies have to be two days long as a townie. I CANNOT elaborate on this more without tipping my hand to the scum. But you better believe I am ready for every scenario for a hypothetical day 4. WITHOUT SAYING IT, think about the scenarios where you are wrong about me and it is one of the other three, how do they look in day 4?