Okay, so, with regard to MafMen, buckle up, it's going to be a bit long (don't have time to wait for implosion anymore, i've decided)
His scum games on this forum are all old, there's a 3-year playing gap like I said, but there was a fairly clear pattern in his scum games from prior to that break. For refrence, the games are:
Newbie 1869
Micro 813
Mini 2014
So, in all of these games, he exhibits a tendency toward overconfident TMI townreads on people, while generally lacking the ability or willingness to fake scumreads and make cases on people. Kind of a typical pattern amongst players who don't have much experience playing scum. Overall I would say his demeanor in those games is kind of meek, except for maybe some flashes of defensiveness when pushed, he was overall unwilling to pick fights with people and push on townies.
Now, in 3 years a lot can change, but playing scum is hard and I'd sort of expect him to be more rusty/out of touch from not having played n a while, rather than having hit a new level (having taken a long break myself, I felt significant rust in my first games when I was playing scum after that hiatus).
You could say that maybe he's exhibiting that tendency toward TMI townreads in his early posting in this game, with stuff like
49's "greeting is probtown",
52's read on pseudoaristotle,
61's "im not getting scumpings from anyone", and calling his wagon pure in
72. But, where it differs, I think is what comes after that.
(as an aside, I like the comment in
58 about trying to move the game forward, because again in his old games mafmen struck me as kind of a lazy scum player who'd be fairly content with a game being inactive as it would mean less pressure on him to post)
What mafmen does, attacking val for being "gross and disingenuous" in
142, is just wildly outside his established scumrange, val is a very verbose player who's a pain in the butt to argue with, most scum see that type of player and simply steer clear of them, but he doesn't do that, he continues to press at val, accusing him of misrepresenting greeting in
147, the whole explanation of what he's doing in
162 reads super genuine where he's explaining his goals and getting annoyed at val for overcomplicating things in their argument, I think town is more likely to have feelings like someoneis making things difficult, it's harder when you know the person you're arguing against is arguing sincerely. It's also a bit of an empathy read because I'm feeling how manipulative and disingenuous val is being in his arguments.
reaction to greeting threatenin to selfhammer in
210/
211 feels believable too, the kind of thing that can be faked but i think in particular the disappointment and confusion in the second post where the person he was defending says something he thinks is antitown reads believable to me and he starts trying to lecture him to set him on the right path
The de-escalation in
261 I also believe, like he got an answer at that time that satisfied him, but then the continued incredulity in
269, I basically agreed entirely at the time with the reasoning here that Greeting's "VT slip" wasn't a meaningful scumtell of any sort
but I think the way he keeps trying to argue with/persuade val even after unvoting him is towny - for most mafia I think if they decide they're done pushing someone, they leave them alone, but him continuing to argue with Val in
288 and
296 (among other posts) shows a legitimate desire to try to persuade him to his view - most mafia don't bother with this, I don't think it's close to MafMen's range at all - I felt like him getting into that argument might have been a scum tactic at the start of the day but reading it over again, he's really trying to get his view across, not just argue for no reason
in
317 he clarifies he doesn't view Val as town, but I think even there the way he's arguing with val but not necessarily pushing him shows a solving intent
Even though it was wrong I don't really hate the obsrvation on Thyn in
318, I can see town having a problem with that post, I like that he's attacking something specific he fnds scummy rather than just vaguely calling thyn wolfy.
Even the re-eval on me in
333 makes sense, I guess, looks like he got pointed at me and actually reread my posts and found them lack -
this is notable, because, again, as I said, MafMen tended to be very overconfident in his TMI townreads in his old scum games, and rarely wavered on them
- here he re-evals on both Thyn and me when we're doing things he doesn't like, and he even waves on Greeting - he doesn't display an absolute certainty that Greeting is town, just that the reasoning he was being attacked for wasn't good.
I'm incredibly annoyed by him deciding in
446 my reaction to getting fake guiltied was bad, as I've already said, but regardless I
can
see town thinking that and reacting the way he did to it.
granted he's seemingly flinging stones at EVERYONE, like in
464 and
521, which COULD be scum keeping heir options open, but I feel like that's wildly out of line with his past scum meta - I'd be surprised if he went the opposite direction and went the route of blindly attacking almost everyone to make them look bad, I think it's more likely coming from a paranoid townie mindset. (this probably the one part of his ISO where I could see it being someone playing a good scumgame, I just have to trust that my meta-eval is correct)
And again, the whole sequence where he asks me about my old game in
526, followed with the unvote to give me "room to breathe" in
530, only to start doubting himself in
532 reads super organic, it's a sequence very few scum players think to fake - maybe they take their foot off the gas and say they're reconsidering me, but they do it all in the same post, it'd be constructed, it woudn't get out in bits and pieces as the gears are turning in his head
I think on overall play and comparisons with his past scumgames, MafMen is very likely town and shouldn't be voted out this game.