Luca - His whole ISO sucks. Nothing in there is actually substanial at all. All of his reads come across as making stuff up on the fly (a lot of times when he is talking about a read, he gives himself room for said read to go either way). He's not really taking any risks and is in general playing really safe. I really want to see Luca go after something instead of just do nothing. Because a lot of what his ISO is nothing. And anything that like, remotely looks like analysis is really surface level stuff. 54 is just a gut scummy start mostly because I don't like the fact he has to feel like he has to have a stance first thing.
His shade in 85 is bad and comes across as scummy.
The Klick stance in 214 just sucks because the way he presents it, it really seems like it could go either way depending on what happens. 224 kind of just sucks. I'm not buying the "scum who is at a loss of what to do" narative at all because when I was reading that, I was generally liking that interaction with Billy. 318 is bad because its him just saying that Klick is town over and over again. The individual points aren't anything thats new. Also in the way its presented itself, I dislike this because he's just saying the samething over and over again. Like, he's trying to look like he's solving, but nothing in that post is actually adding anything new to the game. Its just non-stop praise and I don't like it.
Also apparently, accoriding to you, 325 contains content but it doesn't? Like, that can be faked. 488 is opportunistic. The narative being built here sucks. The vote is just scum.
Icon - I like Datisi so I don't like how Icon is pushing it. I hate how I'm immediately attacked in 593 while I'm catching up. I also kinda feel like Icon is definitely trying to control the game in a way I really don't like. Like, the threat in 618 kinda comes across as "how dare you question my authority." I state a scumread on Luca and that I'm not completely buying the Datisi wagon and I'm being attacked for it because its "not current" like????? Also, I'm really not buying how his confidence level goes from "maybe we're all town" to "I have this super confident read on Datisi. I'm using words to make it look like I WAS uncertain to make it look like I'm trying to solve, but I actually just had this really confident scumread the whole time hahahaha." Not to mention what the original fuss was over, is completely irrelevant. "Devoid of Life" and "Fake" who cares they both mean the samething. It seemed just really semantic to me.
OK. Now that I know what pings you about Luca, why do you think Icon is scum rather than town making a bad push?
P.S. I am extra careful with icon because we do tend to hard tunnel each other as town .. both of us. So beare with me on this one, please.
My Icon read is mostly based on the fact that while I was catching up, I felt like he was threatening me instead of trying to figure out my motivations in a less threatening way. If I didn’t feel like I was being threatened, then I would have probably just said that the read was PoE or just wait a day or 2 later where the read would
eventually
sort itself out.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:11 am
by Alisae
I do want to say that I could be overreacting and wrong with that and it could honestly just be a misunderstanding or I’m interpreting something wrong
But the in my face of “explain your stance on datisi’s wagon” when I was getting to it but wanted to investigate that more certainly wasn’t helping.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:29 am
by Almost50
I maybe crazy, but after having finished reading I think I TR Iconeum harder now, while -at the same town- still maintaining a TR on Datisi. (If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but having been in several fights with Iconeum in the past I know this could very well come from town!him, and I also sympathize with Datisi because she is taking my role in that fight).
And allow me to point out (@Ali) that I think you probably misread 618. I didn't get the feeling he was mad at ou challenging his authority at all. Read it again, if you will.
As for Billy & Klick.. the "test" made me feel good about the both of them. Billy town!slipped, and I thought Klick did too, but I also asked myself "Why would Klick come clean and admit it wasn't a town!slip on his part when he could have just ridden it and enjoyed the Town cred?")
Update: Your slot (Ali) seems town enough to me now. I dunno how to exactly phrase it into words, but the way you play .. I dunno.. doesn't have enough fluff and no signs of manipulation has been detected.
So, it's Luca/Nips/Tchill if I had to consider a lynch pool based on PoE, but I don't have a case on any of them, and I may even have reservations on going full force on someone like Tchill whom I've seen play just like that as town.
Nips is a "fox", which is why I'm being wary of him, but to tell you the truth I am not sure he had done anything scummy either. It's just paranoia if I wanted to be honest.
Finally, Luca.. I can see your case on him, but I also thing you're being too aggressive to the point he cannot rationally argue back (I know the feeling too... ). My point is, I know I have to be wrong on someone or the other.. (two of them in fact), so I'm just waiting for someone to actually slip (or come close) so that I know what's what. Else, I think I'd need a flip to start connecting the dots, and that's bad in itself because it's more of a Micro (who decided to put 9 players setups in the minis??)
Bottom line: Forget anything I said at will, but Iconeum is most likely town here.
P-edit: It's pretty good you're coming around on this on your own too.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:42 am
by Klick
V/LA for a few days.
Something has come up outside of this, I'm sorry.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:44 am
by Alisae
In post 702, Almost50 wrote:but I also thing you're being too aggressive to the point he cannot rationally argue back
you’re better off ignoring that and just addressing the case as is
I see my arguement with him as a bunch of noise
Because if you leave room for scum to talk their way out of something, they’re going to talk their way out of it and someone is going to buy it.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 9:48 am
by Alisae
Like
I’m not going to lynch Luca by continuing to talk to Luca
So I don’t think there is much to gain in our conversation where I was purposely being aggressive and not allowing him to argue back
Because I didn’t want him to rationally argue back, he tried to address my concerns, and I wasn’t really satisfied with that. Simply put there’s nothing to really gain by allowing him to argue back.
So by being super vicious, I was hoping that I could make him
A. Crack under pressure and break him
B. Get him to stop posting
If A, that provides something that’s actually helpful.
If B, then the thread has less noise in it and I can have discussions about my actual read on him.
“The 2 worst disabilities a person could suffer from is laziness and procrastination. I would take blindness over that any day of the week”
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:00 am
by Chemist1422
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 10:26 am
by Almost50
VOTE: Luca
Fine. Let's test that then.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:33 am
by Billy Pilgrim
In post 632, Datisi wrote:Mainly post 551
I think I had commented at the time that I felt like scum!Icon wanted a sheep, but then went back to pushing me after people started voting me and accusing him of being my buddy?
Mainly his catchup to my reads and discussion, but he's still a firm null
Holy shit alot of stuff happened today. I miss one day at work and there's like 150 posts.
I quoted this because I now see what happened. I got the timeline wrong. I think 419 is the origin of my confusion regarding Icon's push. Tchill talked about 3 votes on Datisi. In fact there was only ever 2. Tchill and Icon. While Luca consistently read Datisi as scummy and put doubt on her, he wasn't voting her.
The whole thing started when Icon cased Emperor in 227, which had early traction until tchill let the air out of the Emperor push and then tchill voted Datisi in 235.
Almost comes into the game catches up and votes Kop. Then at 320 Icon votes Kop. After that Icon then seems to shade Luca a bit because of the Datisi scumread then signs off on it because of the lurking at posts 330 and 331. Datisi comes out with her reads list then Icon goes back to Kop at 344(all of this takes place within an hour). For the next 20 posts Luca and Icon ratchet up the pressure on Datisi and 366 Icon switches his vote back over to Datisi. Then 372 Icon hops back over to Kop after reading the Datisi/Icon/Luca situation as potentially all town. Datisi then votes Kop at 375. All that happened within 5 hours of the original call out for lurking. Kop goes up to L-1. Tchill calls out the kop votes and calls for more pressure on Datisi. So then there's some time where the votes are sitting on Kop then the replacement request happens. Then 477 Emperor votes Datisi for there to be 2 votes there. Now Luca votes Datisi at 488. And it's immediately after he expresses skepticism of Icon for switching his vote off Datisi back at post 371. Then 490 Icon votes Datisi. This entire current wagon built up from 1 vote to L-1 in under a page.
I'm most skeptical of Luca here. I don't see what changed from when he was shading Datisi the first time Icon ran the wagon to this time. I was looking at Icon/Datisi and I missed the person who was sitting mostly on the sidelines. I think when it got more likely, specifically when Emperor hopped on, now he felt he had more cover and came in as the middle vote.
VOTE: Luca
Pedit: as I was typing this monster I saw a luca vote from A50. So this is now L-2
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:36 am
by Billy Pilgrim
The tone of those Alisae posts was mad aggro, but i credit her vote count post with making me think.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:28 pm
by Luca Blight
You say you don’t see what changed, but I literally explained it - it’s not as if I just voted her without further explanation.
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:31 pm
by Alisae
In post 714, Luca Blight wrote:My explanation is flawless and there is literally nothing wrong with it why am I being bullied =(
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:31 pm
by Luca Blight
Almost50 - can I get an update on your Datisi read?
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:35 pm
by Luca Blight
Alisae, have you thought of an answer as to why you said my 85 post was throwing shade yet? Or are you going to avoid this question for a fifth (or is it sixth) time?
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:37 pm
by Alisae
Posted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:48 pm
by Luca Blight
Why not just admit you were wrong?
I will try and explain my Datisi progression a bit clearer when I’m on a computer in a few hours.
). My point is, I know I have to be wrong on someone or the other.. (two of them in fact), so I'm just waiting for someone to actually slip (or come close) so that I know what's what. Else, I think I'd need a flip to start connecting the dots, and that's bad in itself because it's more of a Micro (who decided to put 9 players setups in the minis??)
