Mafiascum.net

In post 689, Fuchs~ wrote:Childs, clark was already hammered

And whose fault is that?

I made it quite clear not to vote Clark.

I made it quite clear I had more to say.

I made it quite clear that I was limited in my availability at the time to explain myself--and right now is the first time I have had that ability.

So don't fucking pretend that this is in any way shape or form anything but YOUR fault. (Collective you, every voter on the wagon.)

WHEN Clark flips town jailkeeper and I die immediately after that, I suppose I should tell you for the future that I lied about having my only gate be Novice, there's another gate beyond that. A quite severe one actually but I wasn't gonna out that without reason. (It's just that now that I'm a guaranteed N1 death I have no choice but to since it won't flip when I die.)

You’ve already argued your vig shot is negative utility and you’re novice, in what world are you a guaranteed kill? Confused.

In post 695, Fuchs~ wrote:It is kind of silly to see you simultaneously argue that jailkeeper + vigilante is the most balanced possible combo, while also arguing that you have a full proof game plan to break the game open by combining those two roles.

The plan falls apart if scum can pull off a successful assimilation, I have made that clear.

The assimilation mechanic is meant to balance the JK+Vig combo. (That, plus the extra gate I had which I wasn't going to needlessly reveal.)

Denying the scum the assimilation mechanic being viable means that we break the game by combining the two, because the game isn't going to be designed for the assimilation mechanic to be unviable, the game is going to be designed for the assimilation mechanic to be assumed to be actively used.

So if we deny the scum the assimilation mechanic, then the JK+Vig combo that would otherwise be countered by the assimilation mechanic, suddenly gets elevated from "scum can counter this" to "scum have no counterplay to this".

An easy way of explaining this:
A cop-doc combo for the town can be balanced by a scum roleblocker.
Eliminate the scum roleblocker D1 tho and then the scum are left with no counter against follow-the-cop.

Same principle here.
A Vig-JK combo is balanced by the assimilation mechanic as a counter.
Eliminate scum's ability to use it, and then the scum are left with no counter against the Vig-JK combo.

Which is why the wagon is fucking atrocious because y'all should've seen the mechanical advantage of this.

In post 700, Childs~ wrote:

In post 689, Fuchs~ wrote:Childs, clark was already hammered

And whose fault is that?

I made it quite clear not to vote Clark.

I made it quite clear I had more to say.

I made it quite clear that I was limited in my availability at the time to explain myself--and right now is the first time I have had that ability.

So don't fucking pretend that this is in any way shape or form anything but YOUR fault. (Collective you, every voter on the wagon.)

WHEN Clark flips town jailkeeper and I die immediately after that, I suppose I should tell you for the future that I lied about having my only gate be Novice, there's another gate beyond that. A quite severe one actually but I wasn't gonna out that without reason. (It's just that now that I'm a guaranteed N1 death I have no choice but to since it won't flip when I die.)

I am not blaming anyone, because I wanted it to happen. I actively asked for a hammer to happen, because nothing was happening in the thread for over 24 hours.

But I do think that it is silly for you to be mad that you said "Give me time to not be on mobile and I can engage better," then not check back for well over a day and a half, and be mad that the entire thread did not sit around and do nothing while you were gone.

In post 701, Nauls~ wrote:You’ve already argued your vig shot is negative utility and you’re novice, in what world are you a guaranteed kill? Confused.

Because power roles cannot be scum, and the scum now have free reign to kill any player without a protective because you just fucking eliminated the only town protective in the game and thus the scum can freely kill any claimed PR to prevent the town any conftown voices.

Since scum don't have any power roles, they can't prevent me from using my role.

Yes, I believe it to be mostly negative utility to use it, because of the drawbacks involved.

But I am still conftown if I actually DO use it, and conftown represents a threat.

That aside from the fact that I am a replacement, and I'm not going to let you fucking forget about the D1 wagon and how it is guaranteed to have scum on it, probably multiple.

I’m still just perplexed as to how claiming JK clears Clark in your eyes, that’s carrying so much weight in your entire perspective

In post 703, Fuchs~ wrote:But I do think that it is silly for you to be mad that you said "Give me time to not be on mobile and I can engage better," then not check back for well over a day and a half, and be mad that the entire thread did not sit around and do nothing while you were gone.

That's the amount of time it took me to not be on mobile. And we had the time before deadline to wait.

I was under a prod timer--it took less than a prod timer's worth of time for me to return to the game thread and not be on mobile.

That's plenty acceptable in any game; don't fucking pretend it wasn't.

Yes I have the right to be mad--there's a difference between "not sitting around and do nothing" and fucking hammering to end the day, while waiting.

When the amount of time was unavoidable,
And still under the length of a prod timer,
And we had enough time on the deadline clock.

All of these meant that the rush to hammer is something I can and WILL call out.
It may or may not be scum-driven but it is pro-scum regardless. So town SHOULD be fucking ashamed, and acknowledge how pro-scum it was to not fucking wait.

In post 705, Nauls~ wrote:I’m still just perplexed as to how claiming JK clears Clark in your eyes, that’s carrying so much weight in your entire perspective

Because of knowing my role and what is needed to make the game balanced and less swingy, jailkeeper was guaranteed to be a real role.

In post 707, Childs~ wrote:

In post 705, Nauls~ wrote:I’m still just perplexed as to how claiming JK clears Clark in your eyes, that’s carrying so much weight in your entire perspective

Because of knowing my role and what is needed to make the game balanced and less swingy, jailkeeper was guaranteed to be a real role.

I aspire to one day be as self-assured as you are.

In post 686, Childs~ wrote:Why never fire when I can have a jailkeeper block me or target my target to effectively produce the same result?

From my POV there's observably no difference between 'never firing' and 'Clarke jailkeeping you indefinitely' and 'both of you being scum and lying about these roles'

Also I'm not a fan of any plan that reequires several nights to work out - it ties up the PR's and leaves the original issue unresolved for way too long

In post 687, Childs~ wrote:I have made it clear that Clark is not allowed any excuses in deviating from the plan--protection on me, always, no WIFOMing it. That makes any deviation impossible to justify.

Unless I missed it, I don't think Clarke even acknowledged your plan or said they would go along with it

In post 697, Childs~ wrote:

In post 673, MacReady~ wrote:I think there's a fair amount of vca to do in the scum-Clarke world, but that should wait for tomorrow

And in a town-Clark world?

What do we gain then?

For that matter, serious question:

If Clark is scum, where the fuck is the counterwagon to them?

I haven't read the entire game so I haven't seen it all--but from what I've seen it has been Clark at 3-5 votes the entire game and the largest wagons outside of Clark at 2 votes.

This has occured to me, and if Clarke is scum I think the rest of the scumteam are relatively low-influence

I just don't see how on play town-Clarke doesn't, like, respond to anything that's been discussed since they claimed. This doesn't seem to be an activity thing ...

Fwiw if Childs 2.0 had been here when Clarke claimed I think I would be viewing this as the two of them being scum together

In post 700, Childs~ wrote:WHEN Clark flips town jailkeeper and I die immediately after that, I suppose I should tell you for the future that I lied about having my only gate be Novice, there's another gate beyond that. A quite severe one actually but I wasn't gonna out that without reason. (It's just that now that I'm a guaranteed N1 death I have no choice but to since it won't flip when I die.)

Ok so you're being vague and not telling the whole story about a mechanica thing that you're using to try to save another slot from a mechanics POV?

In post 706, Childs~ wrote:I was under a prod timer--it took less than a prod timer's worth of time for me to return to the game thread and not be on mobile.

That's plenty acceptable in any game; don't fucking pretend it wasn't.

Yes I have the right to be mad

To be clear, I was not accusing you of being gone too long. I am pro-prioritze your life outside mafia.

Just, also, you seem to think I should feel bad, and I just don't feel bad about not wanting to sit around in a game. Not my idea of a fun time, and I don't feel like letting thread apathy set in is very pro-town.

Pictured below, my own apathy setting in.

In post 552, Clark~ wrote:

In post 544, Childs~ wrote:Clark, are you an ungated Jailkeeper?

As in, can act N1?

Yes, I can act N1

This is the grand totality of them acknowledging anything abt mechanics

To be fair, they also haven't really posted since then, but there's been no indication they're busy irl, will post soon, etc

We don't even know if they are planning on going along with said plan

I'm also somewhat baffled how town sees all this activity around their slot and just ignores it

Okay yeah Fuchs is just town

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Humanity 2

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deadline for alt guesses is end of night 1 btw

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Despair

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I'm a 1-shot Cop, and I have a guilty.

VOTE: Windows

For anyone wondering, that is partly why I was playing kind of quietly on Day 1. I didn't wanna risk being widely townread and getting assimilated.

In post 635, Palmer~ wrote:623 is... interesting.

Which is also why I reacted this way to petapan's explanation.

If we believe Childs to be a novice vigilante and to still be human, I am not entirely opposed to burning me today, and then Windows being shot once I flip town.

I haven't yet processed Lars's death or the fact that Childs is still alive, though. On my reread during the Night, I wasn't feeling like Lars is scum.