Hot damn, I suck. I can only put this down to being out of practise.Seol wrote:Fuldu, why did you target VitaminR last night instead of me?
VitR and JDodge, why do you think I'm (likely) scum?
Hot damn, I suck. I can only put this down to being out of practise.Seol wrote:Fuldu, why did you target VitaminR last night instead of me?
Personally, since it's either you, VitR or Fuldu, I find you to be semi-unlikely for your role. I have the same qualms about VitR as well, though.Seol wrote:Hot damn, I suck. I can only put this down to being out of practise.Seol wrote:Fuldu, why did you target VitaminR last night instead of me?
VitR and JDodge, why do you think I'm (likely) scum?
What do you mean by that? Hell, he could be a roleblocker that blocked Fritz for all we know.VitaminR wrote:Okay, that pretty much confirms you.Seol wrote:Fuldu wrote:I got human on SweenyTodd.
Seol, you make a strong case, but I'm still bothered by his "no result" claim earlier today. The fact that he was the first to claim it speaks strongly in his favour. How do you see that?
Speaks strongly in his favour how? What do you think happened last night, and how do the events of today support that?VitaminR wrote:Seol, you make a strong case, but I'm still bothered by his "no result" claim earlier today. The fact that he was the first to claim it speaks strongly in his favour. How do you see that?
What scenario are you imagining in which Fuldu claiming to be blocked before Fritzler suggests that Fuldu is more likely to be innocent?VitaminR wrote:I see little reason for Fuldu to throw that complication out there, though. Why then claim the "no result" himself?
It just casts doubts on the whole thing.
No, as in: What scenario were you imagining?VitaminR wrote:As in: there's no scenario in which it makes sense for a pro-town Fuldu to claim that, but not for a scum Fuldu?
Yes, that's true. I hadn't looked at it that way.
This was the situation you had in mind originally, when you said:VitaminR wrote:I had the first scenario in mind, but, thinking about it, I can see two more.
1) Fuldu is a scum roleblocker. In that case, I don't see why he claimed to be blocked. If only Fritzler were to have claimed a "no result," I would have just assumed that the remaining scum is a roleblocker. It wouldn't have pointed at Fuldu. I don't think see his motivation for making it this complicated.
Am I understanding you correctly?VitaminR wrote:The fact that he was the first to claim it speaks strongly in his favour.
a) Have you ever seen a role which blocks all pro-town roles but not anti-town roles before?2) Pro-town roles were blocked. The nightkill suggests that anti-town roles weren't. In this scenario, I don't see how Fuldu would have known.
a) When did this possibility occur to you?3) Thesp had a martyr-type role. Failing his post restriction meant dying the next night, but also blocking all night actions.
3) doesn't actually seem all that unlikely. Hmm.
Yes. I was approaching it from the opposite angle, I suppose. I couldn't see him doing it in the Fulduscum scenario I had in mind. I had been thinking of the second scenario earlier, but it applies equally really.Seol wrote:This was the situation you had in mind originally, when you said:VitaminR wrote:I had the first scenario in mind, but, thinking about it, I can see two more.
1) Fuldu is a scum roleblocker. In that case, I don't see why he claimed to be blocked. If only Fritzler were to have claimed a "no result," I would have just assumed that the remaining scum is a roleblocker. It wouldn't have pointed at Fuldu. I don't think see his motivation for making it this complicated.Am I understanding you correctly?VitaminR wrote:The fact that he was the first to claim it speaks strongly in his favour.
I have once seen something similar (ongoing game, though).Seol wrote:a) Have you ever seen a role which blocks all pro-town roles but not anti-town roles before?2) Pro-town roles were blocked. The nightkill suggests that anti-town roles weren't. In this scenario, I don't see how Fuldu would have known.
It could be a scum ability, but that seems problematic. It could possibly be a one-shot scum role (otherwise it's hideously overpowered), but I don't see why that wouldn't be used Night 1. It seems far more likely that it is the latter.Seol wrote:b) Blocked by what/whom? I'm assuming it's not town, seeing as nobody's claimed such an ability, we've all fully claimed, and that's not something a townie would lie about - unless, are you suggesting there might be a pro-town role which can block all pro-town roles but not anti-town roleswithout being aware of it?
While I was typing that up, actually.Seol wrote:a) When did this possibility occur to you?3) Thesp had a martyr-type role. Failing his post restriction meant dying the next night, but also blocking all night actions.
3) doesn't actually seem all that unlikely. Hmm.
I think it is a distinct possibility. His posting restriction reminds me of my role in Verbose Mafia (in which PJ played) and my punishment for failing it was dying in the night.Seol wrote:b) Do you believe Thesp's death was a result of him failing to satisfy his post restriction?
Oh, I think I get you. The situation that you thought had happened - Fuldu being a scum roleblocker - doesn't really make a huge amount of sense, so you were inclined to think that situation unlikely. So at the point when you made the comment, you didn't really have a situation in mind that you thought was plausible at all? Am I understanding you correctly?VitaminR wrote:Yes. I was approaching it from the opposite angle, I suppose. I couldn't see him doing it in the Fulduscum scenario I had in mind. I had been thinking of the second scenario earlier, but it applies equally really.Seol wrote:This was the situation you had in mind originally, when you said:VitaminR wrote:I had the first scenario in mind, but, thinking about it, I can see two more.
1) Fuldu is a scum roleblocker. In that case, I don't see why he claimed to be blocked. If only Fritzler were to have claimed a "no result," I would have just assumed that the remaining scum is a roleblocker. It wouldn't have pointed at Fuldu. I don't think see his motivation for making it this complicated.Am I understanding you correctly?VitaminR wrote:The fact that he was the first to claim it speaks strongly in his favour.
The key point is that if it's a scum role, that would explain how scum Fuldu would know about it.It could be a scum ability, but that seems problematic. It could possibly be a one-shot scum role (otherwise it's hideously overpowered), but I don't see why that wouldn't be used Night 1.
ie, town. Do you agree we can eliminate the possibility that it was an ability knowingly used by town?It seems far more likely that it is the latter.
No, that's a lie. It's occurred to you before.While I was typing that up, actually.Seol wrote:a) When did this possibility occur to you?3) Thesp had a martyr-type role. Failing his post restriction meant dying the next night, but also blocking all night actions.
3) doesn't actually seem all that unlikely. Hmm.
As you have already pointed out. However, the day-scene and MO is quite explicit that he was killed by an external force. If he was killed solely by his post restriction, the flavour is not just misleading, it is an out and out lie, despite MOs being both consistent to date and with the one exception to that consistency exactly what you would expect not only from the role functionality but the flavour of that role too.I think it is a distinct possibility. His posting restriction reminds me of my role in Verbose Mafia (in which PJ played) and my punishment for failing it was dying in the night.Seol wrote:b) Do you believe Thesp's death was a result of him failing to satisfy his post restriction?
Also, reading back, it is clear that he did fail his posting restriction.
Yes.Seol wrote:Oh, I think I get you. The situation that you thought had happened - Fuldu being a scum roleblocker - doesn't really make a huge amount of sense, so you were inclined to think that situation unlikely. So at the point when you made the comment, you didn't really have a situation in mind that you thought was plausible at all? Am I understanding you correctly?
Yes, but I can only really see it as a scum ability in a mafia roleblocker scenario.Seol wrote:The key point is that if it's a scum role, that would explain how scum Fuldu would know about it.
Yes.Seol wrote:Do you agree we can eliminate the possibility that it was an ability knowingly used by town?
Yes, as I've said before, I think Thesp's role may have caused a mass block. That is different from scenario 3 and that is what I had in mind earlier. This is not a lie:Seol wrote:Do you believe it is plausible it was an ability used by town, or caused by a town role, but unknowingly?
It only occurred to me while typing that that Thesp might have triggered his own death and blocked all other actions.Seol wrote:No, that's a lie. It's occurred to you before.While I was typing that up, actually.Seol wrote:a) When did this possibility occur to you?3) Thesp had a martyr-type role. Failing his post restriction meant dying the next night, but also blocking all night actions.
3) doesn't actually seem all that unlikely. Hmm.
That is a good point.Seol wrote:As you have already pointed out. However, the day-scene and MO is quite explicit that he was killed by an external force. If he was killed solely by his post restriction, the flavour is not just misleading, it is an out and out lie, despite MOs being both consistent to date and with the one exception to that consistency exactly what you would expect not only from the role functionality but the flavour of that role too.
VitaminR wrote:Yes.Seol wrote:Oh, I think I get you. The situation that you thought had happened - Fuldu being a scum roleblocker - doesn't really make a huge amount of sense, so you were inclined to think that situation unlikely. So at the point when you made the comment, you didn't really have a situation in mind that you thought was plausible at all? Am I understanding you correctly?
That's the situation where it makes sense, and that was yourVitaminR, Fir Aug 03 wrote:Alternatively, one of Fuldu/Fritz is a scum roleblocker lying about their result to cover themselves and spread confusion, but that doesn't seem all that likely.
Yes, as I've said before, I think Thesp's role may have caused a mass block.Seol wrote:Do you believe it is plausible it was an ability used by town, or caused by a town role, but unknowingly?
I thought you said that the theory you had in mind earlier was that Fuldu was a scum roleblocker, and you only just came up with that theory when questioned?That is different from scenario 3 and that is what I had in mind earlier. This is not a lie:
It only occurred to me while typing that that Thesp might have triggered his own death and blocked all other actions.Seol wrote:No, that's a lie. It's occurred to you before.While I was typing that up, actually.Seol wrote:a) When did this possibility occur to you?3) Thesp had a martyr-type role. Failing his post restriction meant dying the next night, but also blocking all night actions.
3) doesn't actually seem all that unlikely. Hmm.
VitaminR, on Fri Aug 03 wrote:Well, we seem to be dealing with a role that blocks all night actions. I thought Thesp's role may have been a trigger for that or something. In retrospect, that doesn't really make sense, because it help scum.
Explanation?VitaminR, on Fri Aug 03 wrote:Kind of a bad town role to have, though. A post restriction and a mass block. Perhaps he broke his post restriction the day before.
Actually, that works. Thesp posted something in caps every day except Day 4.