Mafiascum.net

In post 698, GuiltyLion wrote:here it is for your viewing pleasure N_M:

In post 702, Not_Mafia wrote:

In post 698, GuiltyLion wrote:here it is for your viewing pleasure N_M:

Whatever, just get someone to E-1

In post 698, GuiltyLion wrote:I also think Bingle's openwolf 477 may have been meant to scare us away from a Vander wagon.

In post 697, Not_Mafia wrote:I want Guilty Lion still

VOTE: Lukewarm

In post 707, Hopkirk wrote:Vanders/Luke>GL slightly>Dunn>Marc but i might reread

In post 678, Hopkirk wrote:like that was a self-hammer since you made the vote knowing that NM was going to vote you. if this flips town then i'm pissed and you've lost the respect i had for you as a player before this. the amount of self-hammers i see from town ruining a good half of my games is pissing me off.

In post 698, GuiltyLion wrote:I really don't think Lukewarm is likely, all the twilight posting would be hard to do in real time knowing Bingle scumflip was imminent, including posts in our hood between thread lock and flip.

I posted this in our hood and Vander ignored it in favor of not posting at all over the entirety of the night phase, here it is for your viewing pleasure N_M:

I think Vanders' progression on Bingle is quite awkward

in 230 he votes marcistar, despite the fact that he claimed to believe we should eliminate in the 3p. (I still maintain that despite posting a handful of times about eliminating in the 3p, Vanderscamp did not seem to actually care about eliminating in the 3p, especially when most players had suggested that we shouldn't).

He then quotes Bingle posts from prior to 230, in his 231 and 233 he quotes Bingle's 212 and 219, then concludes in 235 that he thinks Bingle is scummier than N_M and that he thinks nEE is town. If that's the case, given that he thinks 3p was a better odds to hit scum and he's townreading one of the 3p, why was he voting elsewhere? I called this out in my post 236 and got a very short 238 in reply, which I didn't sense Vanders genuinely believed given that he spent more time discussing Bingle than marcistar.

Then the progression from question -> I don't like your answer -> vote (in 255, 262, 263) feels like where the decision to bus comes in. Despite scumreading and voting (!) Bingle, Vanders claims he got "nothing" out of Bingle v Hopkirk in 329 - I feel a townie who was voting Bingle as their primary SR there would have had more to say.

I also still agree with my own 469 and I don't think Vanderscamp understood my point nor addressed it in a satisfying way. My point wasn't that he wasn't aware of the pools once he posted, my point was "I was gonna say it's not S-S until I remembered [emphasis mine] it couldn't be" betrays a lack of critical thought or care about the pools when analyzing interactions. I haven't once forgotten who was in which pool this game, because it's centrally important to determining who scum is. Vanders post implied that he did, which I find hard to believe coming from town.

I also think Bingle's openwolf 477 may have been meant to scare us away from a Vander wagon.

In post 712, Vanderscamp wrote:I'm not reading the neighbourhood chat, sorry.

In post 704, Lukewarm wrote:Overall, I like a lot of your reasoning about Vanderscamp, but this one really give me pause.

In post 698, GuiltyLion wrote:I also think Bingle's openwolf 477 may have been meant to scare us away from a Vander wagon.

Because, like when he made 477, You+Marci were alraedy voting for Vanderscamp, and I was so obviously trapped in his pocket, he should have know there was a chance I would follow his lead there. That puts Vanders at e-2, which is often equivalent to e-1 in a game with Not_Mafia. So, if I had followed through with his suggestion, the he would have immediately been put into the position of needing in to ante up or back out of his "I will vote Vanderscamp if we then vote Hopkirk"

For 477 to save Vanderscamp, Bingle would have had to assume I was going to climb out of his pocket at that moment. But from the nice and cozy comfort of his pocket, I saw it was "extreme confidence in his scum read" instead of "openwolfing." So 477 came awfully close to either getting Vanders voted out (GL, Marci, Me, Bingle, Not_Mafia is an Elimination) or essentially a scum partner claim by forcing Bingle to backtrack 477 the moment I follow him and vote Vanders.

In post 706, Hopkirk wrote:VOTE: vanderscamp

In post 714, GuiltyLion wrote:I'm a million percent not buying that you don't believe that town!me could see you as scummy here. You are only pushing me because I'm pushing you and you feel forced to 1v1 me to discredit me.

The point of 469 is that it should not have ever crossed your mind that marci/Luke COULD have been S-S in the first place

In post 704, Lukewarm wrote:Overall, I like a lot of your reasoning about Vanderscamp, but this one really give me pause.

In post 698, GuiltyLion wrote:I also think Bingle's openwolf 477 may have been meant to scare us away from a Vander wagon.

Because, like when he made 477, You+Marci were alraedy voting for Vanderscamp, and I was so obviously trapped in his pocket, he should have know there was a chance I would follow his lead there. That puts Vanders at e-2, which is often equivalent to e-1 in a game with Not_Mafia. So, if I had followed through with his suggestion, the he would have immediately been put into the position of needing in to ante up or back out of his "I will vote Vanderscamp if we then vote Hopkirk"

For 477 to save Vanderscamp, Bingle would have had to assume I was going to climb out of his pocket at that moment. But from the nice and cozy comfort of his pocket, I saw it was "extreme confidence in his scum read" instead of "openwolfing." So 477 came awfully close to either getting Vanders voted out (GL, Marci, Me, Bingle, Not_Mafia is an Elimination) or essentially a scum partner claim by forcing Bingle to backtrack 477 the moment I follow him and vote Vanders.

In post 715, GuiltyLion wrote:

In post 712, Vanderscamp wrote:I'm not reading the neighbourhood chat, sorry.

shouldn't you be concerned about what scum might be posting in there?

In post 718, Vanderscamp wrote:I thought I should be the most obvious town in the big pool coming into the day today, that obviously isn't true since you and hopkirk are both voting me.

I specifically don't like you thinking the Marci vote is suspicious, I think that is much scummier than your s-s thing.

Why do you think it's scummy that I voted Marci? Because your reasons are all things that are not only wrong, but I explained why they're wrong both at the start of the game and when you made this case on me last time.
I find it hard to believe that you can actually make this case against me in good faith because of this.

You said earlier that you were conceding some of the points you made against me.
Which points were those?

In post 721, GuiltyLion wrote:I normally don't like to do protracted 1v1s so don't expect me to engage with every point but I'll give you a bit of an olive branch here

In post 718, Vanderscamp wrote:I thought I should be the most obvious town in the big pool coming into the day today, that obviously isn't true since you and hopkirk are both voting me.

I specifically don't like you thinking the Marci vote is suspicious, I think that is much scummier than your s-s thing.

Why do you think it's scummy that I voted Marci? Because your reasons are all things that are not only wrong, but I explained why they're wrong both at the start of the game and when you made this case on me last time.
I find it hard to believe that you can actually make this case against me in good faith because of this.

You said earlier that you were conceding some of the points you made against me.
Which points were those?

a) first off, the idea that you would be most obvious town is frankly absurd to me. In what ways do you think you should be cleared after D1? Serious question, I'm not trying to be snarky why should a neutral observer see you as locktown?

b) It's not scummy that you voted Marci, what I am saying is scummy is how toothless it was. All you said via why she was scum was calling her awkward, you spent far more of your words on Bingle than her, and you switched to Bingle almost immediately. To me, your Marci vote looks more like a floaty convenient vote rather than one you genuinely believed in,

that

is why I see it as scummy.

c) It's mainly 495, it's fair of you to say that we did actually have a decent sized Bingle wagon and personally all of your posts feel vaguely robotic to me so I may be underrating the seriousness of your belief in eliminating in the 3p over the 6p. Especially given that you did also say you weren't opposed to eliminating in the 6p and were more arguing from the point of voting our top scumreads.

as for your most recent post, if you are town you should absolutely be reading the hood. How otherwise are we to discern between scum making excuses for not posting there? Can you really say you're giving this game your best effort if you're categorically ignoring information that may help you sort people?

In post 719, GuiltyLion wrote:Lukewarm, who is your pick for scum here?