Thanks for checking in Brantz. I look forward to your post. I noticed this inactivity was site-wide; your post here saying you were back from Vegas was your most recent post on the site until this latest one from you.
Basically where I’m sitting right now is that behaviourwise I’m happiest with Bulbasaur Commonwealth but you literally can’t be scum by yourself unless you can submit night actions while pseudocided (and you’re listed as dead while pseudocided so that doesn’t make sense), and for the same reason you can’t be scum with Berlin because there was nuke from Orbit on day 8 (narninian devoured night 6, you pseudocided early day 7 and were gone night 7 and could not have submitted), so either you’re town or it’s you and Oranje together but each having separate kill flavours (or devour being a limited edition thing that could only happen so many times). And Bulbasaur Commonwealth have been nudging me towards you being Berlin anyway but you literally can’t be.
And the first post:
↑Cuttlefish wrote:
II. Each faction and vigilante has its own kill flavour.
III. Neighborhoods were named after a Canadian city. Scum factions were named flavour-appropriately.
IV. If you think the game is imbalanced, you're probably right.
II. seems to contradict with BBmolla said about them not having a faction kill because it says that each faction does have its own kill flavour (the town’s kill flavour is lynch). We have 4 known scum teams and 4 known kill flavours. If Volcano really doesn’t have a kill flavour then there must be a 5th scum faction.
III. Scum factions were named flavour-appropriately. that seems to mean that we should be able to match kill flavours to scum factions relatively easily and for some teams this is true: eviscerate-werewolf, devour-leopard. incinerate could be volcano or berlin. if bbmolla told the truth, the incinerate is berlin and nuke from orbit is a 5th faction. if bbmolla didn’t tell the truth then incinerate makes the most sense for volcano and berlin can be nuke.
IV. we had 6 cops and 2 trackers. and none of them were fake claims. and yet we’re in LYLO facing a 9th scum. the game might just be imbalanced!
——
I still plant on summarising things and still plan on colouring in the vote counts but I’m not in a hurry to vote yet. Like, I was almost sure it was you because of your inactivity and then I realised that I had been right that the only situation in which you are scum is if you are scum together with Oranje (or Molla) and Bulbasaur Commonwealth could be right that those two situations are kinda unlikely.
I think we all need to be as sure as we possibly can be before voting, and I think interacting with you will help with that one way or the other.
Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-03-17 11:57:34).[/color]
↑Bulbasaur Commonwealth wrote:Mod - According to your rulesheet, does a non-majority lynch at deadline lead to a no-lynch? (Aka if the majority wagon is at 9 at DL, will that be a lynch or a no-lynch?)
Yes, you need 13 votes or there will be a no-lynch.
Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-04-11 10:14:33).
Deadline is suspended while I search for replacements.
elusive
, Plotinus,
vonflare
and
Titus
are being replaced.
It is possible that some roles were altered for balance after the 13p games were combined if the role(s) would have resulted in a severe balance issue. Otherwise, the roles were left intact.
Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-08 09:17:48).[/color]
----------
Titus
-
Town Bureaucrat
- Lynched day seven.
Three-Pronged Trouser God
-
Town Mason Herbalist
- Nuked from orbit day seven.
It is now twilight seven. Twilight will end in (expired on 2015-04-29 23:25:48), or once everyone has posted. Night seven will end in (expired on 2015-04-30 23:25:48), or once everyone has sent me a PM requesting an early end to the night phase.
↑Cuttlefish wrote:BRantz has returned to the game.
----------
Vote Count 8.00
Not Voting (8)
:
Oranje Crush
, Plotinus, Bulbasaur Commonwealth,
ChriVi
,
Boonskiies
,
Drixx
, BRantz,
BBmolla
With 8 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.
Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-14 23:05:07).
Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-05-14 23:05:07).[/color]
----------
Boonskiies
-
Town Skeptical Cop
- Lynched day eight.
ChriVi
-
Town Neighbor Doctor
- Nuked from orbit day eight.
It is now twilight eight. Twilight will end in (expired on 2015-05-06 11:35:32).
Night eight will end either in (expired on 2015-05-07 11:35:32) or once every living player has sent me a PM requesting a shortened night.
Deadline falls in (expired on 2015-06-01 21:10:00)[/color]
----------
BBmolla
-
Tropical Volcano Lair Mafia One-Shot Barista
- Lynched day ten.
Drixx[
-
Town Argyrophilic
- Nuked from orbit day ten.
It is now twilight ten. You may submit your night actions now. Day eleven will start when I have received PMs from all the living players requesting such.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:53 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
↑Plotinus wrote:(On that note, I’m kind of wondering in hindsight why none of [
Driix
, BC] brought the buddying my attention yesterday.)
Actually...I did. In lylo, not knowing the situation, I called it a tag-team, getting all paranoid of a Molla-you scumteam, stating that,
somehow
, you both had to be scum because you were both doing the same thing.
With Molla as flipped last scum of his faction, that means that you aren't his partner, but were being buddied. The two are practically indistinguishable (scum tag-teaming, scum buddying another player who may or may not be otherscum) without hindsight.
By the way, I concluded last night by telling Bulb (who may be getting slowly getting back in) that the most probable last scum was Berlin. Plotinus, there is one very obvious reason why I made that call--care to venture what my revelation was as to why?
-V.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 10:33 am
by Plotinus
maybe I need more experience then; if I’m scumreading someone and they cosy up to someone then I think they’re buddying. If I’m not scumreading them, then I think they’re townreading the person. That’s overly simplistic and relies on me being right in my reads which isn’t always the case. I haven’t noticed tag teaming before. In my last game it was pretty obvious when the scum was buddying one of the townies and she was townreading him and defending him vigorously and after he flipped scum, none of us went after her because it was a pretty clear cut case of buddying. She was just obviously town to all of us and none of us gave her a hard time about it. (it also wasn’t near LYLO though so that might have made the difference. LYLO is terribly and I hate it.)
I’m guessing that you’re still scumreading me if you think the last scum is Berlin. Or maybe you were reaction testing me. Or you think I’m the easiest mislynch, which is true. I don’t know. But it’s not me, so it’s either Brantz (and if it’s Brantz then the only thing that makes sense is Oranje/Brantz pair because how do you have a society of only one member?) or it’s you and if it’s you then you’re an SK because in Elemental Mafia after we got the mafia we just had to find the SK and suddenly people were looking for townie-behaving people not scum-behaving people because SKs don’t have associative tells (unless they’re group scum which Ivy said was possible) and they have to spend the game genuinely scum hunting just like the town so it’s really hard to catch them. I want you guys to be town. I believe that you guys are probably town. But I’m not ready to vote yet because I’m not sure enough.
I still don’t know which is the answer, but I’ve thought of some ways that I can try and figure it out that I’m not sharing just yet. I’m still scumhunting. I haven’t made up my mind yet. I want to interact with people in real time but my timezone makes it hard because you guys don’t show up until I’m almost ready for bed. I don’t know how to solve the other big problem that one of you is incorrectly scumreading me. I think this LYLO is harder than usual because all 3 of us were harder to kill than normal people, and there were so many conftowns, so I can’t even ask myself “am I here because I’m wrong about stuff or am I here because someone else is expected to be wrong about me” though I suspect I’d be here anyway if not for the bulletproof, either because I’m wrong about my strongest long term townread (you) or because I’m the easiest mislynch (because nobody is townreading me and i’m town). And you’re here in the same situation. And Brantz was, in his own words, playing chicken with the nuke from orbit people until day 7 and then there were conftowns to worry about and he was a lurker, so if he’s town then he’s also mislynch bait. So all 3 of us are in the same boat (2 of us for real, 1 of you for show)
Brantz has hardly been here and his recent absence is due to a trip so that’s not alignment indicative but I want some time to interact with him and figure him out. If town is going to win this then town needs to work together. And right now, nobody is working together with anybody else and that’s a problem. I want to see if Brantz is willing to try to work together with either me or you and I think I’ll learn something meaningful from that interaction.And if he doesn’t, I’ll learn something from that too.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 11:07 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
↑Plotinus wrote:I’m guessing that you’re still scumreading me if you think the last scum is Berlin.
If I am scumreading you, it would not be because I think the last scum is Berlin. I'll tell you that much.
However, there is most definitely a reasonably strong explanation for why the last scum is Berlin, not a serial killer. I'm asking you if you can figure out what that reason is. (I told my buddies what it was already.)
How do you have a society of only one member?
Thing is, they did flip serial killer. There
are
mods who use serial-killer-teams (that would mainly be Jason), but it's an extreme rarity. The wolf faction flipped two, and while claiming to be a serial killer, the first wolf being lynched didn't flip serial killer. Nor did the second. Both flipped identically to the other factions we've had flip: as a faction. Berlin Undercity
Mafia
(Role X). Berlin Undercity
Mafia
(Role Y). Tropical Volcano
Mafia
(Role X). Tropical Volcano
Mafia
(Role Y). Tropical Volcano
Mafia
(Role Z). Indigo Tourmaline
Werewolf
(Role X). Indigo Tourmaline
Werewolf
(Role Y). Leopard Society
Serial Killer
(Role X). Mafia/Mafia/Werewolf/Serial Killer. If Leopard Society was a scumteam, why not just name them another mafia? Because if this were the case, then we'd have 3 Volcano, 2 wolves, 2 Berlin, and 2 Leopards. With Berlin being named mafia, a 2-Leopard faction should be mafia, just like with two wolves, they were named wolves not a serial killer. Yet the Leopard was called a serial killer.
And you said it yourself: kill flavors are fairly easy to predict. If the Leopard Society were a team...where's the connection to nuked from orbit? Whereas Evicerate/Wolf, Devour/Leopard, and Incinerate/Berlin all make sense.
So the only options I see are Berlin or second serial killer...and as I've said above, there's strong reason to believe it's Berlin for one simple reason that I'm holding back from saying. (A trump card if you will.)
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:01 pm
by Plotinus
it’s fair to hold your trump card back; I’ve as much as said that i’m doing the same.
I remember a while back (in the wall about you, specifically), I speculated that Devour was a superpowered werewolf. Then Drixx speculated the same thing in a way that suggested he hadn’t read my wall so he independently came up with this himself. Oranje was complaining that this would be an alignment change if it was a were wolf that only activated after the other two werewolves died which was technically true but he was also suggesting that he couldn’t be SK because he was an “amnesiac” commuter and the part of his role that he “remembered” couldn’t be an alignment change (which even at the time I felt he was arguing at cross purposes with me because i was not suggesting that his alignment had changed, I was suggesting that he was lying about the amnesiac part of it.) Werewolf and leopard seem to be more closely connected than anything. Maybe he was an auxiliary member of their team or maybe he could have won with them but not with the other teams or something to balance out the fact that werewolves were only two and volcano was 3, and if that is the case then berlin would have been 3 too, so 3:3:2:1 but the 2:1 being kind of together but not together. like maybe he didn’t know their names and they didn’t know his but he could have known their existence.[1] I don’t know how plausible or likely that is but I just looked up Uncouth Mafia again and you had 3:3:3 there in a rock paper scissors configuration and so that’s on my mind at the moment. I’m not sure how likely that is though.
[1] in my first offsite game (i have two completed offsite games), the mechanic was 3 SKs who didn’t know who each other were and a 4th player who won with the town but could choose which of the SKs to let kill each night (by flavour name not by username). Ivy was wondering why I had that caveat in my original wall about him; that’s why.
And I agree about the kill flavours. you’re right. (except until bbmolla claimed they didn’t have a factional kill, incinerate sounded reasonable for volcano too) but if incinerate is Berlin then why are they nuking? is it because they’re Underground? so they nuke from orbit but they’re underground? in an underground bunker but then why isn’t it nuked from underground bunker. but this is the age of artificial satelites so they could have a remote control that lets them access their nukes without physically being in orbit themselves? or there could be another serial killer in a spaceship and Berlin has factional immunity to nuke from orbit by virtue of having an underground bunker?
*looks at the first post again*
Berlin had a roleblocker and a “paragon of crime” (narninian claimed this was killredirecting. it may have been. Oranje claimed he was telling the truth but Oranje also claimed that Volcano’s kill ability was called Scorch. Do you think it’s possible Oranje was making up the autopsy thing? we know he lied about some things and so it’s hard for me to tell.
Volcano had a Renovator (vonflare who didn’t seem to give a nontrolly answer about but they claimed it was a role cop?), a ??? which was probably a janitor, and a one shit barista (bbmolla the nightskipper) and bbmolla claimed they had factional bulletproof
Leopard had the commute thing
Werewolves had an “avatar of lycanthropy” which was probably something cool because narninian’s role was cool and his name was similar but who knows what it was, and a modified bulletproof.
if there is some obvious ability that is missing from Berlin I’m probably going to keep missing it. If you think bp is what’s missing, it could have been a factional thing or narninian’s ability could have worked like a limited bp (redirecting kills off of us his buddy, or just flat out redirecting them off of his team entirely). if you think commuting is what’s missing then the werewolves and volcanos also couldn’t commute? if you’re insisting it has to be berlin because they already had a role blocker (pika) and a jailkeeper would be redundant then that’s true and i won’t fault you for survivalism in LYLO because it’s LYLO and we all want to survive.
But whichever team or individual we’re looking for, if nuke is a delayed nightkill, and all signs point to that being true, then 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, 10 are the days it happened on, so it was submitted on nights 1, 2, 3, 6, 7, 9. if it’s a daykill after all then there’s the question of why it wasn’t submitted on day 1 and day 5 (night 4 was skipped). If it’s Brantz, we need an explanation for how it was submitted on night 7, which points to him having a teammate alive at that point (bbmolla but i ruled tropical volcano out in my analysis, or oranje, which seems crazy but I lost a game that my faction won because i was possessed by a demon on the night after 7p lylo and then I lost a 3 way coinflip[2].
That
, at least, I can be sure isn’t going to happen to anybody in this game, because not bastard, but this is the frame of reference i’m coming from here. 2 extremely strange bastard games one of which didn’t even have an informed majority + 3 games of matrix6 + elemental mafia + some browsing of completed games.)
[2] it shouldn’t have come down to a coinflip (though that was in fact my own best option), but math. and math based on a faulty assumption at that. That experience is part of why I asked you that paranoid question about Berlin, about whether I’ll be damned if I push Brantz this way, damned if I push him that way; that game had a lot of that sort of thing, some of it from town, some of it from scum.
Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:04 pm
by Plotinus
*one sh
o
t barista
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 12:02 am
by Plotinus
Looked in nikanor’s mod meta some.
In Mini 1032 there was a mass delayer who caused everyone’s night actions to resolve a day later. we haven’t seen any signs of that here, but maybe an ability could exist on a more local level, for example delaying one’s own night action until a subsequent night.
In Zom Com mafia, and I think a few others (i saw someone complaining about it a few different end games because they missed a few kills due to not reading the role pms closely enough when i was opening these browser tabs last night) the mafia’s factional kill had to be submitted in twilight not nighttime. I’m not sure if this possibility that affects anything at all from our perspective.
In Micro 36 (and many others), each member of the mafia team has a different kill flavour, and one of them involves a satellite but the kill flavour is vapourised.
Another mafiaoso had an ability "Any actions you take will be delayed until they would resolve successfully. You may not target dead players, but your actions will resolve normally on dead players if they cannot resolve while the player is alive. This passive affects both active and factional abilities.”
In Micro 147, the Haunted Children’s Doll (mafia) had a role kind of like Narninians, except it wasn’t limited to kills. It also functioned as a rolecop. There was also a Ten Foot Stack of Pizza which was a mafia jailkeeper Godfather. There was also a town role with a sleeper ability: once a certain number of members of his faction had died, he would become a vigilante. This sort of ties into the “sleeper werewolf” theory from earlier, where Oranje would have known all along that he was SK but wouldn’t have had access to his kill until certain conditions were met. His alignment wouldn’t have changed.
In NikPik IV, there was a weird global commutor thing (King Henry VIII).
In NikPik V there was a weird mafia extended twilight jailkeeper thing which at first made me suspicious but it’s not all that close of a match on a closer inspection. But basically, using the terminology we’re used to in this game, in twilight they could sort of cause someone else to pseudocide and they couldn’t post in the game thread but could still vote normally, but actions taken on them or against them wouldn’t resolve. The Blue faction in this game had an inactive mafia kill: they couldn’t use their factional kill except as a tie breaker, kind of like Tropical Volcano in this game. There was also a Town Reflex Modified Absorber who seems reminiscent of Bulbasaur Commonwealth’s ability if not exactly the same.
"You should be able to soak up some energy from anyone who visits you. The first time each player targets you, you will absorb a part of the ability that they used on you. This will only work once on each player, and will result in a weaker and one-shot form of their ability; however, these abilities will be free actions and will not count toward your one ability allowed per phase.”
More recently, in Mini 1668, Nikanor had lots of perfectly normal and regular sounding roles.
In conclusion, Nikanor has used both town and mafia jailkeepers and commuters. Nikanor likes extended twilight and puts it in most of his games. There is some reason to believe that different members of the same team might have different kill flavours in a Nikanor game.
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 6:54 am
by BRantz
Okay, sorry about the delay. Plot most of your analysis posts are summing up the thread with a few thoughts thrown in. Will you give me your thoughts just condensed into one post from the reread (without any of the summarizing). It will make it easier to understand where you are at and what you think, and be easier for me to respond to individual points. I don't see walling as either town aligned or scum aligned, but having the willingness to go read the entire thread makes me think one of two things, either you are town (and actually trying to figure out the game) or you are scum who is extremely desperate.
@BC: Has Bulb said he is catching up? Because if not waiting for him for a VCA may be a fools errand.
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 7:34 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
He's not really catching up, per se, but he is here. At the very least I think he's current on the most recent lynch.
-Ivy
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:14 am
by Plotinus
BBmolla’s flip shook my confidence a lot because I saw how it doesn’t really take much to nudge me in either direction even when I’m trying not to confbias and that’s made me feel a lot less sure of everything. Setup spec wise, I don’t see how you could have nuked anybody from orbit at lynchtime on day 8 when you were pseudocided on night 7, or in the unlikely event that it’s a daykill instead, i don’t see how you could have nuked anybody from orbit on day 7 when you were pseudocided at the time, unless you had a partner but the only available partners (Oranje (and BBmolla (2859))) make little sense, but looking into some of those roles from Nikanor’s previous games it seemed there was a role that could remove people from the game and then could still use night actions on them, so I dunno. I’ve been thinking myself in circles about this. All four scum factions were voting you at one point on day 1 which seemed like a town tell to me though.
Behaviour wise, your inactivity was troubling me, but it’s encouraging that you’re responding now instead of prodging again (the first time was understandable, but all of yesterDay bbmolla was promising to make a case and it never materialised so if you’d done the same thing or if you’d prodged 2-3 times today I would have been concerned). It’s felt like a lot of the time after day 1 you weren’t making waves, and even on days that you weren’t pseudocided you didn’t have very much to say. In my exotic birds game the scum basically lurked through lylo and let the town tie themselves into knots.
You seemed to have a few minor associative tells with Berlin: you hardly interacted with them at all even though Narninian lived until the start of day 6, and in your reads lists you had them in the null section, and Narninian listed you last in his lynchables list.
Bulbasaur Commonwealth has played very well this game. they don’t seem to have associative with anybody in particular. They had lots of activity and I really liked how levelheaded they were in this game. Mastin’s flailing yesterDay seemed genuine. I kinda feel like BC deserve to win regardless of their alignment at this point. If they’re scum after all this, then good game. In my readthrough about them, I wasn’t sure if their argument with copper was town vs town or not, and I had concerns about the deathfisaro thing too but I think it comes down to the precise definition of investigation immune vs investigation proof vs can’t be investigated. Maybe the phrases really do have such clearly distinct meanings that from their perspective the only possible interpretation was that deathfisaro was trying to get them mislynched, but we’ve talked the issue to death. I’m not in a position to know if that’s the case. After I did my first big readswall on them, they seemed kind of hesitant to trust my town read of them and I didn’t understand why at the time. I find self meta suspicious in general but Mastin was right about BBmolla and I was wrong so I don’t feel like I’m in a position to complain.
—
If it weren’t for BBmolla, I probably would have come out of all of this wanting to vote Brantz, because yesterDay I would have thought he would only flip scum if he was a death miller, that’s how townie he was looking to me. In hindsight I saw that he was buttering me up but at the time I couldn’t see it. Now, I think that the readthrough was neccessary but not sufficient. I did need to know everything that had happened in order instead of in isolation. But I need to see you two talk to each other and talk with me too. Mastin seems to think I should be able to setup spec myself into a solution.
The only alignment I’m sure of is my own and both of you say/have said that you are scumreading me but I don’t know why. Neither of you are pushing me or pushing each other or scumhunting and I don’t know if it’s because you’ve already made up your minds and just waiting for someone to say they’re ready to vote or if you’re waiting for me to do something. Mastin’s case against me was “something feels off about Plotinus”. Your case against me is “I think we’re still here because of Plotinus”. Of those two nearly identical (and impossible to defend against) cases I feel like Brantz’ is the more worrisome because he hasn’t been here whereas BC have been talking to me, but having a lot of offline stuff to take care of after a trip is not alignment indicative.
I want people to interact with me or ask me questions or tell me why they think the things that they think. If we don’t work together as a town then we’re going to lose.
Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:29 am
by Plotinus
I also think that reading the game thread is kind of the bare minimum of what a replace-in is supposed to do. I think Brantz and Ivy have also read the entire thing, they just did it in real time. It took me a while to reach a point where I could get something out of the read through, though. If I’d done it right away back then, I would have been lost.
I think the part of the analysis that makes me town is that I was doing process of elimination as I went along and sharing it in thread, and I was bolding it so it’d be easier to find later, (like that post where I said Brantz couldn’t be Volcano because of Post 2859). If I were scum, that would have been too risky. I would have to either misrep on of you or claim scum by process of elimination. As town, I don’t have to worry about painting myself into a corner like that because one of you is town and one of you can’t be scum together with anybody because you’re not scum but the other of you is scum so you won’t be process of eliminated.
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:16 am
by Plotinus
Bulbazak do you have any thoughts on the game state that you would like to share with the rest of us?
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:23 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
Not really. I decided I'm not going to try to catch up on the close to 200 pages I'm behind on. I'm just using setup spec and PoE to figure things out, which is pointing me in the direction of Brantz. Mastin and Voided are telling me that I'm wrong, so we're arguing it out in the hydra thread. If you want to discuss something game related, you should talk to them, as I'm pretty clueless.
-Bulbasaur
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:45 am
by Plotinus
The last 10 pages or so are a summary of what you missed because I liveblogged my reread, if wading through my walls is more appealing than reading 200 pages. I didn’t come to as firm a conclusion as i would have liked to, and I was derailed a bit on day 10 by a townread of mine who flipped scum, but basically from my point of view, you guys are town because of behaviour, scum because of setup spec while Brantz is town because of setup spec, scum because of behaviour and i don’t know what to do about it. If you think Brantz is scum based on setup spec then maybe I should try harder to see it: the trouble is how the nuke from orbit happened on days 7 and 8.
Meanwhile, people aren’t posting very much lately and I feel underinteracted with. People who are townreading each other aren’t working together, people who are unsure aren’t (visibly) trying to figure things out, people who already seem to have made up their minds aren’t voting (but we have another week, and it’s polite of them to wait for the rest of us.)
Posted: Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:52 pm
by BRantz
To be fair, I think reads coming into today are somewhat moot because none of us (except whoever the last scum is) expected there to be a today.
So what you are saying is based on your read through you find me more likely to be scum because I haven't been as active, and that when I am active you don't think I "rocked" the boat as it were. But your hang up is that it seems very unlikely that I would have put in kills?
I have two major counterpoints to this:
In the early game (day 1) I got lambasted for thinking that NeverMeltIce/Marquis's claim was weird and fought hard about it for a while until I was convinced otherwise. Two I was one of the main pushes on Vonflare the entire time I was here until he died (yes I understand that this actually works toward your berlin associative theory theoretically). I won't say that I have been posting a lot, but I feel that I have been involved in most game days that I was around. Day 3 was a bit awkward as I didn't realize a new day had started 3915 hence me not showing up for a decent part of it.
On BC I agree with you mostly, I would be shocked if they were the last scum.
Posted: Tue Jun 09, 2015 12:12 am
by Plotinus
BC, Drixx, and I all reacted with surprise when the game didn’t end with bbmolla’s flip. you weren’t here to look surprised at the time (that’s null). mastin’s reaction seemed realistic enough. I was surprised too.
My hangup is that you were pseudocided when some kills happened and if you are Berlin, a werewolf, or a lone killer, there was no one around to submit them for you. you were one of the main pushers on vonflare and vyse was one of the main pushers of you, which makes Volcano seem unlikely. You pushing volcano doesn’t make you more likely to be opposing scum; it just makes you less likely to be volcano. pushing scum of any flavour is protown. Sure he was low hanging fruit but the important thing that was he was scum.
The disagreement with Never melt ice was a safe disagreement to get involved in. You get early town points for fighting to protect the town against rolefishing, and if you succeed, knowing who is neighbours with whom doesn’t help scum all that much. If it were single ball, you’d already know who the neighbours were. In multiball, not knowing means you could get false associative tells between neighbours because there are two people who look like they have something in common or look like they’re working together in some way, but if you’re scum then you don’t really care because whether they’re town or opposing team, your side does better if you lynch them. (I also thought I saw another game of yours earlier where you were town and you didn’t fight against rolefishing in this way but I can’t find it quickly now).
You say that reads going into today are useless because none of us were expecting another day but I don’t see much re-evaluating.
Mastin said she was town for flailing and wondering if everyone might be scum. Fine. But I do pretty much the exact same thing trying to figure out which of you is scum and she scumreads me for it. I think Voided’s mad at me for the same thing, but Bulba’s last response looked like he was trying to figure out my alignment.
They say that they’re doing lots of talking their hydra PT and while I wish they were discussing it in public because LYLO isn’t in the time to hold stuff back and it’s important to work together with your town reads. Bulba could work together with me and Voided/Mastin could work together with you and the interaction would help them figure out things out. I don’t understand why they would be denying themselves that information if they were town. In Exotic Birds we almost won 5p LYLO because we had two townies working together but then we didn’t work together with the other townie and he voted one of the conftowns (me) right off the bat and that wrecked it, but if we could have worked together all 3 of us then we would hav ewon.
Bulbasaur Commonwealth do seem to be discussing quite a bit and if they are scum then I don’t think it takes all that much discussion to figure out who is easiest to mislynch (me obviously) or figuring out what to do if one of us votes someone who isn’t them (hammer obviously).
What are you guys going to say in the endgame when you see I’ve been town all along? Aside from “go back to Rome”.
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:59 am
by BRantz
Its easy for you to say that it was an easy argument to be involved in now, but I almost got lynched on day 1 because of it. Now I know you can argue that I knew I wasn't going to be lynched because of my ability, but the fact remains that I caught a lot of backlash for my opinion there.
You say you don't see a lot of re-evaluating going on, but what do you call me interacting with you trying to figure out why you think what you think. If I wasn't going to reevaluate I probably would have just voted you at the start of the day. I feel more confident that BC is town than you are right now, so I am trying to sort you through discussion.
Your AtE at the end of your post is noted by the way.
I myself am just plum tired after being in this game for 280+ pages straight, more than half of it by myself, and I just don't feel like going through your re-read to respond to everything directed at our slot. I was figuring it was you, Plotinus, but Bulb has been arguing that it's BRantz, and both ways make sense to me (well, Bulb thinks it makes zero sense for you to be scum, but that's him).
This isn't the time for one of us to make a vote without some kind of consensus, so beyond trying to ask us direct questions we're probably going to be dark in-thread until we can agree to vote one of you. As far as vote preferences go, though:
Bulb wants to lynch BRantz.
Mastin (IIRC) wants to lynch Plot.
I'm stuck between the two.
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:26 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
But seriously, why would we tell you to go back to Rome?
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:37 am
by Plotinus
@Brantz: I’m glad that you’ve posted again and are interacting with me. I’ve felt like I was talking to myself a lot lately. Do you have any questions for me?
Well, yes, with your ability you could avoid being lynched and you did, but it’s true that you didn’t know you weren’t going to be lynched over it because the lynch could easily have gone through while you were offline. I’ve seen that happen in a few games. People say they are going to wait for a claim but then they get antsy and hammer anyway (especially ika). I think you probably weren’t expecting to get flak from your stance there though.
Call it AtE if you like but I really am frustrated with this game. I don’t know how to convince people of the truth. I tried looking back at my other games to see how other people did it, but I can’t remember seeing a townie escape from being lynched when they were going to be, except Drixx a few times.
Poor lalaladucks in my first game, she spent all of LYLO flailing and yelling that we were going to lose because we’d already decided to lynch her first and we spent days trying to decide who her partner was. then we lynched her and she was town. And in my second game deep-city-lights replaced into a very scummy slot and spent a while going through the thread and trying to scumhunt and to town up the slot but we lynched them (they were town). My third game was really straight forward; perfect town win, all major wagons were against scum. Fourth game there was a major wagon against the IC (town) who kept trying to get the town to stop tunnelling him but he probably would have been lynched without someone subbing in who knew his playstyle.
In this game, the major wagons that were against town and what caused them to dissolve (if they did):
Toon Flare (mason claim), Jackel (lynch), Drixx (successful AtE), Brantz (pseudocide), Lihin (lynch), deathfisaro (mod clarified that roleblocked leads to no result pm), Titus (day 3, threatened to replace out), Action Dan (house pushed him because he was on again off again about drixx, dan came back and clarified there had been an ongoing conversation with the mod), Plotinus (deathfisaro’s modkill), Titus (lynch), Boon (lynch), BC (hammered counter wagon).
I don’t know what to do.
I think whichever of you is scum is sitting back and watching.
pedit: becuase i tried my hardest and it wasn’t good enough. I replaced into this game and I shouldn’t have and I’m letting the town down and i don’t know how to fix it.
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 9:48 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
↑Plotinus wrote:pedit: becuase i tried my hardest and it wasn’t good enough. I replaced into this game and I shouldn’t have and I’m letting the town down and i don’t know how to fix it.
So...why would we tell you to go back to Rome?
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:01 am
by Plotinus
because I wasn’t good enough, wasn’t townie enough to make the other townie have an easy choice today, didn’t figure things out like I planned. And because people always get annoyed at the person that’s mislynched. It’s easier to sympathise with the person making a hard decision (unless they do something dumb like vote right away in LYLO).
I’m sorry. I’m just tired. You guys haven’t been mean to me. Maybe you wouldn’t have said that to me, it’s just what I’m saying to myself.
Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:08 am
by Bulbasaur Commonwealth
↑Plotinus wrote:because I wasn’t good enough, wasn’t townie enough to make the other townie have an easy choice today,
So? I've been there, too, and I haven't been yelled at to go back to Rome once. And you aren't so mind-numbingly stupid that you're here purely for mislynch bait. Only a fool or a troll would tell you that.