In post 323, Datisi wrote: In post 318, tenebrousluminary wrote: In post 304, Datisi wrote:some people not mentioned in your list haven't even posted?? excuse me for asking i guess
class starting back again, cheers
I don't like the way Datisi focused on nitpicking rather than the substance of Nero Cain's argument.
have you decided you're just gonna mindlessly tunnel every post i make this game? i logged in during my break, saw that nero was supposedly townreading people that hadn't posted, i asked him about it. do you think "nitpicking" that makes me scummy?
In post 336, Datisi wrote: In post 330, tenebrousluminary wrote:I would like to know how you came up with this "mindless" idea. I have been quite clear about why I think the posts of yours I have criticized are scummy to me. It has not been mindless at all.
So long as you continue to make such posts, I will continue to suspect you, yes. Is being scumread so alien to you as to be upsetting?
because it seems like you've decided you're gonna scumread me and are forcing my posts into a scum mindset, as opposed to actually reading them and coming to alignment-indicative conclusions.
and i find it dubious at best that you would consider a post like that scummy, considering its context. i'm not upset, i'm just calling bs out when i see it.
In post 352, Datisi wrote: In post 349, tenebrousluminary wrote: In post 348, Datisi wrote:like, this is what i mean when i say specifically looking for scum motivation in my posts. it feels like latching on to whatever i say in order to try to force a contradiction out. do i seem concerned? why wouldn't i dismiss it by saying something about it?
To me, it seems like Yeet's push made you sweat. Resorting to discrediting it as a meme rather than either ignoring it because of not being concerned
or confronting the substance
, to me is the action of mafia. One could call it "dismissive." I could be wrong, of course.
you mean like when i tried to question him about what gives him the jitters and he latched onto the fact i said "good vote" as opposed to actually responding to my questioning? and how the entirety of his push just kept being egging me on without any substantive elaboration? gee, i wonder why i started thinking of the push as a meme. no idea why.
Still think I'm partnered with this?
In post 190, Datisi wrote:ackchually before i go
In post 181, skitter30 wrote: In post 173, Datisi wrote:ok? does that make me scum? if no, why are we having this conversation? if yes, why aren't you voting me?
I think you made a bad initial vote and that you're trying to justify it under pressure but cant. And i now am!
VOTE: skitter
(1) what pressure
(2) you've seen me so many times make early votes that had more confidence than justified to get the game going and see the reactions to it
In post 346, Datisi wrote: In post 200, skitter30 wrote:Pedit @dats me questioning you abt your vote. The more i ask you abt it the more i feel like there was no initial reasoning and you're trying ti back-justify it
And my issue is that you presented it as a scumread and the reasoning you gave was somewhat empty
And now you're saying it was more of a reaction vote? Why is my reaction scummy?
do you expect there to be some super strong case / reasoning from me on page 2-4, whatever it is? (when i'm not playing with ico, that is
) like, A Thing from tenebro pinged me, i decided to vote him for it, both to show that i got bad pings from his slot, and to see if any interesting things happen as a result from it. i do this *checks notes* all the fucking time as both alignments. which is something that you should know, and the fact that you're giving me shit for having an "empty" vote early on is, like, not a good look.
like, what's your idea here? that scum!me panicked, made a random vote that i had no idea how to justify because i thought i wouldn't get asked about it?? then when, surprise, did get asked about it, i only then started thinking about a justification?? like you know better than this...
In post 445, Datisi wrote: In post 440, skitter30 wrote:- this in some ways reads like an OmGUS-y reaction to them voting you a few posts prior
- i still disagree with you that his vote was indicative of a 'scummy lack of boldness' and not wanting to stand out when you hadnt had much pressure at the time
- i obviously do not expect a super strong case on p4, and i would habe been fine if you had just said it was A Ping, but the reasoning you're giving doesnt make sense to me as something you actually thought at the time
- you seem to be getting kinda testy / sensitive that i'm pursuing this line of questioning ...
- just because i voted them after they voted me doesn't mean it was omgus... like you can claim it is you want, and i can't prove it wasn't because i can't prove what i was thinking, but like; even if it were omgus, that is scummy why exactly? like you don't get to make such blanket statements about me
- i was the person with the most pressure at the time (and before someone starts crying how this is a contradiction because i called yeet's push a meme - just because it was the most pressure doesn't mean it was actually a lot of it), and okay.
- ok, what is the difference between me just saying it was a ping and me actually explaining the thought process behind the ping? also, what about "there's a person continuously attacking me, and then there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack" doesn't make sense?
- yeah no shit i'm getting testy. same question at the first point: why is that scummy? did i miss some new towntisi meta where i as town don't get annoyed at garbage pushes at me?
In post 456, Datisi wrote: In post 449, skitter30 wrote: In post 445, Datisi wrote:there's a person who jumps into the game, says one throwaway line on why i'm scummy and votes me, and the latter is more likely to be scum trying to fit in and attack a popular target, but also make it seem like there was Original Thought Process behind their attack"
Because i think you were overestimating how much of a target you were at the time, and how likely scum are to be trying to 'fit in' there by voting you, and i dont know why that universe was more likely than them being town and just not liking one of your posts
And yeah i think you getting this annoyed is more indicative of scum-you, see: recent open wherein you became conciliatory (i.e. vs testy) when you got scumread
and again, why are you assuming that this is supposed to be like, lockscum pack it up boys case
ajkndjbfdkjf
like, how i imagine town enters the game where they have a scumread on a person that is currently being pressured. they will either (a) quietly vote the person to add pressure and say minimal stuff about them, or (b) add a decent amount of content (page-appropriate ofc) onto their push. the fact that he did something *in between* is markers of a scum mindset imo - it shows that he doesn't want to take too much responsibility for pushing me if i happen to flip (so he can't do (b)), but also doesn't wanna seem like scum who's braindead sheeping someone (so he can't do (a))
like OBVIOUSLY this isn't super strong but it's a start. and i see no reason why not to vote there and explore that start. like do you think i'm not aware that reasoning is not very strong??
and after googling both conciliatory and testy... you sure? i'm pretty sure i started voting you there pretty early on after you did some nonsense push on me
There's a lot of interaction with skitter in here. Many of Datisi's targets are flipped town at this point, so if there was any slot he interacted with heavily which could be a partner, I think this is a reasonably likely one. There are parts of this interaction that read as genuine frustration from Datisi, which would suggest not being partnered with skitter, but I am only reading his side of it right now. There are bits I could see as potential bussing, too. Plus, there is a third option, which is that traitor-skitter is distancing from Datisi and he doesn't know it. I think this last might sound the most likely to me right now, but this could be a useful place to analyze for someone who knows Datisi and skitter well or is generally good at associative tells. Would love to get some input on this.
I could still see it as partnered in part because Datisi eventually comes around to a townread on skitter and even chainsaws for her later.
In post 472, Datisi wrote:
i'm town, and i will do all that i can to protect this town and you : >
Ari is another slot that I could imagine Datisi being scum with. This interaction could easily be fake, but there's more interesting stuff coming.
In post 908, Datisi wrote: In post 489, humaneatingmonkey wrote:So Datisi makes no attempt to pressure my slot even though he admits it's scummy, and didn't attempt to parse even further when prompted by Nero. No hot takes and no solves, just unproductive questions thus far.
this is like, one of those times where i want to ask - what do you expect me to pressure you about? your slot is scummy because you dropped into the game, made a pretty much meme push on me, threw weak questions at ari, and left when she voted you. there is nothing to parse there, you and i both know that you're a better scum player than that, so it's not like i can actually draw a "well he's scum completely fucking up the game, gg" conclusion from that. and the only possible pressure i can put on you is general "what are your reads", which like. i find more value in seeing what you come up with yourself than what you come up with if i'm yelling at you about it.
Datisi's entire push on monkey is a chainsaw for Ari.
In post 917, Datisi wrote: In post 754, Nordom wrote:If Datisi's replies in a satisfactory manner, I'm switching my vote to VP.
VOTE: nordom
gee, i wonder where i saw this kinda reasoning before
last two games i saw a post like this, it came from scum both times
(i'm not yet certain if i wanna end up on nordom, but this feels fitting to change now, both as a scumread on nordom and as a not-quite-scumread-anymore on skitter)
I don't think I spotted a compelling trajectory to come off scumreading skitter.
In post 995, Datisi wrote: In post 988, Nordom wrote:Wu was the pressure push and Monkey was just the idle comment because he was a popular choice at the time.
i made one (1) post on wu, AFTER being asked my opinion. and i did not call monkey scum, quite the opposite, i said i don't think those weird posts make him scum. all while pushing skitter and tenebro, who i was first on.
can you acknowledge the above, and then tell me whether you still think i was making "lazy convenient reads on wu and monkey"?
I think it was more than once that I saw Datisi brag about being first on me and skitter, which would be an odd thing to do if skitter and I are both town.
In post 1848, Datisi wrote:
not doing what the conftown player tells you to do and instead being contrarian to them lands you into pressure? wow what a surprise, i'm sure she'd had no idea that would be the end result
Part of the aggressive Ari defense series. Why is he townreading Ari, again?
In post 2236, Datisi wrote:
this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night? because it seems to me that nero had been arguing with her for a longer time, but the wagon only taking off now while she's vla feels like it should be indicative of *something*
In post 2168, humaneatingmonkey wrote:So I think very much that Ari was being contrarian to Math because of the b a g g a g e. Personally, i think it would support the claim that it's non-ai. But it doesn't explain her belligerence towards me. It seems to me that it was a blanket strategy to anyone who she thinks she can push around. But saying that, i wonder what datisi thinks about ari's contrarianism now that it's been given full context.
i was very much present in the game where the math/ari shitfight took place, so i was aware of the context at the time. but it doesn't really change my view on her behaviour much? like, ari saw what happened last game, how math started tunnelling her and how much effort it took just to salvage the game in final 6 when math was dead set on voting out ari. so i think it's still fair to conclude that ari wouldn't purposefully be getting on his bad side as scum. the baggage point is... i dunno, if it's true that the whole thing was NAI and that ari was acting like that solely because of an outside grudge, then i kinda lose a bit of respect for her, but i'm really not sure it's the case.
The two-for-one skitter and Ari defense in one easy post. I think scum would be more aware of their partner's VLA than some random person's. Also, I feel that the statement "skitter's wagon taking off while she's vla feels indicative of something" is phrased in a seed-planty way. It's obvious what conclusion Datisi wants the reader to come to, that scum are taking advantage of the situation, so why not say so rather than try to convince the reader this is their own idea?
In post 2260, Datisi wrote: In post 2254, Nero Cain wrote: In post 2236, Datisi wrote:this makes me think, did skitter's wagon go up at like, any point other than last night?
I think some people had mentioned Skitter being scum most notably Math and Fire for not doing her "ping" thing.
Can you link me a game or 2 that you played in where there was a hood?
thanks, i'll check that out.
normal games that i've played in that had a hood are:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=80974 - 9p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=82613 - 9p, town/scum
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=83045 - 9p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=84455 - 13p, town/town
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=84322 - 12p, town/scum/scum
and one game which had a scum/scum hood of a scum and a traitor that i'm not really counting since it wasn't a hood in the usual sense.
so, yeah. i'm really not buying the notion that "there has to be scum in hood because *radio static*".
I must admit this puts a hole in my theory that the neighborhood could possibly be scum-free. Incidentally, what is Cape's read on Galron, since we know Cape was using the neighborhood last night, allegedly?
In post 2289, Datisi wrote: In post 2284, Yeet wrote: In post 2274, Datisi wrote:skitter is really good as town, yeah. the thing i'm thinking of right now is what i commented earlier, i find it weird that there was an actual wagon happening on her seemingly right after she went for a few-day-vla.
Datisi there are 3 people on skitter's "wagon" and two of these people are close to confirmed town.
i am in fact aware of that (though there were more people on there previously)
it does not refute my point that it's odd how her wagon took off only once she went v/la and how it's much easier for scum to vote her once she's away. and how your progression on skitter is less than stellar.
More chainsaw for skitter. It's almost so much it makes me think it could be TMI that the skitter pushes are wrong rather than partnered.
Just wanted to note there is an incredibly weak Dragons suspicion throughout this iso that Datisi never does anything about, and in fact he even goes after Scorp among the lurkers despite having Dragons as his #3 suspicion or so consistently. Looks partnery to me.
In post 2487, Datisi wrote:i wonder if the fact that fua is attempting to push skitter while ignoring me (while the two of us are doing almost the same thing) has anything to do with the fact that skitter is more likely to be yeeted and has more supporters than i do...
More chainsaw for skitter. He's awfully invested in this for someone who was recently scumreading her.
In post 2666, Datisi wrote:
was townie early then fell off
eod play was obviously not great but that's a very shallow answer
i will provide a fuller answer in the next 36-48 business hours, really need my vla this week >_>
Not much in here that contradicts fire's Titus/Cape theory.
In post 2857, Datisi wrote:ok, my bitch ass laptop decided to not connect to the internet so phoneskimming time
looking at scorp's iso in isolation (lol), definitely a scum contender. this dude has done jack shit all game. i think the tell i made on him on d1, that he's not even TRYING to appear townie, is valid, but not insanely so as he was aware that refuge in audacity is a possible defense.
i can def see scorp being scum *if* the rest of his team in a pretty good position. because i think scum is more likely to be lazy if the game seems to be going fine, or if it seems like their partners have it together. (thought goes to umlaut in that one mini normal where he started being lazy when mathblade replaced into his team)
as said, if he'd scum, i think we're lowkey fucked since that prob means there's some deepwolves or powerwolves or whatever. i think nero is a strong contender should scorp flip red; other than fitting with my bullshit gamestate reads, i think he also tried to make an eyes wagon a thing when math was trying to wagon scorp?
also, the fact that (1) there is absolutely nothing townie about scorp (2) there's still practically no wagon on him despite that and despite a MASON pushing him makes me feel like the game isn't a fan of his wagon (though i'd have to run another check to see if anyone was actually properly pulling away from him)
so, like, in total? 6.5/10, my gamestate reads aren't always great, but i would not mind a wagon here
This is a sudden flip compared with Datisi's earlier expressed Scorp townread because of his "Luca Blight tell." I believe it supports Scorp town, and makes me question why Dragon gets no attention from this quarter.
In post 3182, Datisi wrote:VOTE: frogster
not loving the fact that it feels like everyone and their mother is defending scorp, but let's see what happens here
I believe this comes from a desire to keep Scorp mislimmable for later.
In post 3372, Datisi wrote:
if i were there now, i'd be voting cape.
2610 feels like a "how DARE you question me on my speedy lolhammer you SCUMFUCK" shadethrowing when it's like, quite obvious why he should be getting questioned for it, the defensiveness feels unusual because like, obviously he's getting shit for it
and i think it's unlikely cape/malcolm are s/s because i have a hard time imagining two scumbuddies deciding to do this weird lowkey shade but not really push thing on the same person one right after the other
bottom of page 106, be back in a bit
I don't understand what "if I were there now" means, but it sounds like an excuse to maintain a Cape scumread and avoid acting on it. While I have found Cape's play to be town, I am only seeing support in here for fire's theory.
In post 3421, Datisi wrote: In post 3410, Scorpious wrote:If anyone cares, my strongst scum reads right now are VP, Cape,and Datisi...
give me one reason why these aren't just random 3 names you pulled out of a hat
@nero, do you actually have any reason for scumreading me other than me not accepting your "hood therefore must scum" idea as gospel?
This is an odd thing to become incensed about for someone who allegedly scumreads Cape.
TLDR: I think Dragons, Cape and April have increased scum equity compared to how I felt before.