Mafiascum.net

I'd argue that NS isn't an easy target inasmuch as he is not easy to get traction on, only easy for others to dismiss as an easy target. Or maybe I'm just shit this game so far due to a combination of internal and external factors. He may be an easy target, and I'm not super confident in my read here, but a read it is, will I or nill I.

I do believe NS is deliberately blending into the background. I think the placement of his votes is opportunistic - not in the traditional overblown "lol I can take advantage of it to drive a Shadoweh lynch here and now!" but come out of a desire to take advantage of certain things in the gamestate. I think that was possibly the case with his TH vote and more likely than that was the case for his Shadoweh vote. The stagnation of the Shadoweh wagon is largely to his discredit in this matter. Take a look at the others on it: CDB I'm meh on, but he's interacted about the way the wagon he basically started has been moving a little, at least. I feel there's a reasonable chance he's sincere even though he's minimally readable overall. Chamber, besides other Townish signals, I think is also showing honesty about the wagon he's on and how it's developing. Same with Cerulean (the distractions/multiple foci/getting into arguments with the target all normal). Is it *typical* of NS to do what he's doing? To place this sort of vote and just not give a damn, even though for someone complaining of the pervasive Day 1 malaise in this game, his hook on the game is much stronger and more useful than, say, mine: he having convictions that the one he's wagoning is scum, and she has the largest wagon? Meh.

To votehop a series of bad, irrelevant nonwagons like Rack when he'd done as little as Reck, skip over to the momentarily popular TH wagon, Shdoweh, quick vote off onto me because everything is meta (and for me, being meta is suffering), back to Shadoweh just kinda because? The wagons here that had meaning because they were large or controversial were there for him to merely be on, not remotely participate in.

To hell with it, I'd take that fourth wagon vote twice in a row, no drive, trajectory-obscuring thing as scum. I might well be wrong. And I don't feel super confident about anything here because it all sucks, mkay, will try to get myself together here and IRL, but for the time being, NS.

Sixty, I'd have even said you're right about me being on a nonwagon no one will follow except that every possible wagon has been completely stagnant for about three days and that I'm far from the only one complaining of horrible Day 1 unmooredness, but for you, MIRACLES. They come cheap.

MIRACLES:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Tim Howard

You are also on a bad wagon for mediocre reasons and ALSO a wagon that should have gone further and stalled and retreated later than it did, huh. If we want to move things? We'll move them. I'll try to help.

In post 724, Flipping Awesome wrote:Also, I read through Nero Cain's scumgame and realized that the markers that I'm using for him aren't as good as I originally thought so I need a reset especially since my other head disagrees.

Or maybe PA is just an idiot and you shouldn't listen to her. Now vote scum Venmar with me.

[/area]

Some of these mini-wagons need to be cannibalised.

Kanye, Venmar and Shadoweh should all start by moving their votes to one of the six players with two or more other votes already in place.

I'm even more surprised at being called an easy lynch.

because nero pushing that looks more quixotically town than anything to me.

In post 714, Sixty wrote:chamber - So, if you really, really, really don't want to be voting Shadoweh... why are you? Normally when you're pursuing someone you don't literally plead with them to make this one post make sense. Especially since I actually can see someone posting an I.Child as a different color in a vote count. Nonetheless, would hold final judgment until later in the game.

My reasons for not wanting to vote her are more tied to me being friends with her and having looked forward to playing this game with her than they are tied to my opinion of her alignment. I thought I had communicated that by voting her anyway, but maybe not.

sigh

In post 729, sangres wrote:I'm even more surprised at being called an easy lynch.

An easy target. Or did you forget how so many people were like "sangres is being annoying, VOTE VOTE VOTE" in the early game?

chamber 731 wrote:My reasons for not wanting to vote her are more tied to me being friends with her and having looked forward to playing this game with her than they are tied to my opinion of her alignment.

Then in a somewhat interesting way we're in agreement. After this game, should we just stick to BSW or something like that?

Venmar 732 wrote:sigh

Don't worry, I'll push your job off on LLD. uo.ou/)<unvote>

(L-8)

In post 726, Nero Cain wrote:

In post 724, Flipping Awesome wrote:Also, I read through Nero Cain's scumgame and realized that the markers that I'm using for him aren't as good as I originally thought so I need a reset especially since my other head disagrees.

Or maybe PA is just an idiot and you shouldn't listen to her. Now vote scum Venmar with me.

Heh, of all the people in this game I expected to call me an idiot justifiably, you didn't actually crack the top ten. And if you read what F-16 said, you'll note that he determined that he'd called you town too hastily all on his own. And while I know F-16 has updated reads incoming, you'd actually be better off appealing to me to join you on the Venmar wagon.

--PA

In post 733, Sixty wrote:An easy target. Or did you forget how so many people were like "sangres is being annoying, VOTE VOTE VOTE" in the early game?

Not so many votes, really. That was a long time ago in forum game time, and Nero seems quite attached to the read.

Oh please. Lynching/mislynching your friends is half the fun of this game.
The other half being enjoying working together to catch the scum but etc.
I'm very upset, everything is closed for Easter so I can't get a bottle of wine anywhere and I'm not sure if posting while sober is something I should do anymore. On the other hand I think something snapped last night because watching a kitten on a roomba made me deliriously happy.

In post 719, Untrod Tripod wrote: And I keep opening the thread and then closing it again because Shadoweh's ridiculous histrionics make me just want to die inside. Shadoweh I'm begging you: I've played games with you and you're a GREAT player when you're not flipping the fuck out like this. Please take a chill pill and help us hunt scum. I'd bet my bottom boondollar that scum are trying to make you a nonfactor by needling you out of the game.

Do you think either chamber or Cerulean are scum? Or NS? I appreciate the sentiment and I wish I could believe it were true, but there aren't alot of options for it here, so I don't know who those needlers would be.

I was kind of hoping to just sheep Sixty on Reckoner when I got home, but just looking at where their vote is right now is triggering me again. I'm aware that I -should- move just because no one else is going to end the standoff, but I still have no idea where else to go. Reading Venmar's scumgame he actually seems like he tries to be a nice guy scum and he was never like that from the start here. (Even if I think his hate-on for Curelean is more ridiculous then his rage vote on Cain). I'm pretty sure the only one on that list I agree on is Tim Howard still, so:

VOTE: Tim Howard

hello?

camn someone w. a town read on zedio tell me why hes town thank you

In post 180, Sixty wrote:

Zdenek wrote:

In post 171, Sixty wrote:Zdenek, why are we Town?

Where did I say that I think you are town?
I didn't by the way.
I said that I was going to defend you for a bit for a change of pace.
If Tierce doesn't get that, I don't know what to say.

Fair enoof!

how come your okay w. this

@P_A: There may be a puppy in it for you if you pre-empt F-16 by voting Nero Cain.

sangres 735 wrote:Not so many votes, really. That was a long time ago in forum game time, and Nero seems quite attached to the read.

Nero Cain 534 wrote:I don't really have much of a case on Sangres other than gut/that early no lynch vote was dumb and some other reasoning I rather not go into right now. And mmmaaaayyybbbeee bussin' Kat.

yyyyyyeah okay
Your vote on Katsuki's going to be a bit lonely after plane-penguin moves. Would you like to move to some different scum?

---

Shadoweh 736 wrote:Oh please. Lynching/mislynching your friends is half the fun of this game.

If you want to go back to where you were before the kitten-on-roomba action we can start reminding you of your faults and failures. Let me know.

Also, spoiler alert, UT is buddying hard and there's no actual substance behind what he said. For instance, if he thought either of the puppyhalves were *really* good at Mafia he wouldn't be keeping his vote on Venmar because ______.

---

Hi kanye! Read like any post made about Zdenek that isn't by someone voting him please & ty

iom wroking on it : ]

Yes, I had noticed that and it might possibly be why I questioned the part directed at me, but unless you were going to go back there my vote wasn't doing anything so.
Besides playing mafia has to be a sign of masochism, go ahead and tell me how terrible I am, just don't ask me to get really mad for real about it and then be surprised if I do. :V

In post 740, Sixty wrote:For instance, if he thought either of the puppyhalves were *really* good at Mafia he wouldn't be keeping his vote on Venmar because ______.

I can disagree with people I respect. In this case I do.

oh huh maybe zeds not scuim.

In post 736, Shadoweh wrote:Do you think either chamber or Cerulean are scum? Or NS? I appreciate the sentiment and I wish I could believe it were true, but there aren't alot of options for it here, so I don't know who those needlers would be.

I'm reading chamber as town. I thought Cerulean's early posts were incredibly scummy, but they've been towntelling lately. I could absolutely support a Cerulean wagon though.

NS I could vote just for policy tbqh.

In post 740, Sixty wrote: Your vote on Katsuki's going to be a bit lonely after plane-penguin moves. Would you like to move to some different scum?

This is pretty disingenuous.

-Nobody Special

i cheated and peaked at the l8est vote count.sry all ive sinned

Continuing from Post 221, minus the townread on Nero Cain.

TOWN:

• I thought that Chamber's Post 647 felt incredibly town and captures my thought process almost exactly upon receiving a red role PM. My thoughts went something like "Dammit, scum...
  please let Cerulean/Sangres also be scum so they can be miserable too as opposed to gleefully lynch us
  ...where's the list of our partners?...oh, wait no, we're TOWN, awesome!" I find it incredibly unlikely that Chamber divined that sort of thought process just by reading a role PM in the OP because it resonates a lot and I can townread Chamber off of this alone. Penguin disagrees because she doesn't mind playing scum and didn't have the same thoughts upon seeing the role PM but still reads Chamber town overall anyways.
  
• I liked Chamber's confidence in his obvtownness. I also thought that him asking Zdenek to frame him because he can tell who visited him feels decently pro-town and helpful in seeing that Zdenek at least isn't lying about the entirety of his role even if it isn't conclusive evidence and I felt that the conversation spawned naturally from posts 460, 486, 502, and 504. Penguin also agreed that Chamber effectively making himself a miller takes away some of her worries about him and I think it pressures him to obvtown himself more.
  
• Chamber's nitpicky push on Shadoweh and intent in getting to the bottom of her thought process feels like genuine scumhunting and his wanting Shadoweh to be town in Post 731 came off very naturally and feels town.

• CDB's push on Shadoweh in Post 327 feels a lot more like his general pushes as town based on what I've seen of him in the past. His posts just have that natural, unforced air that wasn't presented in the first Harry Potter game (linked in our CDB meta post).
  
• The way he handled his townread on Tim Howard and the insistence on waiting felt like he didn't want to give out more information just yet and the confidence with which he presented his reads and the timing of it felt more likely to be town than scum. It felt like he was trying to derail what he thought was a bad wagon. While he could be whiteknighting, I think there would be several ways to do it which doesn't push people off the wagon like expressing some uncertainty, and if he is protecting a buddy, it will be apparent soon and his overall approach felt town.
  
• I liked his 659. For one, being on the same page as me with regard to Zdenek and then working with Tim Howard telling them that Zdenek is town felt townish. I also thought that his reads list in his earlier Post 328 were plausible based on his take on the game so far.

• Penguin figured that their general antagonistic nature rang town and she liked their originality in their scumhunting. While I initially found it odd that they kept disagreeing on the minutae of Cerulean's points, we both agree that it would have been easier to let it slide rather than gripe about read reasoning.
  
• I agree with a lot of the points and reads that they brought up in Post 714 and it mirrors what I am thinking for the most part and I can get behind their viewpoint of the game. I'd still like to discuss your read on Chamber because it is looking really obvious to me that he is town. But I can see that POV from someone who has a townread on Shadoweh and hadn't yet seen Chamber's response about him wanting Shadoweh to be town. Not sure what they are going on about with their read on us and I think it is fairly obvious that we are a hydra and have played plenty of games onsite. I also felt for the most part that their efforts to move the game forward felt genuine and I liked most of their content. I also like their comfort level and pro-active desire to work with a playerlist like this one.
  
• Empire thinks they are town (which I think is an actual reason to read them as town after the Black Flag game). I am holding out for a stronger read to see if Tierce obvtowns herself at some point which she would if town.

So, overall, here's where we are at. We'll start doing those meta-dives to refine this list soon. Would like to hear if anyone has thought about these reads.

Town (Strongest->Weakest): Cerulean, Chamber, LLD, Sangres, CDB, Zdenek, Sixty
Scum are among:

~ F-16

Also, want to look over Nero Cain's meta to solidify a read there.

Nero Cain:
TOWN: Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Legacy, NY 160: Terrible Melodrama, Open 505, NY164: Maniacal Street, Fire Emblem
SCUM: Imperial Intrigue

I was in the first two towngames, Penguin was in the others. Neither of us played with scum-Nero.

~ F-16