Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[scamper]

1. ad hominem
2. You do understand that it looks intentional on your part by a large margin right? At least fault in tour court here. I understand some dissonance from perhaps one style of posting, but its occurred so numerously at this point with three different people with three different types of writing and you still seem to be getting arguments wrong.

It's not a good look. Lack of effort, perspective, or good intent feels almost guarenteed here

i have been trying to be pretty understanding. it's not my fault that any time you're criticized you complain and change arguments

[Datisi]

town - {ausuka, arii, scamper}
town??? - {xayah}
ehh... - {donempire, coral}
sus - {meg, galron}

all tiers are from townier to less townie

VOTE: galron

should be y-2? idk

ik he said he's off weekend but the fact that most active people feel lijke town right now is making me feel more like it's scum in lurkers, not less

i sleep

[MegAzumarill]

1. ad hominem
2. You do understand that it looks intentional on your part by a large margin right? At least fault in tour court here. I understand some dissonance from perhaps one style of posting, but its occurred so numerously at this point with three different people with three different types of writing and you still seem to be getting arguments wrong.

It's not a good look. Lack of effort, perspective, or good intent feels almost guarenteed here

i have been trying to be pretty understanding. it's not my fault that any time you're criticized you complain and change arguments

Its not my fault you critize points im not making.
Or that you seem to think any opinions that you don't share are objectively false.

[scamper]

i dont actually know how to explain this without meta, which i have been trying to avoid

but this is town!ari, i have seen town!ari act in exactly this way on multiple occasions. ari cares too much and she gets worked up about the game and blows up when she thinks someone is playing badly. none of the way she's played this game is how she plays as scum

And yet you are acting like this should be obvious public knowledge? That's my impression from how you have treated this issue with Done and me.

If you are basing this off of personal experience it seems both unfair and unlikely you would try and assume that same kind of conclusion could be made by another.

this is just disingenuous, although i don't think it's hard to see ari as town even without meta, i was telling you were wrong not that you should be able to identify her as town

[MegAzumarill]

What do you think of the situation with me and ari?

i think ari has been transparently blatantly town since fairly early and has only gotten more so since blowing up in your face. if you're unnable to see that it's either due to a total lack of perspective or purposeful obtuseness

[scamper]

1. ad hominem
2. You do understand that it looks intentional on your part by a large margin right? At least fault in tour court here. I understand some dissonance from perhaps one style of posting, but its occurred so numerously at this point with three different people with three different types of writing and you still seem to be getting arguments wrong.

It's not a good look. Lack of effort, perspective, or good intent feels almost guarenteed here

i have been trying to be pretty understanding. it's not my fault that any time you're criticized you complain and change arguments

Its not my fault you critize points im not making.
Or that you seem to think any opinions that you don't share are objectively false.

if theres anyone who is treating opinions they dont share as objectively false, its you

multiple people tell you your off base and your reasoning is flawed and you ignore everuything they say and complain that's not what you meant and get evasive, you treat every criticism as invalid, you dont even respiond to half the things that are said against you. if you're town you're one of the most solipsistic players i have ever had to deal with

[scamper]

What do you think of the situation with me and ari?

i think ari has been transparently blatantly town since fairly early and has only gotten more so since blowing up in your face. if you're unnable to see that it's either due to a total lack of perspective or purposeful obtuseness

at that point, yes

[scamper]

its not solely the emotions, to be clear: at tha point ari went into an exhaustive logical critique of everything that was terrible about your argument for her being scum

you evaded ever actually addressing it and since she repped out you have an excuse to ignore it while arguing that her getting emotional is not town-indicative

this, like most of your play, shows an aversion to providing any actual substance

[scamper]

like have you even put any basic strategic thought into why scum!me decides to tunnel town!ausuka right away from page one?

(1) What if there is a rolecop in the game that can clear Ausuka? What if there's literally any role interaction at all? How does scum me know the setup from the get go?

(2) Why target someone on claim alone? It locks the trajectory without any consideration of play - do you think I expend thread control to force the issue? Where is the motive for locking the trajectory into hardpush if Ausuka town hasn't done anything susp? why not just let someone else take the fall?

(3) Why target with an

associative

right away? If Ausuka/Dats are T/T doesn't this lock a influential vote from flipping my way? If any scum flips outside the pair doesn't this shoot my theory in the foot?

(4) Who the fuck am I even trying to persuade to vote Ausuka? Where is the manipulation happening? If it's some weird invisible manipulation to set up for Day 2, why the fuck would I even spend energy on setting it up when I don't even have a Day One Target? Is Scum!Me supposed to be supremely confident I and my scum partner will both not be able to be limmed therefore I'm focussing all my energy on day two?

(5) why do I bop Ausuka and be ok with being elimmed today ? how does that even make sense for scum me to do?

(6) who am I even manipulating to vote for Ausuka? What is the persuasive angle I am pursuing? How does it work?

(7) If everything above is some garbage wifom plot and I'm doing refuge in Audacity, what's the overarching goal? To escape elim today? I can just escape elim by not doing shit, it's not like this town is doing shit anyway.

(8) Why does any of what I'm doing necessarily have to come from Scum!me? Is it not in the interest of Town!Me to push something in a game state that is static?

:/

Ok first I dont really understand what you mean with the 6 days thing. The game hasn't even lasted 6 days.

For that matter I don't understand why you seem so caught up in the fact I scumread you. You seem frustrated because you don't think my reasonings are valid but I disagree. Disagreemwnts are common in mafia. You should know this. It feels like a weird thing to blow up over.

Like we are playing a game. You are going to be scumread sometimes. Why are you upset? I don't make heads or tails why you seem upset.

It's baffling.

I'll try to pursue other alleys for the time being and let you cool down but my read on your slot hasn't changed signifigantly.

ari hits you with a barrage of questions here, and rather than actually seeking to justify anything you are saying, you play the card of "whoa calm down you're so frustrated" and change the subject to me to avoid actually answering anything she said

[scamper]

ari isn't here, so i'm going to bring it up again for her: how you you defend your scum case against her from the points she made, you can't just go mad = scum

[scamper]

actually stand up for the arguments you are making for once rather than being evasive

[MegAzumarill]

1. ad hominem
2. You do understand that it looks intentional on your part by a large margin right? At least fault in tour court here. I understand some dissonance from perhaps one style of posting, but its occurred so numerously at this point with three different people with three different types of writing and you still seem to be getting arguments wrong.

It's not a good look. Lack of effort, perspective, or good intent feels almost guarenteed here

i have been trying to be pretty understanding. it's not my fault that any time you're criticized you complain and change arguments

Its not my fault you critize points im not making.
Or that you seem to think any opinions that you don't share are objectively false.

if theres anyone who is treating opinions they dont share as objectively false, its you

multiple people tell you your off base and your reasoning is flawed and you ignore everuything they say and complain that's not what you meant and get evasive, you treat every criticism as invalid, you dont even respiond to half the things that are said against you. if you're town you're one of the most solipsistic players i have ever had to deal with

Saying an argument is flawed or off base without evidence isn't really saying anything.

If you attack an argument I didn't make what is wrong with pointing it out?

[MegAzumarill]

actually stand up for the arguments you are making for once rather than being evasive

Address my actual arguments then.

[scamper]

the more i read 529, the more slimy it sounds

[scamper]

actually stand up for the arguments you are making for once rather than being evasive

Address my actual arguments then.

you literally won't make any actual arguments about me an when i asked you ran away

[scamper]

i mean the biggest point against me you've tried to make in the last few pages is i'm "purposefully misconstruing things", which is just flat out untrue, there is really not much more to say to that

[scamper]

what am i even supposed to say to that, exactly?

[MegAzumarill]

like have you even put any basic strategic thought into why scum!me decides to tunnel town!ausuka right away from page one?

(1) What if there is a rolecop in the game that can clear Ausuka? What if there's literally any role interaction at all? How does scum me know the setup from the get go?

(2) Why target someone on claim alone? It locks the trajectory without any consideration of play - do you think I expend thread control to force the issue? Where is the motive for locking the trajectory into hardpush if Ausuka town hasn't done anything susp? why not just let someone else take the fall?

(3) Why target with an

associative

right away? If Ausuka/Dats are T/T doesn't this lock a influential vote from flipping my way? If any scum flips outside the pair doesn't this shoot my theory in the foot?

(4) Who the fuck am I even trying to persuade to vote Ausuka? Where is the manipulation happening? If it's some weird invisible manipulation to set up for Day 2, why the fuck would I even spend energy on setting it up when I don't even have a Day One Target? Is Scum!Me supposed to be supremely confident I and my scum partner will both not be able to be limmed therefore I'm focussing all my energy on day two?

(5) why do I bop Ausuka and be ok with being elimmed today ? how does that even make sense for scum me to do?

(6) who am I even manipulating to vote for Ausuka? What is the persuasive angle I am pursuing? How does it work?

(7) If everything above is some garbage wifom plot and I'm doing refuge in Audacity, what's the overarching goal? To escape elim today? I can just escape elim by not doing shit, it's not like this town is doing shit anyway.

(8) Why does any of what I'm doing necessarily have to come from Scum!me? Is it not in the interest of Town!Me to push something in a game state that is static?

:/

Ok first I dont really understand what you mean with the 6 days thing. The game hasn't even lasted 6 days.

For that matter I don't understand why you seem so caught up in the fact I scumread you. You seem frustrated because you don't think my reasonings are valid but I disagree. Disagreemwnts are common in mafia. You should know this. It feels like a weird thing to blow up over.

Like we are playing a game. You are going to be scumread sometimes. Why are you upset? I don't make heads or tails why you seem upset.

It's baffling.

I'll try to pursue other alleys for the time being and let you cool down but my read on your slot hasn't changed signifigantly.

ari hits you with a barrage of questions here, and rather than actually seeking to justify anything you are saying, you play the card of "whoa calm down you're so frustrated" and change the subject to me to avoid actually answering anything she said

I've said this before, but I'll elaborate.

1. It is not my job to explain every single choice someone makes. There are multitiudes of answers to each of these points.

2. If town!Ari would do something, scum!Ari can do that to emulate. That's why it's pointless to try and explain anything. If there's a reason for town!Ari to do it, there's a rwason for scum!Ari to.

3. Scum play isn't optimal. Scum often do things that put them in negative situations, and not all descisions are strategically calculated. (Especially well)

4. Having a laundry list of reasons you wouldn't do something as scum implies time thinking about the choice town just wouldn't. Do you closely consider the strategic implications of every move you make IF you are scum when in actuality you are town. No that's dumb.

5. Do you think any forward progress was being made at the time this occured? I pretty clearly dropped it because it surmounted to a slapfight at that time. No meaningful conversation was had.

[MegAzumarill]

i mean the biggest point against me you've tried to make in the last few pages is i'm "purposefully misconstruing things", which is just flat out untrue, there is really not much more to say to that

There are plenty of people that have vocalized that you have been doing such things. Datisi, done and myself at least.
You still deny it.

If it was a mistake you wouldn't double down and certainly not triple down.

[scamper]

so your answers are anything can do anything, if town can do something scum can do it as well, no one should ever explain anything, arguing anythign is pointless, ari arguing she wouldn't do something as scum is scummy, and you don't have to answer justifying your read because it won't make "forward progress"

why do you even play tis game if that's the stuff that you believe? lie what i'm getting here is that you seem to think all argumentation and discussion is useless, you clearly don't care to actually understand or consider the perspective of anyone else, you're locked in your own little world where nothing anyone says matters because scum can do it too

you will accuse me of strawmanning you for this but i really do not care

[MegAzumarill]

You are actively harming the flow of information through the town while being incredibly (and intentionally) vague about your own opinions.

You explicitly ignore things that have been said in objective ways. As if there is room for interpretation. There isn't a lot of the time. You put words in others' mouths.

That is clearly observable from anyone that is not you.

And you question why I scumread you.

[scamper]

i mean the biggest point against me you've tried to make in the last few pages is i'm "purposefully misconstruing things", which is just flat out untrue, there is really not much more to say to that

There are plenty of people that have vocalized that you have been doing such things. Datisi, done and myself at least.
You still deny it.

If it was a mistake you wouldn't double down and certainly not triple down.

yes, because i am not misconstruing anyone on purpose. why would i ever ADMIT to doing that, that is just insane

[MegAzumarill]

so your answers are anything can do anything, if town can do something scum can do it as well, no one should ever explain anything, arguing anythign is pointless, ari arguing she wouldn't do something as scum is scummy, and you don't have to answer justifying your read because it won't make "forward progress"

why do you even play tis game if that's the stuff that you believe? lie what i'm getting here is that you seem to think all argumentation and discussion is useless, you clearly don't care to actually understand or consider the perspective of anyone else, you're locked in your own little world where nothing anyone says matters because scum can do it too

you will accuse me of strawmanning you for this but i really do not care

classic scamper
now where'd I put my wiki link
you should read the page sometime

[scamper]

You are actively harming the flow of information through the town while being incredibly (and intentionally) vague about your own opinions.

You explicitly ignore things that have been said in objective ways. As if there is room for interpretation. There isn't a lot of the time. You put words in others' mouths.

That is clearly observable from anyone that is not you.

And you question why I scumread you.

i have literally not been vague or harming the flow of information at all, if anyone is doing that here it is you

[scamper]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: meg