What would you rather happen? With all due respect Cook really only provided game breaking meta and disappeared when pressured. It’s so weird?? I had my doubts but it was the best option I had.In post 706, Vulture wrote:As for 704... I kind of like it, which I kind of hate. Lmao.
It's just a hard pill for me to swallow I guess. Like, from my position I'm like "yeah we need to kill people who aren't cooperating" but then seeing someone else say it makes me go "no, you don't get to do that!! You are setting up bad things!" So, you wording it like "I felt like she might flip green BUUUUT die anyways" is just... yeah.
Unsure of how to litigate that.
631 is my disagreement against town reading FB + why I’m suspiciousIn post 707, Vulture wrote:Could you summarize now why you SR Facebones or quote what you think is the like, ~slamdunk~ of why he's scum?
Can you give me something deeper against Thyn?In post 708, Vulture wrote:It also does bother me tbh that the two people I find the scummiest are voting the person I find third scummiest.
Like... if they're scum together, they're just going after easy pickings here and letting Val and Margot sling shit at one another on the side.
There's not a lot more that can be asked, which is why I said I was unsure how to litigate it. In truth, it's something that I just kind of have to shrug at and accept it happened and wonder internally the motivation.In post 709, DArby wrote:What would you rather happen? With all due respect Cook really only provided game breaking meta and disappeared when pressured. It’s so weird?? I had my doubts but it was the best option I had.In post 706, Vulture wrote:As for 704... I kind of like it, which I kind of hate. Lmao.
It's just a hard pill for me to swallow I guess. Like, from my position I'm like "yeah we need to kill people who aren't cooperating" but then seeing someone else say it makes me go "no, you don't get to do that!! You are setting up bad things!" So, you wording it like "I felt like she might flip green BUUUUT die anyways" is just... yeah.
Unsure of how to litigate that.
What do you mean by setting up bad things?
Mm.In post 710, DArby wrote:631 is my disagreement against town reading FB + why I’m suspiciousIn post 707, Vulture wrote:Could you summarize now why you SR Facebones or quote what you think is the like, ~slamdunk~ of why he's scum?
634 and a loooot of what Val said is also why, but I have no use repeating that in my own posts.
...the simplest answer to this is nothing, but when scum TMIIn post 592, Spangled wrote: @Cook I know I’m beating a dead horse here, or at least one that’s a little more hurt than it rightfully should be, and you should probably call the RSPCA either way, but what benefit would scum!me get from TMIing Facebones?
In post 634, Thynhith wrote:My issue with Galron was the lack of substance in his townread, not the read itself. Spangled at least tried to justify his own read, which makes it more legitimate in my book.In post 622, Val89 wrote:Understood.
For what it is worth, I think Facebones is looking fairly scummy following his response to questioning today.
In normal circumstances, I would be voting there after that, but I still can't shake the feeling that Spangled was TMIing FB as town D1. Thyn tells me he considers Spangles' read to be legitimate, and it's a playstyle thing, but I found that a little unsatisfying given I noticed he took issue at Galron giving a town read on Roden when Rodens' ISO at the time was more comprehensive than FBs.
We are waiting to hear from Roden; I'll see if Spangle's answers can help me resolve the problem I am having, and I think we need to hear a little more from Thyn as to where he stands on issue of Facebones, because I am still struggling to move past a null read there - I've read through the ISO again tonight and still nothing is jumping out in either direction.
As for FB, let me put it this way: take how scummy I am, and FB is scummier than that. This post in particular:
Spoiler:
@Facebones
Here you're trying to justify yourself lurking D1. Do you really expect us to believe that was due to your "preference"? I've metaread you. In your games you make over 25 posts D1. And have you gleaned a single thing from lurking all of D1? Nada, you're still rereading. You're not even keeping up to the game. Oh and by the way, quoting snippets in Post 587 and 599 and responding doesn't make you any townier. You have no reads, you have no opinions. If "it's easier to class people as either town or scum from their interactions with other players," you've classed not a single player.
"I'm here to answer all questions in order to clear up confusion you may have about my alignment"
is such a desperate sentence. Townies know they are town. They don't clear up confusion weakly, they proclaim their towniness openly. This is just optics. You don't even sound convinced you are town, because you're not.
I admire your boldness in attempting to convince us your scumlurking was a legit strat, but I'm going to have to VOTE: Facebones
FB is at E-2, curious what he says before we elim him.
In post 664, Thynhith wrote:Just a coincidence you're scumreading the guys on your wagon, eh?In post 641, Facebones wrote:TOWN: Spangled (still a bit sus of the super early town read of me and going along with Cook's strat, but does seem to be trying to spark conversation (which is NAI, I know, but to me it doesn't feel forced). I do have similar concerns with DArby as he outlined in 213. Also he stands by his thoughts and doesn't seem to be wishy washy and easily swayed even if those thoughts aren't broadly accepted and go against the grain)
Val: (one of the same reason as Spangled (albeit in a more accusatory manner)- he's asking people questions and genuinely seems to be trying to solve this. His interrogation of me comes across as a genuine townie)
NULL: Thynhith, Roden
SCUM: Margot (for putting forth a decent case on Cook and essentially at the point of no return backtracking and started TR-ing her for reasons still unbeknownst to me)
DArby (due to his constant pushing to try and secure the Cook elim, I've still got my beliefs he's trying to line up townies)
Well since you scumread Darby for pushing Cook's wagon, did Val not do the same, and arguably more aggressively? Yet you're townreading him. Margot backtracked, and she was correct in reading Cook as town. Do you think that was TMI coming from scum?
Your readlist comes across as extremely shallow.This post is where Spangled draws attention to Galron crumbing to draw the NK. I'm assuming you must have read it while casing Spangled. Imo it was a scumplay drawing attention to the reason for their own kill - what did you think of it?In post 545, Spangled wrote:just, sorry, haven’t read the last two pages, just wanted to say that quickly
his crumbs — or one of them, at least — were so obvious that I was pretty sure he wasn’t a PR, just either bad scum setting up a fakeclaim or a VT trying to draw the scum shot
what a play! what a fellow!
that’s the thing I deliberated on talking about before D1 end, btw, but I decided (rightly) it’d be better to wait, just in case hewasin fact a PR, because to out him like that would be a wee bit embarrassing heh
Compared to these, which I feel are a lot more... unsure? Unwilling to really press down hard.In post 683, Thynhith wrote:What makes FB null for you? He's so blatantly scum, we have to lim him. Unless you can offer a better alternative, and I don't see how I'm scummier than he is? I'm scumreading him harder than I scumread Cook, he's lurked through D1 and barely seems motivated. His posts have nothing to show from reading our iso and he seems hellbent on not helping us at all. If you could offer a better alternative I'm happy to listen to you. Btw, you're missing spangled from your list.In post 681, MargotRosa wrote:I feel more confident town reading DArby. I feel more confident scum reading Val. Roden is slipping into scum territory quickly. FB is Null. Thyn is still likely scum. I don't remember who the seventh slot is lol
VOTE: Thyn
I get where you're coming from on Val and Roden, but do you think them scummier than FB?
In post 233, Thynhith wrote:Galron wrote:I'm flip flopping on Spangled.In post 223, Galron wrote:Val89's catchup posts, if that's what they are, underwhelm me. Cook's strategy isn't going to be implemented, and while it's fine to talk about players' reactions to the proposal, focusing on the substance of the strategy is futile, and I believe of little value when it comes to reads. (Maybe other than Cook's, but I haven't seen it yet)Quite frankly, they're not any more underwhelming than your posts. There's no issue with you being "terse and dispassionate," but nearly all your posts lack substance. You've posted many one-liners that add nothing of value, and your responses to questions seem to be dodging an answer, rather than an answer proper. I'd expect town to be sharing views and analyzing posts, not giving off vague impression reads. All anti-town. Would love to see some reasons for your Spangled read?In post 220, Galron wrote:Terse and dispassionate is actually a good description of me, Spangled. Unless I get a couple of drinks in me
pedit: I love how you're sheeping Val
Spoiler:
In post 302, Thynhith wrote:Sorry I've been out of town (pardon the pun) for the last few days, but I have reread or skimmed the entirety of D1 so far.
"Spangled, on the other hand is much more straightforward, and everything else aside, if they aren't the pair; and I have to decide if I am in a newbie game where mafia is trying to scam us with a ridiculous display of open-wolfing, or a more traditional nervous newbscum just slipping here and there slightly, and I think that being honest with myself I have to conclude the latter as more probable."
Val the issue I have here is I think you're tunneling too hard. You're picking up on lots of small "tells" here and there and it looks like a plausible newbscum. I see much of this attributed to personal playstyle. Which posts do you think have a nervous tone to them? His constant questioning seems like his choice, rather than aiming to misdirect town. I would say he is scumleaning at most, and certainly more pro-town than Galron. Both of them I wouldn't lim D1.
My preference for D1 would be Cook, on account of the questionable strat she pushed. I'm not willing to support any wagon yet tho - I feel there's a scum we're not seeing
In post 303, Thynhith wrote:@Val can I get your opinion on the possibility of scum!Darby?
I'm starting to sound like spangled now, aren't I?
Yeah I've pretty much decided now - barring anything unexpectedly damning, my top preference is Cook. VOTE: Cook
Val I dislike how you initially zoned in on her strat, and I'm not comfortable using that alone, but it's her other anti-town behaviour that makes scum!Cook much more likely (periodic lurking, no substance, refusal to cooperate, etc)
In post 309, Thynhith wrote:Phew I was not expecting a full read list, but I'll take it. Fairly reassuring that you have similar reads to me (or maybe too reassuring). I considered Roden and Darby to be townleaning, though I don't have your prior experience with them to say that with as much confidence. Mainly because they the ones pushing people and contributing discussion, consistently. As for Facebones and Margot, I still consider them both null, who lack enough content for me to be sure. Margot's interaction with Cook seemed genuine enough, so I don't think her misreads make her scumleaning. Galron I consider scumleaning, and I'm not sure I could justify reading him as town with such blatantly anti-town behavior. "make it clear HE is following and thinking in the same directions I am, like and 295" is rather ironic because he immediately follows 295 with..showing he missed something as important as a replacement.
Anyways, those are my thoughts. Already said how Spangled is too ambiguous to lim now. I'm very curious about how Cook will flip, and about who gets NKd.
In post 518, Thynhith wrote:VOTE: Val would like to know as well. In any case, this makes me townlean Spangled. Val's primary scumreads were Cook and Spangled. If Val is scum, Spangled is unlikely to be as well. If Val was town and pushing scum!spangled then scum would take out Val instead, so perhaps Val you were pushing a town!spangled D1?In post 515, DArby wrote:On one hand we still have both scum but on the other we have both power roles.
VOTE: Val
Why are you still alive?
Why do you think scum didn't NK you?
In post 528, Thynhith wrote:In post 489, Galron wrote:I want to see this flip. But it's time for me to leave work.
Funny people mentioning Facebones because there's something about that slot that doesn't sit right and I wanted to get deeper into it.And also:In post 490, Galron wrote:But there were a couple of townie things from Facebones as well, like when he pushed back at me.
"Spangled I'm back and forth on. Facebones leaning scum. Val leaning scum (very lightly bc of little content and I don't remember what the predecessor did)"
These are pretty much his final reads. He probably ends up townreading Val more towards EoD (see above post)
I believe he also said Margot was null, though his read may have changed.
It's really a shame he never gave much reasoning for these..
pedit: Ah interesting take by Galron. Given how Cook flipped, I do wonder if Val was tunneling her for towncred
In post 532, Thynhith wrote:Ok, lets assume the NK was intentional (even tho it likely wasn't). What are our logical conclusions?
Probably that Spangled felt pressured by Galron, or whoever scum are, they're distanced from Galron, interaction-wise. Spangled was the only one Galron was really scumreading/pressuring.
Since we know the NK was likely intentional, it's possible scum are trying to throw shade on spangled, or are really someone Galron's townread. By Galron flipping green, those townread would get towncred.
Who benefits from shade on spangled? Val, who was tunneling him and pushing for his elim D1. There's no one Galron was really townreading.
I'm falling down the wifom rabbit hole so fast, remind me not to do this again. ^^The above is all speculation, please take none of it as my opinion
In post 539, Thynhith wrote:For whatever reason? Or just your gut feeling? I note that you scumread both Darby and Galron for large amounts of filler. Now Galron's flipped green, still confident about your Darby read?In post 537, MargotRosa wrote:I still don't like Darby.
In post 540, Thynhith wrote:Tbh both of you guys "feel" town to me, it's mainly FB/Roden I'm concerned with
In post 560, Thynhith wrote:In post 557, Val89 wrote:Amen. Galrons last words were, refering to me, were "Maybe you'll be protected tonight, if that's where you're going."In post 544, Spangled wrote:Val’s still alive because scum killed Galron for crumbing.
I am inclinded to treat with suspicion anyone who is advancing theories as to why Galron was selected as the NK without acknoledging that, given what was said in twilight, scum would be forced to consider the possibility they wouldn't be able to take a shot a me without going through Galron first. It looks he basically threw himself in the path of the bullet like a secret service agent, and I am asking myself why some slots are speculating on Galrons reads, etc, and are pretending they didn't see that he was crumbing pretty hard.I must admit the possibility of his last words being a crumb totally went over my head. It does make sense in hindsight, and far better explanation than newbscum or endless wifom.In post 493, Galron wrote: Maybe you'll be protected tonight, if that's where you're going.
"pretending they didn't see that he was crumbing pretty hard" - it may be obvious for you but not half as much for not half as experienced players.
I also hate this post, for the record.In post 561, Thynhith wrote:I'm not quite sure I understand this. I'd be in favour of limming FB today, and considering Spangled for D3. Behaviour-wise, there is a much stronger argument to be made for scum!FB and with spangled's activeness, it will be easy to pick out any scumplays. You're saying you wouldn't get any information if FB flipped first, but why is that? If he flipped green that would exonerate spangled's "dodgy" read and we'll have rid ourselves of the high chance of scum!FB. If he flipped red we'll get rid of scum, I'm not sure what we have to lose here.In post 558, Val89 wrote: I'm so far in the camp that it isn't enough to justify that read that I consider that response suspicious in itself, but I acknowledge that other people do look for different things, and have different thresholds, when making their reads. As such, I would feel happier if other players could at least give some indication as to where they fall on that scale.
It is important because I think that a scum!Spangled was TMIing Facebones as town there, rather than TRing his buddy, so I wouldn't support a Facebones wagon unless and until I saw a Spangled flip - I don't think I get any information from the other way around. If, one the other hand, I can be convinced that I might be wrong on this issue, and that TR was in the reasonable range of responses to that ISO, then the possibility of a town!Spangled changes that calculus.
that’s trueIn post 713, Vulture wrote:...the simplest answer to this is nothing, but when scum TMIIn post 592, Spangled wrote: @Cook I know I’m beating a dead horse here, or at least one that’s a little more hurt than it rightfully should be, and you should probably call the RSPCA either way, but what benefit would scum!me get from TMIing Facebones?they don't mean to do it.