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In post 692, AaronFrost wrote:There might be some kind of association with Mena/Chemist depending on how it flips but I'm not sure if Mena hard defends his buddy like that.

I mean I have a townread on Menalque but scum is in a terrible situation if one gets lynched Day 1. There's a lot of roles that could screw them over: Tracker, Jailkeeper, and Roleblocker. So a hard defend could very much be worth it.

In post 698, Alduskkel wrote:Ugh I have no proof but the worst's reads just feel... convenient. Like, he's townreading Menalque which is a decent way to buddy him into not voting the worst anymore. Meanwhile he's positioning himself into a scumread on me which has obvious benefits for him. Menalque, be careful because I think there's a good chance that the worst is trying to pocket you.

this is literally positioning my dude

either my reads are convenient and i am making them up, or they are what they are because those are my reads - there is nothing in your catchup just now trying to actually parse my content for authenticity or legitimacy : / it looks to me like you're trying to bury the hatchet. if you're town, take a step back and bias check yourself please because you are making my lynch more likely, but doing nothing to solve my alignment.

In post 698, Alduskkel wrote:I also don't like how the worst hasn't addressed at all Icon's fake L-1 vote or asking me to claim. Feels like he's trying to change what people look at in Icon's iso to stuff that's easier for the worst to defend.

i've seen neither of those
and like at face value i don't see why either of those things are alignment indicative things i should be inclined to talk about

could you explain a bit more?

In post 698, Alduskkel wrote:And furthermore the worst is like "if I were scum I'd just lolhammer chemist" and then in post 688 asks if he should just lolhammer chemist. You can't use not lolhammering as evidence that you're town and then be like "ok but can I do it anyway?" On top of that, Autumnal Mafia had two lolhammers and both of them got lynched.

which proves, decisively, that i am funny.
regrettably you're gonna have to try and look for things which suggest an actual mindset from me rather than say "wow the worst did this and it looks bad; ergo i think he might be scum"

brief aside: did you know i am wooper? it might help you in considering your read here if you're town bc you have basically policy lynched me when i had a perfect solve quite recently

just for the record i:
don't give a shit about autumnal mafia
regularly win scumgames via lolhammering first and apologising later

there is incentive for lolhammering, and incentive for not lolhammering

ez

this is a nonsensical wifomy self meta conversation but it's literally your fault for continuing it - can we stop going over this and focus on AI shit?

In post 698, Alduskkel wrote:explain how if you and chemist are town then that implicates me as scum
what if all the wagons are on town
and what even makes you think chem is town?

again this is deeply superficial vca if x y z is true but if chem and i are both town then we have both chosen you as a vanity wagon in the face of consensus; given this means we're not scumreading ourselves & each other we are more likely (in this world where we're both town) to have a better chance at lynching scum in the remaining slots via aiming at a 2/7 rather than a 2/8

it's not like, intended to convince, it's something that quickly passed through my brain - i don't have a strong read on your slot yet outside of you being more interested in lynching than sorting.

for the record i have a large pause because you were more interested in lynching me than sorting d2 in furret's bizarre adventure; you were IC'd there so when i realised that, it made your alignment a lot easier to parse

wait I thought I defended you in furret's bizarre adventure
gonna go check

in fairness others did a lot more of the work in burying me but you didn't defend me. like after my massive spampost catchup you were like "huh maybe he's not scum but we should lynch him anyway"

hmm
do you see why there's additional incentive to lolhammer and claim PR as scum in this setup?

Alduskkel wrote:Ok I might regret this but
VOTE: Saudade

My gut says Wooper is town and it makes sense that he wouldn’t know who to try and protect N1. Also Wooper is actually trying to scumhunt it feels like which is more than I can say for saudade and chemist

Alduskkel wrote:Another problem I have with the idea of Wooper=scum is no one makes sense as his partner cuz basically everyone turned against him when trying to lynch Saudade was a potential option

Dude I totally came around to defending you in FBA. Don't misrepresent how that game went down.

like an hour from deadline when i was already maj wagon by a mile and there was no chance of changing it

i don't dislike you for it, i'm just completely wary that you're likely to approach this game similarly at a policy level

can you throw me why you think iconeum was/i am mafia real quick?

In post 704, the worst wrote:"huh maybe he's not scum but we should lynch him anyway"

in retrospect i think this might have been more kittens' line of thinking
i digress, it's not all that material

In post 701, the worst wrote:this is literally positioning my dude

either my reads are convenient and i am making them up, or they are what they are because those are my reads - there is nothing in your catchup just now trying to actually parse my content for authenticity or legitimacy : / it looks to me like you're trying to bury the hatchet. if you're town, take a step back and bias check yourself please because you are making my lynch more likely, but doing nothing to solve my alignment.

I didn't read your posts with the preconceived notion that you're scum. I think you're being overly quick to accuse me (and also Mena) of tunneling.

In post 701, the worst wrote:

In post 698, Alduskkel wrote:I also don't like how the worst hasn't addressed at all Icon's fake L-1 vote or asking me to claim. Feels like he's trying to change what people look at in Icon's iso to stuff that's easier for the worst to defend.

i've seen neither of those
and like at face value i don't see why either of those things are alignment indicative things i should be inclined to talk about

could you explain a bit more?

I mean scum would be happy to see people claim early so it's absolutely AI. What page are you on right now? The relevant page is 19.

In post 701, the worst wrote:regrettably you're gonna have to try and look for things which suggest an actual mindset from me rather than say "wow the worst did this and it looks bad; ergo i think he might be scum"

If you're scum then you're basically obligated to scumread chemist and/or me. If you're town then there's a possibility you might have come in and said "oh shit, all 3 wagons look like they're on townies" even if such a stance isn't beneficial to your survival. So, statistically, your initial approach to this game makes you more likely to be scum.

In post 701, the worst wrote:brief aside: did you know i am wooper? it might help you in considering your read here if you're town bc you have basically policy lynched me when i had a perfect solve quite recently

dude I did NOT policy lynch you in FBA. I wasn't even voting you when you got lynched. (p-edit: I see you already noticed this yourself, so I guess that's cleared up)

In post 701, the worst wrote:just for the record i:
don't give a shit about autumnal mafia
regularly win scumgames via lolhammering first and apologising later

there is incentive for lolhammering, and incentive for not lolhammering

ez

this is a nonsensical wifomy self meta conversation but it's literally your fault for continuing it - can we stop going over this and focus on AI shit?

1. well you should give a shit. it's definitely going to be a major influence for me on how I read icon/emps/mena and it's useful for other people trying to read me.
2. I'll agree to drop it as long as you don't actually lolhammer or try to give yourself towncred for not lolhammering.

In post 701, the worst wrote:again this is deeply superficial vca if x y z is true but if chem and i are both town then we have both chosen you as a vanity wagon in the face of consensus; given this means we're not scumreading ourselves & each other we are more likely (in this world where we're both town) to have a better chance at lynching scum in the remaining slots via aiming at a 2/7 rather than a 2/8

it's not like, intended to convince, it's something that quickly passed through my brain - i don't have a strong read on your slot yet outside of you being more interested in lynching than sorting.

Honestly if it's "deeply superficial" and you're going to back down on it then you shouldn't have posted it in the first place. I also disagree with the notion that I'm more interested in lynching than sorting, and if you haven't even read the entire game yet then how can you make that assumption about me?

In post 709, Alduskkel wrote:If you're scum then you're basically obligated to scumread chemist and/or me. If you're town then there's a possibility you might have come in and said "oh shit, all 3 wagons look like they're on townies" even if such a stance isn't beneficial to your survival. So, statistically, your initial approach to this game makes you more likely to be scum.

i don't have a read on chemist, i literally asked him to level with me because i don't think he's alignment told yet. i'm pushing back at you because i don't really buy your posting since i've entered the game, but i'm not really convinced on you either. if i could vig someone rn it'd probably be emps tbh but i don't think i'm agenda driving at all, particularly wrt you and chemist - i'm trying to get a read on the two of you in particular.

re linear catchup: haven't had a chance to start. responding to posts takes first priority because i'm at risk of being lynched.

In post 709, Alduskkel wrote:I mean scum would be happy to see people claim early so it's absolutely AI. What page are you on right now? The relevant page is 19.

this is like... extremely surface
there's an entire dialogue of "since everyone knows scum are happy for d1 claims in this setup why would scum ever fucking do that" repeat ad infinitum. this is something that looks bad, sure, and could be considered a scum indicator; but it's not an explicit scumtell and i don't think it's enough to lock a read off of if you know what i mean? is there anything else in his iso which is making you have this read? like candidly i think the unapologetic approach he took to reads this game is towny in a way which like heavily outweighs him asking for a claim from someone he was scumreading at l-2

In post 709, Alduskkel wrote:Honestly if it's "deeply superficial" and you're going to back down on it then you shouldn't have posted it in the first place. I also disagree with the notion that I'm more interested in lynching than sorting, and if you haven't even read the entire game yet then how can you make that assumption about me?

can you like, explain your current read in my slot in 50 words or less please? since i've replaced in all you've spoken about is disliking iconeum because he asked you for a claim early - that's such an absurdly surface-level read that it DOES look like positioning at the expensive of sorting. at a technical level i'm pretty sure you're a good enough player to see that, and i don't think you'd either have or make up such a crappy read. so either i'm missing something, or you're clumsily tunnelled because ico asked you for an early claim and it's clouding your judgement.

also like.... i am going to post thoughts if they cross my mind and i'm not feeling remotely apologetic for that

until i have time to read and digest this sucker i'm going to open what dialogues i can; i didn't have much to talk to AF about but i was interested in his reads, so i highlighted that at a really basic analytical level we should be considering you & asked for an updated read on you

just because it's surface level and doesn't make you like lockscum doesn't mean i'm disallowed to bring it up. i'm completely entitled to bring up mediocre tells if i feel like it!!

In post 707, the worst wrote:can you throw me why you think iconeum was/i am mafia real quick?

Icon's attack on HH felt hypocritical, and not an attempt at genuine scumhunting but more like a way of looking busy/scumhunting. It looked like it was trying to discredit HH.
Post 460 doesn't really look like it comes from town.

As for why I'm scumreading you:
1. Looks like you're buddying Menalque
2. Convenient for you to scumread me
3. Too quick to label my read and Menalque's read on you as tunneling. We're both giving you a fair hearing I think, and it feels like you're trying to play upon our uncertainty and the fear of potentially tunneling on town (even if we're not tunneling, there's the fear of "what if I am tunneling and I just don't realize it?")
4. Feels like you're trying to do the classic "replace into a scummy slot, but come in strong and quickly turn around people's reads while the original player's scumminess is forgotten." Which can be a good thing if you've replaced into a scummy town slot, but the way you're doing it looks more like you're trying to aggressively assert that you're town instead of doing much scumhunting.

p-edit:

the worst wrote:there's an entire dialogue of "since everyone knows scum are happy for d1 claims in this setup why would scum ever fucking do that" repeat ad infinitum. this is something that looks bad, sure, and could be considered a scum indicator; but it's not an explicit scumtell and i don't think it's enough to lock a read off of if you know what i mean? is there anything else in his iso which is making you have this read? like candidly i think the unapologetic approach he took to reads this game is towny in a way which like heavily outweighs him asking for a claim from someone he was scumreading at l-2

you're WIFOMing here
It's not "enough to lock a read off of" but it definitely adds to my scumread of Icon.

Anyway I hope this post helps you understand why I scumread your slot. You can also look at my ISO for the posts where I mention Icon.

largely for postgame credit i'm gonna call ~1 scum in {emps,hh} for this thing

In post 87, JJJ wrote:

In post 85, Menalque wrote:

In post 83, JJJ wrote:Emps. Real vote please.

-X

I legitimately don't know what you mean

I'm asking emps to place a real vote?
-X

In post 92, AaronFrost wrote:

In post 91, Look At Me Im So Town wrote:Where are the scum vibes coming from?

I was pinged by 13 and then even more by 63. I have no idea what he's getting at with bringing up the NewbScum greeting tell thing when I'm not new by any stretch?

Also don't like how he's legitimately scumreads Chemist over his 19.

this is interesting

aldus' early posting does signal a lot of effort in ways which is AI But I Don't Know Which Alignment
agree chemist 19 is pretty much completely NAI outside of context of tonereading chemist

In post 106, Iconeum wrote:

In post 101, Uncrowned wrote:It's not a random vote, so yeah.

I dislike the lack of commital to an actual vote. Emps jumped on the meme without actually doing anything.

In post 105, Uncrowned wrote:Because scum would rather be non-commital and not get involved in having to come up with BS explanations for their actions. If they're scum, this gives Emps an easy start to the game so they can read and react later on.

Too bad I called it out.

i like this thinking for town

ya

nvm reading ico/hh in context i think hh is likely town

In post 125, Iconeum wrote:also

G

In post 126, Iconeum wrote:

In post 121, JJJ wrote:"do you have a problem with that?"

obviously I have a problem with it. And you're not even addressing anything I said. You're not trying to form a read on me, you're just spewing crap like you were in the first place

please don't misrep me with this crap tho

the entire reason for calling you out is to play the game? if this isn't me engaging with you, then what its?

In post 127, Iconeum wrote:do you think scum!Ico feels the need to form an actual scumread this stage of the game?

In post 128, Iconeum wrote:that's not to say i think ur scum

i don't know

i think your RVS is the scummiest i've seen, and it stood out strongly enough for me to call you out for it

In post 129, Iconeum wrote:I think ur extremely defensive for a simple callout tho

If you are town, do you really have a problem with me calling something that I think was scum indicative out?

this selfspam is, again, very towny
ico's read on HH also feels kinda silly, and while HH's defensiveness is like that's more of a playstyle tell than an alignment tell

lol I think we simulposted 714 and 715 because it doesn't look like you got a notification that there was a new post in the thread when you submitted 715.

I feel a little silly asking for a read on your own slot but what about that selfspam is towny?

In post 155, Menalque wrote:VOTE: datisi

mena if you happen to remember your brain back when you posted this like... what was your opinion on the aldus/ico stuff that was going on or the HH/ico stuff that had gone on or like... AnYtHiNg...

@Aldus, yup I missed 714 originally
I think I'm starting to see your read more clearly; indeed you focusing on the policy "claim at L-2" thing had thrown me off you having a more thought-out detailed read on ico

re the selfspam he just has like way too many fucking thoughts in complete realtime:

126 - calling hh out on engaging in bad faith and the conversation not really making sense and hh misrepping him

127 - defaults to selfmeta in a way which like... frankly it's just correct, this isn't scum!ico modus operadi at all. i tend to think that selfmeta is alignment indicative situationally. if someone feels that they are being misrepresented, it makes a lot of sense for one to be like "do we know each other? if so, why the fuck do you think this is EVER me as scum?" in a completely earnest way; on the flipside, if someone feels cornered it's also totally fair for them to react with "oh yeah well i've done this three times as town so mnerrr you're wrong". I can understand why people don't like going down the selfmeta rabbithole but i think it reads pretty pure here. was it nsg who said selfmeta has become towny in this era? maybe. it was someone fucking awesome. and it's true. town people do tend to take shit more personally and lean more heavily into meta in this era.

128 - despite the fact this conversation is stupid and ico feels misrepped he still doesn't feel indignant that HH is scum; if he is scum making up the read why is he only kinda half committing to it? given he'd be breaking meta by taking the bull by the horns with his too-early scumread, he also made the decision to then back down from the scumread? don't think so. i think this is ico seeing something slightly suspicious, and pressing it to see if there were cracks.

129 - despite not really thinking hh is scum despite this conversation being stupid and hh misrepresenting ico, ico IS concerned that hh is really too defensive given how the conversation has gone down so he asks them to talk more about this

the whole chain reads to me like someone who is processing how they feel about something and posting accordingly, not someone who is making shit up on the fly and readjusting it (when scum are in this situation, they tend to adjust it to look like a consistent trajectory or to make it MORE airtight, not less. this rant is earnest.)

vanity but i don't really want my vote on aldus aorn:
VOTE: emps