Mini 543 - Election Day - Game Over!


Forum rules
User avatar
Mgm
Mgm
Mafia Scum
User avatar
User avatar
Mgm
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1964
Joined: May 2, 2004
Location: Dordrecht, Netherlands
Contact:

Post Post #700 (ISO) » Mon May 19, 2008 5:50 pm

Post by Mgm »

BAH!
Show
"Logic is a systematic method to come to the wrong conclusion."
[u][b]Next:[/b] Doctor Who Mafia[/u]
[u]Testimonials about Mgm:[/u]
:shock: - Stoofer
You put me through hell Mgm, my nerves are crushed :/ - Patrick
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #701 (ISO) » Mon May 19, 2008 11:00 pm

Post by The Fonz »

Heh! My first ever endgame.

Not being funny, but it's
incredibly
obvious the last scum isn't me. Think about it.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #702 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 2:16 am

Post by farside22 »

The Fonz wrote:Heh! My first ever endgame.

Not being funny, but it's
incredibly
obvious the last scum isn't me. Think about it.
I still don't think it is you fonz, but I do question you attack on me and lack of comments the last few RL days before the election. I really felt Elias was town and that Skruffs is the last scum. His Fonz is trying to out his partner thing to me sounds like Skruffs knew qman would come up as scum. I will try and go back and find the quote some time in the next few days.
Fonz I would appreciate your thought on Skruff and I.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #703 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 2:32 am

Post by The Fonz »

Well, I still think your actions have been rather dodgy. Your arguments yesterday seemed a little opportunistic. Of course, they seemed opportunistic in terms of the arguments you were using to go after Qman, which of course doesn't look scummy anymore.

The reason I say I'm obvtown is:

It was fairly obvious Mgm was going to vote you on my say-so if I kept pushing that line. Therefore, all it would have required for me and Qman to WIN THE GAME if that was the scumgroup was for me to stick to my guns. farside lynch, game over. There is no conceivable motive for Fonzscum to vote his partner there.

The same can't be said for farsidescum (because the alternative wagon was your own). It applies to skruffs in a slightly lesser fashion (bussing there is unnecessary but not detrimental if both Mgm and I vote farside, hurts that scumpair if only one of the two of us votes farside [since they could have won by going all-in] and helps if Mgm and I both vote Qman, since voting with Qman there is a dead giveaway). It's probably not the best play, but I can see it making some sense for scum of a cautious disposition.

That particular part would make me more willing to believe Skruffs is town. OTOH, the general gist I've gotten of each of your play is probably less scummy than his. Hmmm... we'll see.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #704 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 11:32 am

Post by Skruffs »

Um not to be contrary but both you and MGM were talking abou voting Farside yesterday. You expressed doubts at the end of the day, so you left your options open, but I was talking about farside's innocence from my first read through. If I remember correctly, farside was asking everyone who they would vote, and you were the only one who 'changed his mind' shortly before the deadline: MGM stayed the course on farside and you didn't. If I was scum I would absolutely have attempted to vote farside to win the game; the chances of at least one of you doing so were almost 100%.


If I remember correctly, you were voting farside until the very end of hte day: You said you had to do your pairs analysis first, (That close to deadline? Why wait?) and then didn't do anything. I think you were keeping your options open.

Farside: can you point to a game with you as scum in it?
The Fonz: you were scum in big love with me and you were very active until the end of the game where you basically stopped playing. Is there another game with you in it as scum?
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #705 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 12:15 pm

Post by farside22 »

I was scum in Nightmare Mafia (Mini 540) I know I was scum in other games, but this was the most recent and just ended. Fun game to read. That game the fonz was town which is why I find his play in this game very different then that one. He was more vocal in some respects then this game. That is the only reason I have my doubts is because of the way he is playing.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #706 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 12:32 pm

Post by Skruffs »

In that game, what did you base your nightkill decisions on? Did you tend to kill people who seemed to think you were town or people who seemed to think you were scum?
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #707 (ISO) » Tue May 20, 2008 12:52 pm

Post by farside22 »

Skruffs wrote:In that game, what did you base your nightkill decisions on? Did you tend to kill people who seemed to think you were town or people who seemed to think you were scum?
One kill was because Opie's character could stop my ability. Fonz was targeted by Glork. I wanted roffman in that game because he was confirmed. Basically Rishi and roffman were very town in that game and needed to die. Usually I will go as scum for the most townish person. I still don't know how I (scum) won that game after everything was said and done.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #708 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 3:06 am

Post by The Fonz »

Skruffs wrote:Um not to be contrary but both you and MGM were talking abou voting Farside yesterday. You expressed doubts at the end of the day, so you left your options open, but I was talking about farside's innocence from my first read through.
You're missing the point. If I'm scum here, I've talked Mgm into voting farside, yes? He has stated that he has enough trust in me to vote farside on my say-so. Therefore, all I have to do to win the game is continue with the farside attacking. However, what I ACTUALLY did was to have last minute reservations, scold Mgm for suggesting he was willing to vote on my say-so, and end up (I must say, after much agonising) voting for Qman. That doesn't make any sense. It would basically mean I directly chose to not win the game when presented with the opportunity.
If I remember correctly, farside was asking everyone who they would vote, and you were the only one who 'changed his mind' shortly before the deadline: MGM stayed the course on farside and you didn't.
Yes. In a position where, if I'm scum, sticking to farside WINS the game. Don't you see how it makes absolutely zero sense for me to change my vote there if I'm scum?
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #709 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 3:28 am

Post by Skruffs »

You expressing doubts about MGM, and scolding him, fits in perfectly though with exactly what you are talking about. If you didn't really trust MGM at the end of the day to vote farside, then you would be better off hedging your bets by changing your vote to QMan anyways. I think you balked in the self-confidence department and played the easy route. You knew that both I and farside would be voting Qman, and wasn't sure if MGM would or not. So you hopped onto QMan too, thinking you would still be able to recover by, well, doing exactly what you are doing today.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #710 (ISO) » Wed May 21, 2008 3:44 am

Post by Skruffs »

In a way, it makes sense why you would have killed MGM too... MGM may have had questions about why you turned around,a nd killing him makes it look like me or farside is the scum... so you get a double bonus

Shame on you, Fonz.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #711 (ISO) » Thu May 22, 2008 6:59 am

Post by farside22 »

I looked into votes and qman since hascow didn't really do much with anyone but me or holy while he was alive. These were a few reason's that came to my mind on why Elias/fonz town and Skruff's scum
First the vote:
hasdgfas - 6 (Rigel, opie, farside22, Elias_the_thief, Qman, Akonas)
Rigel - 2 (Shanba, Gorgon)
Akonas - 2 (hasdgfas, Holy)
opie - 1 (QuickBen)

When I asked Gorgon why he voted on Rigel it was a pretty poor excuse. Now not to say scum won't out there partner. (qman voted against cow) so it's possible both scum voted against their partner however I didn't see the votes as clear and I don't think it was clear who was going to be voted against day one.
When qman did his first analysis. He says nothing about Gorgon and only says this about Elias.
Elias_the_thief (replaces Boggzie) :
No real read. Boggzie seemed a little jumpy but... Nothign to really go on. Maybe a very slight scum dip, overall
Neutral
Here was the second analysis
Elias - A close run between Elias and Gorgon for "middle of the middle" This also relates to you, as elias was hammering at you and knowing your alignment would affect my thoughts on him.
Gorgon - See above, really no major difference between the two, some small things but... *shrug*

This is the final one:
The Fonz - Was elias at the time, and didn't read as a power role, but I wasn't sure I was toying with the idea he might be the pol. I'm pretty sure Fonz is a vanilla, versus power, townie after last day and nights cycle, plus early today.
Skruffs - Gorgon was worthless and didn't comment, he also was just unclear early in the day and skruffs seemed to be ducking saying anything at the end of the day. Scummy vibes. I discounted him as the poll.
Qman kept going back and forth on Elias scum/ town. But didn't really say much out Gorgon/Skruff till the end. I think it was done on purpose in case he was ever come up and lynched. I think him ignoring Gorgon/Skruffs was an interesting note. But his back and forth between Elias town and Elias scum has me scratching my head.
I think though I keep going back to Gorgon vote when hascow was lynch. I need to look at the rules to verify one thing which was this:
* NOTE: Even though the thread is locked during Election Day, it is not a night phase. Mafia may not communicate.
So I know the scum didn't communicate there votes. I don't think with how day 1 was looking hascow was a for sure lynch and with that in mind and Gorgon's "reason" for voting Rigel I believe Skruff/Gorgon to be scum
My vote for election:
Skruffs
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #712 (ISO) » Fri May 23, 2008 11:45 am

Post by Skruffs »

Well, my vote is going to be on Fonz, farside, because I still think you are town, if only because you don't seem to have any idea what's going on (No offense meant). So I guess if I am right, and it is Fonz, he wins, because obviously he'll vote me too with you. If you are scum, and I doubt you are because it's set up too nicely for you to be scum to really make me think you *are* scum, then you win, too.

I am not sure if Fonz wants to include anything else or not. I think it's kind of sad that you are basing your vote on me because of hte actions of known scums and NOT on my own or Fonz's play directly. Scum are always trying to mislead down. I, as scum, when I thought I was in trouble have intentionally ignored town players in my posts and attacked or defended my buddies. Why? Because it leads to WIFOM. Hate, Love, or Ignore, those are the options scum have to try to misdirect town. You should really be looking at what Fonz has done in thie game and how he has interpretted all the other players, not what cow or QMan did.
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #713 (ISO) » Fri May 23, 2008 11:39 pm

Post by The Fonz »

No time for a long post, except to say this is somewhat annoying, since I'm leaning to farside as the last scum, and if all three of us go in to the last day announcing an intention to vote different players, scum will flip and town will not, so it's an auto scum win.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #714 (ISO) » Sat May 24, 2008 3:48 am

Post by farside22 »

Skruffs wrote:Well, my vote is going to be on Fonz, farside, because I still think you are town, if only because you don't seem to have any idea what's going on (No offense meant). So I guess if I am right, and it is Fonz, he wins, because obviously he'll vote me too with you. If you are scum, and I doubt you are because it's set up too nicely for you to be scum to really make me think you *are* scum, then you win, too.

I am not sure if Fonz wants to include anything else or not. I think it's kind of sad that you are basing your vote on me because of hte actions of known scums and NOT on my own or Fonz's play directly. Scum are always trying to mislead down. I, as scum, when I thought I was in trouble have intentionally ignored town players in my posts and attacked or defended my buddies. Why? Because it leads to WIFOM. Hate, Love, or Ignore, those are the options scum have to try to misdirect town. You should really be looking at what Fonz has done in thie game and how he has interpretted all the other players, not what cow or QMan did.
I'm still thinking about things. Fonz play is not the town fonz I have seen. His play since he started has bugged me. Frankly he has yet to put a case against me or stated anything scum hunting wise. My vote isn't definite.
How about this.
Will both of you please post a case against the person you feel is scum and why. Also include why you think the other person is town. Frankly you both have done something that has wrung my scum radar so I need this to really see who is town and scum. Thank you.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Rishi
Rishi
A Meer townie
User avatar
User avatar
Rishi
A Meer townie
A Meer townie
Posts: 3055
Joined: June 17, 2007
Location: Arlington, VA
Contact:

Post Post #715 (ISO) » Tue May 27, 2008 3:33 am

Post by Rishi »

Just checking in so you know I'm still alive. No immunity votes. No one needs a prod. Election Day is still June 19.
Taking a break from MS. Please send e-mail if you want to get in touch with me.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #716 (ISO) » Tue May 27, 2008 5:22 am

Post by farside22 »

I'm just waiting on the other two to do as I asked. It would be helpful
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #717 (ISO) » Tue May 27, 2008 5:32 am

Post by Skruffs »

Okay. I feel that you are town because of your behavior earlier on in the game. I think I've already expressed it in earlier posts as to why, but basically I use a very loose meta system that people who are loud, and wrong, are usually town. You have been wrong abou a lot of things, which suggests that you came into the game with no information.

The Fonz, similarly, seems to know a lot about the game and scum and all that. To the point that MGM trusted his vote in following The Fonz. Killing MGM as scum after his partner was killed would be a very risky move for him to do, which might be exactly why he does it. I've seen The Fonz in other games and he has no compunctions against doing stuff that is incredibly risky, gambitting, stuff like that. It's only when he's pinned to the wall and caught that he gives up, and that's when he usually stops talking.

If The Fonz had killed me, instead of MGM, you would be more suspicious of The Fonz, automatically, right? Similarly, MGM would have doubts as to why he was left aliive, which would make him reconsider his ties with The Fonz. Killing MGM leaves The Fonz with a two pronged defense that he can use today, and he's already used both of those prongs.

I think that he is scum based on his 'knowledge' of the game, and the way that he bussed QMan towards the end of the day while still trying to put suspicion on you, farside, so that when QMan came up scum he could try and convince me to vote you the next day.
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #718 (ISO) » Tue May 27, 2008 9:21 am

Post by The Fonz »

*Sighs*

Big post within 24hrs.

Also, Skruffs, your case on me here is actually worse than BM's on you in Food Fight.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #719 (ISO) » Tue May 27, 2008 1:00 pm

Post by farside22 »

@Skruffs: Why would fonz want to end the game in a tie? Wouldn't he seeing my vote against you jump on the idea of voting against you as well instead?
@Fonz: Skruffs knows how you feel about me. Wouldn't he as scum also make a case against me to win the game?

Now these questions I ask are more about why I'm confused on who is town and who is the last scum.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
Skruffs
Skruffs
Pantsman
User avatar
User avatar
Skruffs
Pantsman
Pantsman
Posts: 6341
Joined: July 25, 2005
Location: Tower of Babel
Contact:

Post Post #720 (ISO) » Thu May 29, 2008 9:22 am

Post by Skruffs »

If Fonz were to suddenly jump on me and agree with you, wouldn't you be at least a LITTLE suspicious?
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #721 (ISO) » Thu May 29, 2008 10:03 am

Post by The Fonz »

Skruffs, again, no time for the full post i keep trying to get out, but...

The reason I think farside is the scum is because the whole 'at least one of Fonz and MGM would likely have voted farside' argument is a fairly good one. I don't see it as compelling in your case as mine (since I think me and Mgm both voting Qman was more likely before my change of heart than either of us voting him was afterward) but I think it's a significant point in your favour.

Also note that you're using Mgm *not* dying against me yesterday, and his death against me today. Basically, you're making out that I've done the counterintuitive thing for scum AT EVERY SINGLE JUNCTURE to look town (plus Elias' change of heart in favour of a hascow lynch to swing the vote against him).

You've also never explained what me appearing to *know stuff* means. (I almost feel like doing a Thok-style 'Knows too much argument! DIE DIE DIE!')
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #722 (ISO) » Thu May 29, 2008 12:02 pm

Post by farside22 »

Skruffs wrote:If Fonz were to suddenly jump on me and agree with you, wouldn't you be at least a LITTLE suspicious?
A little I agree. The comments he just made now make no sense to me. I'm confused about this comment:
I think farside is the scum is because the whole 'at least one of Fonz and MGM would likely have voted farside' argument is a fairly good one.


I don't get at all what this has to do with me as scum. MGM voted against me. He never had a reason for his vote and frankly at the end his vote against me was a shock. My issue with Fonz saying I'm scummy he has yet to show a case against me. Hence why I'm suspicious of Fonz. He didn't vote for me, but he stated he was suspicious and when asked why he had a vague answer. When I questioned him about it he changed his mind. I'm giving Fonz more time on this because Elias I felt was a great player, but what credit I gave to Elias, Fonz has lost due to his lack of comments.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
User avatar
The Fonz
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
User avatar
User avatar
The Fonz
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 9014
Joined: April 2, 2007
Location: UK

Post Post #723 (ISO) » Thu May 29, 2008 12:22 pm

Post by The Fonz »

farside22 wrote:
I think farside is the scum is because the whole 'at least one of Fonz and MGM would likely have voted farside' argument is a fairly good one.


I don't get at all what this has to do with me as scum.
It indicates that Skruffs is
not
the scum. Ergo, farside scum.

My issue with Fonz saying I'm scummy he has yet to show a case against me. Hence why I'm suspicious of Fonz. .
You keep saying this, and it keeps not being true. But if you want, to put your little mind at rest, I'm quite happy to go over all the points against you. Just not right now.
User avatar
farside22
farside22
Mafia Mum
User avatar
User avatar
farside22
Mafia Mum
Mafia Mum
Posts: 35785
Joined: October 24, 2007
Location: Buffalo, NY

Post Post #724 (ISO) » Fri May 30, 2008 10:59 am

Post by farside22 »

The Fonz wrote:
farside22 wrote:
I think farside is the scum is because the whole 'at least one of Fonz and MGM would likely have voted farside' argument is a fairly good one.


I don't get at all what this has to do with me as scum.
It indicates that Skruffs is
not
the scum. Ergo, farside scum.

My issue with Fonz saying I'm scummy he has yet to show a case against me. Hence why I'm suspicious of Fonz. .
You keep saying this, and it keeps not being true. But if you want, to put your little mind at rest, I'm quite happy to go over all the points against you. Just not right now.
Show me quotes where you stated a case against me then.
Sarcasm is just a way of saying how stupid you think someone is but in a more polite way.
Locked