↑ itlepip wrote:
I think it's more a matter of empathy/an inside joke than an actual problem dealing with the game and alignment.
Sorry of a recognition of the fact that Klingon read Titus as being scummy but understood that that happened in the past to both of them and telling Titus she would give her more time before she made up her mind due to being under that kind of pressure before and hating it.
If this is true then there is quite a bit of irony to the situation, Klingon saw Titus as scum but have Grace hating the extra pressure she got and in return Titus put the pressure on Klingon.
It is the largest defense of Klingon because it defends the cornerstone of the argument against her.
To add onto and clarify this, itlepip, I think Klingon is being scummy, but not necessarily for the reasons brought against her. I think the fos might have been genuine, but addressing the posts she addressed instead of the main stuff and not sharing really any reads /not scumhunting, that's scummy.
That said, it's not really scummy enough for me to want to lynch her over Elyse, and her things can be explained by misunderstandings, quirkiness, mistakes. They're small and repetitive, something scum is rarely guilty of, in my experience.
Anyways, that's my thoughts on her.
↑ itlepip wrote: ↑ Extrapolated Eagle wrote:@itlepip I will respond to your argument for Klingon if you respond to my argument for Elyse. Otherwise there's very little point in trying to discuss this with me
I think Elyse is scummy, but in your little review post you omitted
273 where her points seem a lot better than yours. Especially about whiteknighting and some misrepping that happened.
That's true and I will relinquish that her argument in that post was perhaps a bit better than my own, but I do not believe the argument against her is truly defined by her ability to respond and act and wave off accusations, because these are the things, I think, that make scum more often than town
To add to this part, misrepping as town is something that's often going to happen. Peoplemake mistakes, especially when they can't see all the answers. Misunderstandings happen. However, that post in no way represents my entire argument against Elyse, and making it seem less /trying to take the legs out from under it. Like I said, I am constantly reevaluating my read on Elyse and constantly finding new things against her. I'm not seeing many truly protown posts from her, and to be honest, not many attempts at it either.
↑ Spifflop wrote: ↑ Extrapolated Eagle wrote:. I'm ok with hounding, but he just states "wrong" kinda and it's really frustrating to deal with. Klingon has at least until day 2 to prove herself in my opinion, there's scummier stuff in the pond.
stuff like this bothers me though. You don't get to dictate where the lynch goes. And delaying a lynch is almost always a scum-thing, seriously.
Sorry, I should restate: I don't have a problem with people voting Klingon. The story could definitely go that she's scum. However the other side of the story is still plausible enough to me to not want to vote her yet. And I don't see scum motivation behind her posts. The posts merely seen scummy in and of themselves instead of telling a story. So I would prefer for the lynch to be Elyse today over anyone else, but you're right, I don't have the power to make everyone vote for her.
Eagle, I think your case is solid. I've read it over 3 times. I'm not sure what the scum motivation is? Can you explain WHY she do those strange things?
Staying away from being the first one on the wagon is something scum will do just to avoid the largest amount of scrutiny that the first and last people often come under on a mislynch
Votes hopping is a good way to keep the attention and votes stacking on people. It's part of a bandwagon effect. You see a lot of voting for one person, you assume the crowd is right and you'll vote for someone. A single vote has a hard time getting off the ground but two votes put it in motion. Finally, it makes it seem like the wagons aren't going stale, because you keep seeing votes for Klingon and votes for me, people who skim see us as coming under a lot of pressure/think we're getting voted and then bandwagon effect makes them think that if there are a lot of people doing it, then it must be right. I feel like this could have been more succinctly worded, but if I didn't get the message across let me know and I'll try to clear it up
Not pushing votes does two things
1. Similarly to avoiding being first and last on a wagon, the fact that when people come back to see why this person was lynched when they were town, they look, see no push coming out of Elyse, and all of a sudden she's town because she was just sheeping.
2. It keeps people from responding with too much serious content, pushing to the point where it becomes obvious person is town. To the point where they release their feelings under frustration and then it's one more nk they have to perform because they have a hard time pushing that lynch
3. It makes her look active and involved, when she's really kind of sidelining.
The mediocrity is her not blatantly making friends or enemies because it could convict/vingtième them later if for some reason she flips, or make her look suspicious if they flip. Notice how kind she is to Gwen when she scum reads her?
The not sharing reads let's her vote hop like mad or say whatever she wants/needs about someone, when she wants/needs to say it. No one can convict her of contradicting herself when there isn't anything there to contradict. Also goes back kind of to the mediocrity thing- how are you going to search for buddies if she didn't explicitly read anyone as not scum/defend anyone. Notice how she shares one mild town read here and another one there so they're very spread apart and can be hard to find, and even if you did she could always say it changed because they're so far apart
The avoiding lynch bait is a good way to get town cred for looking like you defended someone and stuck your neck out for them when you did not. This isn't necessarily scummy, but voting someone on the wagon without actually town reading the lynchbait is. She went to an extreme (voting) to share her opinion that it is lynch bait without actually having that town read of the lynch bait itself.
This is all the things I can think of right now, but be sure to let me know if I missed one or two and I'll actually go back and make sure I got em all in a minute
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Ebwop