In post 495, Connordragon07 wrote:Is No Condemn just as viable as it is in Mafia.gg/ToS or is it more beneficial to random vote D1? If it will benefit town more then I will vote for Reg, even though I don't really think it's him.
In post 497, Connordragon07 wrote:Alright then, guess I'll VOTE: RegRider, not really sure it's them but I don't wanna be miscondemned so.
That conversation happened days ago, why are you bringing it up now?
Why does it matter when I bring it up?
Hmm.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:00 pm
by CheekyTeeky
In post 271, MargotRosa wrote:Will finish reads list tonight. I just got to the bottom of page 5, for my own future reference. These are notes I made while reading through the thread.
CheekyTeeky:
I find RQS way scummier than RVS. Random votes actually get content generating. Random questions just boosts up the post count on the early pages and ends up stalling game progress more than it generates reads. But progressed quickly to RVS, so never mind.
DaTacoX:
Jumped in with nothing post.
Prism:
Also came in to post nothing. Had reservations about random voting, which would be normal for newbs, but weird out of the gate from an SE, especially to comment that they had no reads 10. Reads more like they’re trying to look busy to Town without actually doing anything.
A lot of over justification, and grasping at straws to FoS, but seems way more like they’re trying to get someone else to start a wagon so they don’t look suss by starting wagons on a bunch of Townies. 40 56 does not read like a Town post, and ISO thus far has been chock full of psots that do very little except encourage other players to start a vote on someone else. Thus far, they are my clearest scum read
RH9:
Seemed suspect of RVS, but is a newb slot, so that’s totally fair. Also, as a note, if you’re voting to create pressure, or to get a reaction, don’t say that you’re trying to get a reaction. By saying that, the other player will know that your heart isn’t in the vote, and will know there was no pressure to begin with. Wrt PR hunting, it’s hard to say. I couldn’t find in the setup info, but is the scum PT open during the day? If so, it could indicate a conversation they had had in that thread that RH9 is TMIing in the main chat.
Flow trap:
Find it amusing that they started aggressively questioning Prism because of their aggressive questioning. 50 and 105 are Townie on vibes
Connordragon07:
104 is twigging my spider senses a bit. I don’t like posts that are that large, but have very little to say when all is said and done. Certainly seem appreciative of the PR hunt
Camel:
Town on vibes. 62 is very sweet, and very newb Townie.
Rereading this entrance post I noticed that it's all shade >.> I think I was seduced by the Prism vote.
Connor/Margot not SvS.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:02 pm
by CheekyTeeky
In post 360, MargotRosa wrote:To me, that reads as Scum. I feel like Town would spend longer trying to adequately justify their serious votes
Funnily enough I find the opposite to be true. Scum tend to over justify their reads.
In post 446, RH9 wrote:Wait, what exactly did flow trap do, other then starting a bandwagon on RegRider, then voting Connordragon07, then after MargotRosa voted them, voted her? Did I miss anything? I'm worried that I missed something worse that they did. Wait, did flow trap vote CheekyTeeky, at one point?
The other vote they cast was what I imagine was an RVS on you at the top of the game. Easiest way to check is by clicking the big ISO letters next to a player's name on their posts in a game, and it will bring up every psot they've made in that game isolated, on one convenient page
In post 408, MargotRosa wrote:Don't like Prism, but I don't like the push on RegRider more
VOTE: Flow
Margot/Prism
Margot/Flow (catboi)
Margot/RH9
All not SvS
+ former Margot/Connor and obv Margot/me not SvS means either Margot is scum with exactly camel or more likely Margot is not scum.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:11 pm
by CheekyTeeky
In post 51, Prism wrote:I find that really amusing, since you saw how much effort I spend shutting players out of the game and weaponizing the pressure of deadlines as mafia, but fair enough. I'll review your start of Iceland later, but I imagine much has changed since then.
Not SvS with Catboi. (Flow) this is towny enough on it's own that I'm going to excuse myself from wading though Prisms dense ISO and lump them in my townbasket.
In post 92, RH9 wrote:I have to say that I pretty much read everybody town so far. However, I'm not sure what makes camelCasedSnivy, CheekyTeeky, or DaTacoX, mafia. I do find it confusing why camelCasedSnivy read themselves as Mafia. I have to say that these reads might change later.
Never said DTX was mafia. Cheeky probs is mafia bc of their poe and their bw and also you really took my self suspicion seriously.
I just thought that the way you read yourself made me think that you were a vanilla role. I thought that if you had an extremely important role, you would be reading yourself as 100% town or something, but then I could be wrong. I do apologise if I took your self suspicion too seriously.
I think RH9 is overplaying the newb card. Even if he's never played forum mafia before, any kind of mafia is all about being deceptive and finding deception. I don't think any sane person would think that because they are a PR they should act and claim to be incredibly townie when it's more natural to obscure the fact you're a PR with some well balanced scumminess.
And since this same style has continued into D2 it's just incredibly fake.
I also think that the PR hunt thing D1 implicated RH9 as a PR so the fact that DTX died over them is very suspicious. If I were scum I would've shot RH9 no question.
After all the ISO skims I'm willing to vote in {RH9, Catboi} camel is probably just tstbs.
VOTE: Catboi as the more dangerous of the two, though fine to switch to RH9 if people prefer that.
In post 608, MargotRosa wrote:I made clear that I didn't understand the Reg wagon in 401 and wanted clarification of where it had come from, because something seemed off. Given that noone could give me an adequate explanation of why it had happened, I decided to distrust it.
Then I'm not sure why you "retracted" your hate for the wagon, then, without being given so much as an explanation.
I didn't retract my hate for the wagon. I retracted my hate for the fact that Cheeky didn't mention it was e-1, because it wasn't e-1, and the thing I mentioned hating didn't happen. I always hated the wagon
In post 464, MargotRosa wrote:I don't know why I thought it was 4 to elim d1. Apologies. I retract my hate
You, again, appear to be contradicting your own words. Your actions mostly look like retroactive justification that doesn't hold water as any sort of believable thought process. The fact that you never even stated a read on Reg looks like you were positioning yourself against the wagon to look good later then blame others, and not that you had any sort of legitimate townread of RegRider. You can call your thoughts "stream of consciousness" but that doesn't absolve you from having to back them up at all and the fact that you continue to try to minimize this rather than produce any follow through suggests to me it's not a real thought.
I agree that the process around the wagon (very randomly strong read, retroactive justification) isn't the best but I don't think there's much contradiction with the claim about hatred w/r/t the wagon vs. Cheeky's vote. I was skeptical but reviewing Margot's posts around Cheeky's vote it actually lines up.
I feel like even if the explanation makes sense, the overall approach there just does not feel town to me
I'll agree with flow trap on this one.
And, once again as a side note... Pressuring someone doesn't work if you tell them that's what you are doing.
Just wanna point this out, "I'll agree with flow trap on this one" seems a bit suspicious to me because given RegRider gets eliminated and they flip Town, scum would blame flow trap in this situation for proposing the idea despite not following the other ones which could've resolved in a Mafia flip.
...or I'm thinking about this way too hard. Who knows
Gross shading in anticipation of a reg town flip.
Okay, but, why do they nightkill DTX if they went there to shade them? the thinking there doesn't add up. i get that plans change etc etc but generally people don't decide to kill the person they FOSed. I'm biased, of course, because I know he's saying this in defense of a slot I know is town (mine).
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:56 pm
by catboi
I think cheeky's reread is actually fairly towny? It looks like decent process, she's commenting on thngs as she goes rather than operating with a specific agenda, the observations all
make sense
to me even if I disagree with them, I can see why she's saying this stuff.
I disagree on 700, the comments from Connor are tivial to fake and in fact taken out of context feel slightly performative to me
In post 92, RH9 wrote:I have to say that I pretty much read everybody town so far. However, I'm not sure what makes camelCasedSnivy, CheekyTeeky, or DaTacoX, mafia. I do find it confusing why camelCasedSnivy read themselves as Mafia. I have to say that these reads might change later.
Never said DTX was mafia. Cheeky probs is mafia bc of their poe and their bw and also you really took my self suspicion seriously.
I just thought that the way you read yourself made me think that you were a vanilla role. I thought that if you had an extremely important role, you would be reading yourself as 100% town or something, but then I could be wrong. I do apologise if I took your self suspicion too seriously.
I think RH9 is overplaying the newb card. Even if he's never played forum mafia before, any kind of mafia is all about being deceptive and finding deception. I don't think any sane person would think that because they are a PR they should act and claim to be incredibly townie when it's more natural to obscure the fact you're a PR with some well balanced scumminess.
And since this same style has continued into D2 it's just incredibly fake.
I also think that the PR hunt thing D1 implicated RH9 as a PR so the fact that DTX died over them is very suspicious. If I were scum I would've shot RH9 no question.
After all the ISO skims I'm willing to vote in {RH9, Catboi} camel is probably just tstbs.
VOTE: Catboi as the more dangerous of the two, though fine to switch to RH9 if people prefer that.
Why am I scum independent of RH9 associations?
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:01 pm
by RH9
I feel like Mafia wanted flow trap eliminated but Catboi replaced them and now, Mafia is annoyed because Catboi is too towny to get eliminated. Also, now, I'm certain that ChekyTeeky is Town because they're the first player to outright say that the PR hunt implicated me as a PR. Now, I also somehow get why MargotRosa didn't pursue anybody on the RegRider bandwagon because everybody on that bandwagon was unlikely to get traction because they all seem perfectly like Town. So instead, she votes me because she realises that at least there will be players who might want to vote me and she is correct. So, I would actually congratulate her on that. And really, why is Catboi Mafia, independent of my associations? Catboi can perfectly well be Town but because I seem scummy, Catboi is dragged along while other people who I am likely to also be paired with like Prism who I called a Town Leader and later followed their vote on MargotRosa. If you're so certain that I'm part of the Mafia team, why do you think that Catboi is more likely scum than Town Leader Prism? Note, I'm not saying that Prism is Mafia. I still think that Prism is Town.
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:27 pm
by MargotRosa
Lord, alright, give me a minute to respond to the wagon, I wasn't anticipating it at all. Am properly rested, so can give this more of a go
In post 608, MargotRosa wrote:I made clear that I didn't understand the Reg wagon in 401 and wanted clarification of where it had come from, because something seemed off. Given that noone could give me an adequate explanation of why it had happened, I decided to distrust it.
Then I'm not sure why you "retracted" your hate for the wagon, then, without being given so much as an explanation.
I didn't retract my hate for the wagon. I retracted my hate for the fact that Cheeky didn't mention it was e-1, because it wasn't e-1, and the thing I mentioned hating didn't happen. I always hated the wagon
In post 464, MargotRosa wrote:I don't know why I thought it was 4 to elim d1. Apologies. I retract my hate
You, again, appear to be contradicting your own words. Your actions mostly look like retroactive justification that doesn't hold water as any sort of believable thought process. The fact that you never even stated a read on Reg looks like you were positioning yourself against the wagon to look good later then blame others, and not that you had any sort of legitimate townread of RegRider. You can call your thoughts "stream of consciousness" but that doesn't absolve you from having to back them up at all and the fact that you continue to try to minimize this rather than produce any follow through suggests to me it's not a real thought.
This is actually driving me insane. I'll go through this one step at a time.
The post that is getting everyone riled up is the following one:
In post 464, MargotRosa wrote:I don't know why I thought it was 4 to elim d1. Apologies. I retract my hate
I can only assume this is because the general consensus is that they think the hate being retracted is that referred to by the following:
I want it to be clear, at no point did I ever retarct the hate on this. I maybe hated it slightly less in that the race to wagon down the slot wasn't quite as hurried as it initially looked, but I always hated it.
The hate being retracted is the one referred to in the following:
Also hate that this vote was made without pointing out that this puts Reg one vote away from elimination
I tried rereading through that page, to work out whether or not it was confusing, but I don't see how the mistake could be made. The only posts I could be responding to are the following two between my last post and the restraction:
In post 462, DaTacoX wrote:It takes 5 to elim. That would put RegRider at 3
Also hate that this vote was made without pointing out that this puts Reg one vote away from elimination
You do realize its two not one… right?
The second of which directly quotes the latter comment.
I'm honestly not sure if I'm being trolled, if you are genuinely confused, or if you are trying to stir up a storm around my conduct based on an intentional misunderstanding. I don't see what there isn't to get, or how you could interpret these posts as retracting my dislike of the wagon on RegRider, as opposed to hating Cheeky's vote for doing something that it didn't do
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:39 pm
by MargotRosa
I understand that my gameplay has not been great this game, and if you want to kick me out, go for it. It's been a rough one, and a bit of an emotional roller coaster of a couple of weeks, but I'm back now
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:46 pm
by MargotRosa
Rereading through everything, and almost wish I could scumread cat, just so my brain could make sense of the confusion, but the more you post, and I forget Flow, the Townier you seem.
Honestly, the scummiest thing you've done is this whole confusion over this thing, which I think is really obvious, but if noone else sees that, maybe it is far more opaque than I think it is. I think a lot of your ISO has a lot of questions, and not many conclusions, but they are very good questions, so you can have a Town read and I'll go have a cry somewhere
In post 271, MargotRosa wrote:Will finish reads list tonight. I just got to the bottom of page 5, for my own future reference. These are notes I made while reading through the thread.
CheekyTeeky:
I find RQS way scummier than RVS. Random votes actually get content generating. Random questions just boosts up the post count on the early pages and ends up stalling game progress more than it generates reads. But progressed quickly to RVS, so never mind.
DaTacoX:
Jumped in with nothing post.
Prism:
Also came in to post nothing. Had reservations about random voting, which would be normal for newbs, but weird out of the gate from an SE, especially to comment that they had no reads 10. Reads more like they’re trying to look busy to Town without actually doing anything.
A lot of over justification, and grasping at straws to FoS, but seems way more like they’re trying to get someone else to start a wagon so they don’t look suss by starting wagons on a bunch of Townies. 40 56 does not read like a Town post, and ISO thus far has been chock full of psots that do very little except encourage other players to start a vote on someone else. Thus far, they are my clearest scum read
RH9:
Seemed suspect of RVS, but is a newb slot, so that’s totally fair. Also, as a note, if you’re voting to create pressure, or to get a reaction, don’t say that you’re trying to get a reaction. By saying that, the other player will know that your heart isn’t in the vote, and will know there was no pressure to begin with. Wrt PR hunting, it’s hard to say. I couldn’t find in the setup info, but is the scum PT open during the day? If so, it could indicate a conversation they had had in that thread that RH9 is TMIing in the main chat.
Flow trap:
Find it amusing that they started aggressively questioning Prism because of their aggressive questioning. 50 and 105 are Townie on vibes
Connordragon07:
104 is twigging my spider senses a bit. I don’t like posts that are that large, but have very little to say when all is said and done. Certainly seem appreciative of the PR hunt
Camel:
Town on vibes. 62 is very sweet, and very newb Townie.
Rereading this entrance post I noticed that it's all shade >.> I think I was seduced by the Prism vote.
Connor/Margot not SvS.
This is a really weird backtrack, especially given what had transpired in the game up until that point. To characterise my read list as "all shade" is very disingenuous. I had a bunch of null reads on people who had contributed very little, a null on you because the one read I had amounted to nothing a few posts later, a soft town read on Camel and Flow, and only one legitimate scum read (Prism), with some observations on other slots.
In post 446, RH9 wrote:Wait, what exactly did flow trap do, other then starting a bandwagon on RegRider, then voting Connordragon07, then after MargotRosa voted them, voted her? Did I miss anything? I'm worried that I missed something worse that they did. Wait, did flow trap vote CheekyTeeky, at one point?
The other vote they cast was what I imagine was an RVS on you at the top of the game. Easiest way to check is by clicking the big ISO letters next to a player's name on their posts in a game, and it will bring up every psot they've made in that game isolated, on one convenient page
In post 408, MargotRosa wrote:Don't like Prism, but I don't like the push on RegRider more
VOTE: Flow
Margot/Prism
Margot/Flow (catboi)
Margot/RH9
All not SvS
+ former Margot/Connor and obv Margot/me not SvS means either Margot is scum with exactly camel or more likely Margot is not scum.
I know this is probably stupid of me, but a lot of these don't make sense to me? I mean, I'm not scum, but I don't understand your reasoning, if you are saying these SvS pairings are impossible. Like, if I were in your shoes, I would as likely as not assume I was in league with one of these three and was trying to create space between myself and one of these slots.
To be clear, I'm not scum, but I don't get how you're justifying your reads on me at all?
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:01 pm
by RH9
So should I unvote? I am worried now that one of my townreads is Mafia because there needs to be two Mafia. You know maybe it would be safe to UNVOTE: MargotRosa. I want to check them first (as in check their posts and interactions).
Posted: Tue Oct 05, 2021 9:08 pm
by RH9
Actually, VOTE: MargotRosa again because I heard that appeals to emotion are scummy. The Wiki states that this is utilised by Mafia to manipulate us.
In post 231, camelCasedSnivy wrote:VOTE: camelCasedSnivy for funsies and also they a bit sus
wanna see what people think of this
What did you gain from this in the end? I don't see anything in your ISO that proves it was to gain reads rather than manipulate people with wifom by self-voting.
In post 92, RH9 wrote:I have to say that I pretty much read everybody town so far. However, I'm not sure what makes camelCasedSnivy, CheekyTeeky, or DaTacoX, mafia. I do find it confusing why camelCasedSnivy read themselves as Mafia. I have to say that these reads might change later.
Never said DTX was mafia. Cheeky probs is mafia bc of their poe and their bw and also you really took my self suspicion seriously.
This doesn't line up. You think my PoE is not scum indicative until I vote you where the PoE then suddenly becomes another reason to scumread me.