Mafiascum.net

In post 699, schadd_ wrote:

In post 697, Tayl0r Swift wrote:do the other party to the contract have to accept the terms? like the contract cant be "if youre scum kill yourself can it"

yes

you can only propose contracts to the mastina + titus + nero cain faction (which as we recently found out is call the henry p. jurgenssen society)

In post 277, Almost50 wrote:Guys, keep the heat on Math enough for him to not be NK'd, but not hard enough to get him eliminated.

In post 4574, MathBlade wrote:Scum can double kill.

sb caught this "confirmation" that went totally unnoticed by me. Math is the Doctor and he did most likely protected Norwee, which is why he got upset you outed I was protected.

ALSO sb suggests we eliminate jjh anyway. He says we get rid of the uninvestigatable slot and it gives YOU the chance to be on ddl/Pickaxe next to earn the points.

As for Taylor, I dunno how likely she is/isn't the Vig anymore. If Math is Doctor who protected Norwee then I don't see her shooting me (the other one who was protected last night), so she is either Odd-Night or she isn't a Vig at all.

P.S. I guess I didn't explain why I TR Taylor properly, but I somehow got the impression she hinted Vig on D2 without crumbing it. That's why I asked her if she has anything "

odd or even

bizarre" to tell me. I am not sure she would pick on such a subtle question, and if she does I have no idea how she could respond to it without outing (if she IS indeed a Vig)

Anyway, what do you think about sb's suggestion to nuke jjh anyway?

In post 708, Tayl0r Swift wrote:who is misgendering whom? is it when people misgender misty?

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:OK, then. Let me ask you some specific questions (I have many) and you try to answer each on it's own. (Sorry to have to male you do the extra effort).

1- Let's first agree "You are confirmed not to be Army" is NOT the same as "You are confirmed to be TOWN=ALIGNED". That's for starters.

2- Why are you using the neighborizer to explain the Motion Detector result when you claim it's a group thing and cannot be tracked?

3- The points system is weird, but the game already reminds me much of Gistou, so I'll take that with a grain of salt

4- How did you get a point from "guessing" there's scum between Gamma/Norwee specifically? And did you get another point from the Gmma wagon?

5- So, you get a TOTAL of 2 points if you avoid TWO miseliminations and be on TWO scum eliminations? Just 2??

6- What "4" should be NK'd? Are you counting me?? If so, what of the future neighborizer targets?? If it's not me, who is your 4th and why aren't they here with us?

7- Did you hand out a Tracker ability already?? (Don't tell me to whom if you did)

8- I don't get the "We can auto protect someone not us and they get to determine the d3 lynch. Everyone else votes on a bp." Can you please clarify these two points?

9- Don't you fins it a bit odd the mod tells you te number of scum, and the exact role and modifier of Plusjoyed?

10- Is it ALSO mod-confirmed that "Everyone else is explicitly town aligned but not -necessarily- town." or is that your own conclusion?

11- Why would there be a "group Lyncher" on sb specifically?

12- If you have the option to win while everyone else loses you are explicitly NOT Town, but you "can win with Town if you voluntarily leave with 4 pts". What guarantees you don't go for the full exclusive win?

13- You don't want me to self-sacrifice for you, do you?

I guess that's all for now, but I may have more questions depending on your responses.

In post 24, Titus wrote:1. Correct. However, once army is gone, the game is over. I can't confirm us as town, but we are not a threat to the town.
2. I was the one who submitted it, so I supposed that's where the track came from.
3. Ok.
4. We got one point from our submission that one of two names contained a scum. We guessed Gamma and Norway.
5. Yes but it only counts if all three of us are on the same wagon. So if I'm on a lynch that hits scum but mastina isn't. It doesn't matter for the wincon.
6. No. The 4 points is if mastina, Nero and I get NKed. Only we count.
7. Yes. We hand one out nightly.
8. Sure. Today we vote in our hood for one person. That person cannot die. That person determines who we execute tomorrow. Tomorrow, everyone else votes for someone to be bulletproof. We can't vote ourselves kingmaker.
9. Nope. The setup is designed for us to hate each other.
10. That is mod confirmed information. That's why mastina pushed for your claim being real.
11. To get our third parties to turn against each other to give scum a fighting chance.
12. We can't get the "full exclusive win" without all four of us being nightkilled realistically. We can't just go for the exclusive win. We have to play for town to draw the NK.
13. No. The only way I can see that coming into play is with scum being caught by the public cop.

In post 709, MathBlade wrote:

In post 708, Tayl0r Swift wrote:who is misgendering whom? is it when people misgender misty?

I am a trans guy. (Town you wouldn’t know this)
A50 called me she throughout that whole post. (Prolly an accident)

It’s payback for when I accidentally misgendered Chemist in our hood. Called Misty a he.

In post 54, mastina wrote:

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:1- Let's first agree "You are confirmed not to be Army" is NOT the same as "You are confirmed to be TOWN=ALIGNED". That's for starters.

I mean, technically speaking, we're not town-aligned and if we did get 7 points, the town as well as the scum and as well as you would all lose--none of us want that though because who the fuck would want that?

BUT.

If all members of King Doris Donatello's army are eliminated and we don't get four points, the game doesn't continue--we lose.

So if we got 7 points, in that sense, we would be anti-town, but

in all other circumstances

, we are NOT classified as threats to the town.

We come back as members of the Henry P Jurgenssen society to an alignment cop.

We may not be, strictly speaking, town aligned, but we are NOT threats to the town and our win condition is extremely town-friendly: we can create this neighborhood, get information through contracts (maybe), our N2 ability is a doc save of sorts, we can hand out trackers (Menalque was our N1 tracker hand-out, obviously), we have information that if shared with the town is incredibly town-friendly, we needed to guess scum D1, we need to be together on the lynch of scum and not on the lynch of town, and we need to get nightkilled by the scum, among others.

These are all objectives that overlap with the town's wincon, these are all things that help the town, so helping the town will help us win, but we are, technically speaking, in spite of being incredibly town-friendly, not EXPLICITLY town-aligned.

That having been said

--I think you know me well enough, Almost50, to know that I'll treat just about any 3p as if I am town, and this is the perfect one for me to do just that. I am treating it as if I am a mason with Titus and Nero Cain, who can hand out tracks, and who can give out a N2 protection, and has information about the scum and one town role.

So while we might not explicitly be town-aligned in theory, in practice, for all intents and purposes, we are.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:2- Why are you using the neighborizer to explain the Motion Detector result when you claim it's a group thing and cannot be tracked?

This is something Titus needed to ask schadd_ about as we did not know before-hand.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:3- The points system is weird, but the game already reminds me much of Gistou, so I'll take that with a grain of salt

I mean, our point system is a much better iteration of the 3p system than the last MBOS Large, and I feel like it was handled well.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:4- How did you get a point from "guessing" there's scum between Gamma/Norwee specifically? And did you get another point from the Gmma wagon?

We were required to compile a list by the end of D1 of two people that we guessed would have at least one scum in it. I submitted {Gamma, Norwegian}. Gamma was scum, so we got one point.

We don't get a point immediately from being together on the Gamma wagon--but if we are all together on every scum wagon and no more than one town wagon, we get two points from that.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:5- So, you get a TOTAL of 2 points if you avoid TWO miseliminations and be on TWO scum eliminations? Just 2??

Just two, but again, we only need four to win, and we've got multiple ways to get to that given we got one from D1 and are on track to get said two points as well.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:6- What "4" should be NK'd?

It's us three--we get four points if all three of us are nightkilled, and get points (but not as many) for two killed and one killed.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:7- Did you hand out a Tracker ability already?? (Don't tell me to whom if you did)

The Mena flip should make it obvious enough not only that it was yes, but who as well.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:8- I don't get the "We can auto protect someone not us and they get to determine the d3 lynch. Everyone else votes on a bp." Can you please clarify these two points?

Basically, we submit the name of one player N2.
That player gets to choose who dies D3.
Everyone else in N3 gets to choose one player to receive a 1x bulletproof.
Think kind-of like a weird variant on a Beloved Princess, but also a night-skipper. The handing out of bulletproofs means N3 is effectively skipped, to compensate for D3 being skipped, or so I'd assume that's the design intent.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:9- Don't you fins it a bit odd the mod tells you te number of scum, and the exact role and modifier of Plusjoyed?

Not at all. This fits with us being a 3p in the same fashion as the 3p from the first game, except not removed from the gamethread and not as anti-town. (To reiterate, while I am playing this as if I am town-aligned, and our faction has many many pro-town facets to it, we are technically speaking, strictly speaking, not inherently town-aligned and thus us having information of this nature isn't to be unexpected.)

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:10- Is it ALSO mod-confirmed that "Everyone else is explicitly town aligned but not -necessarily- town." or is that your own conclusion?

It is confirmed by the mod, tho with some odd wording of sorts.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:11- Why would there be a "group Lyncher" on sb specifically?

I'd assume to discourage us from working with you, encourage us to eliminate an explicitly pro-town 3p and try to keep us from being more town-inclined. To give us the option, if we were so inclined, to want to be more antitown, as it were.

I dunno about Titus or Nero, but I for one am more in favor of winning through protownness.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:12- If you have the option to win while everyone else loses you are explicitly NOT Town, but you "can win with Town if you voluntarily leave with 4 pts". What guarantees you don't go for the full exclusive win?

Because,
1: That would be unfun.
2: That would be a dick move.
3: That would be harder to do.
4: That would be thoroughly unsatisfying.
5: It's in my nature to want to cooperate.
6: When I am 3p and not explicitly mutually exclusive from winning from town, I will try my damnedest to win with the town.
7: Even if I WERE mutually exclusive from winning with the town, as a 3p I still try to help the town ANYWAY, wincon be damned.

In post 21, Almost50 wrote:13- You don't want me to self-sacrifice for you, do you?

I mean, would help us, but isn't inherently needed.

In post 62, mastina wrote:Btw, another detail:
We are informed of the disloyal alignment cop's target.
So we knew the disloyal alignment cop targeted shellyc the moment D2 started.

In post 505, Titus wrote:@A50, We aren't getting NKed as it is now.

@NorweiganboyEE, We had before but I'll summarize again

1 point for guessing between two names for Army on day 1. We guessed Gamma and NorweiganboyEE. So we got that point.
2 points for being on every scum elimination (minimum two). All surviving members must be on the wagon. We lose this if, as a collective, we are all on two town-aligned wagons.
2 points for two of us being NKed
4 points for all of us being NKed
1 point for executing superbowl9
1 point for someone dying for the cause
1 point if one of us survives until the end game
1 point if the person we gifted a tracker to tracks a nightkill (impossible, we gifted Menalque)

In post 247, mastina wrote:

In post 105, Almost50 wrote:2- I also told you mod reassured me TWICE that the MD should detect your action. I asked in two different ways, and the second time was "If we were 3 Goons in my faction and we had a factional RB/Busdrive..." and he still said he would likely attribute the action to one individual

Conclusion: You either ASSUMED that's how it works, or you were too confident in your SR on FL you actually "lied" to me about this specific detail.

No, we didn't lie.

Our neighborize of you did not show up to a motion detector.
We didn't assume that it did and we didn't lie that it did.
It 100% did not.

You can confirm this with schadd_ in postgame that we were not wrong in saying this. That we were in fact telling the truth. That Titus having selected you as a neighborize does

not

count as her visiting you to an action investigator.

Meaning that either,
1: April was town lying about his result in spite of truthfully saying what his role was, or,
2: Titus was visited by a player that did not claim responsibility for this visit D2.
Those are the only options, aside from 3: mod error with schadd_ either fucking up by showing something he shouldn't have or answering us incorrectly.

Because I swear to god we weren't assuming. schadd_ literally told us, completely and unambiguously, that our neighborize would NOT show up to an action investigation of any kind, including not showing up to a motion detector. There's no room for misinterpreting that. There's no room for error on our part, there's no room for mistaken interpretation, no room for any sort of error in how we read it.

And no, we didn't lie about it. I'd never lie about a role result to fake a guilty on someone because that runs contrary to my fundamental mafia principles, and nobody could ever convince me, ever, to compromise those principles. (Trust me, people have tried to get me to go along with a lie. I did not.)

So again.
Mod error in resolution/answer.
FL lying about a result while realclaiming the role.
Or an unclaimed role visiting Titus.

Those are literally the only possibilities.

That said, yes, I was overconfident that this was a guilty when apparently it wasn't. But it wasn't fake and it wasn't erroneous because schadd_ really did tell us that our neighborize cannot show up to action investigations including not showing up to a motion detector. That wasn't a lie and there's no alternative interpretation to his statement. (I'd quote it verbatim if not for the risk of a modkill, but in postgame when you see the statement, you'll agree; there's zero ambiguity in it. It is very explicit.)

In post 474, Nero Cain wrote:shelly
chemist
bell

are army

SS
math

are the pro-scum 3p faction

In post 722, Tayl0r Swift wrote:nero thinks im scum because of PT. not sure why tho.