Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gamma Emerald]

I seem to recall pointing out that I ask about day chat all the time regardless of alignment due to a thing that happened in one of my newbie games

I have many opinions of Irrelephant11 but I will wait for your write ups on other players (as in anyone except you, but including the thoughts about me) to give you a chance to change my mind first

First point: I was inquiring about what Irrelephant said, not you
Second point: is this at me, and wtf does it mean?

[Bernie Sanders]

@Irrelephant and others
How aggressive or confident can nauci scum be?
704 reads as a genuine push to me where nauci does believe irrelephant may be scum rather than trying to make him look bad for call him "scummy" (there is a distinction)
Furthermore there is an element of confidence I'm getting there which most scum usually do not exude and IIRC nauci was described as a casual or avoid attention scum player earlier

[skitter30]

i'm kinda gut-townreading gamma atm but i have literally no justification for it besides gut

[Keyser Söze]

i'm kinda gut-townreading gamma atm but i have literally no justification for it besides gut

WIFOM is fueling the hope I have that Gamma can turn this around for himself and lead us to salvation.

[Irrelephant11]

btw if the goal was to make me feel pressured and off balance I sure do feel that way nauci

I'm at work like

[Bernie Sanders]

Reading the worst in 1870 does a ton of heavy lifting for the game even super early and does a ton of just picking at things in general (in a useful way). Highlight this as well on what he says his approach would be if not much in scumreads which hasn't really happened either, mostly other people have been engaging him not other way around

Now OTOH sharing is caring scum TW still does seem to throw some votes around more (suggesting TW is just less interested here even compared to say his scum games) though his play is a lot more fluffy and there's less focus with his pokes (it reads more random which is what this game feels like).

In Pick your power as town again I see a lot more focus and direction in TW. I get the impression that while TW has some fluff or fun in games it's more balanced as town whereas here it dominates and I'm left wondering what he's doing or trying to accomplish

RE: Low interest
TW has claimed very low interest in this game and this is just almost certainly the case regardless of his alignment. However speculation as to why TW is not interested here is relevant IMO

A) replaced into scumread slot as town and not feeling it
I know this can be a thing that happens but this is exactly why I try to avoid immediate harsh pressure/judgment on replacement slots in general. But I've held out, I don't think TW was given that much of a hard time on replace, and I think he got a fair whack of time to get comfortable but still didn't really impress with it. If anyone thinks I'm being way off base with this judgment of the situation please say so but I feeling like I've been pretty charitable here and not confbias

B) replaced into scumread slot as scum and the "dead inside over it" tell
My impression is scum generally have a lot worse time dealing with replacing into bad situations exactly because they're overly self conscious about it and they feel the case against them as worse than it may actually look (because if scum they know what is likely-but-uncertain evidence to others is actually true and so the case is more solid from that viewpoint). I had a game that really highlighted to me here where I thought transcend had an okay chance of defending and there were other viable lynches but he acted very uncharacteristically defeated because of the situation he found himself, to the point where I wondered why he replaced in at all if not to play. Granted that's more extreme a situation than here and there also were PRs involved which did make the game very unlikely for him though he could've easily still survived that given day

Didn't think this would get this long. Again, very interested to hear cross reference with people with experience, atm skitter and nauci if anything have a similar take and others (@@@Mathdino) IIRC haven't spoken up much yet. I may have missed something though so please highlight it if so.

[stungun0404]

catching up, on page 24 at the sec, but I sincerely don’t understand how @the worst’s top townread is BS. he is the nulliest of all nulls for me, if anything so far.

[Bernie Sanders]

Granted all that said it is still possible I'm looking too much into this; I can see for ex: with my focus on TW and math an invisibility or maybe even momrangal scum (would be weird association though) skating by at this point
I don't really see the case for nauci and TBH it may be early to say but I'm feeling like best

husbando

lynch today is probably going to be between TW and invis barring more information coming up

[Bernie Sanders]

Keyser if you put your sus on me aside for the moment who do you think is scum?

I kinda question the motive of this type of post: it reads like trying to subtly make someone drop the read they're being told to set aside

HMM didnt we go through this in clownspiracy

Don't recall that, please point it out?

Wasn't that like all of our exchange for that latter entire day

that and me pleading to put aside the D1 associations

[Mathdino]

I'll give you credit for saying it first
But yeah I'm not a big fan of the worst
In other news, I caught a towntell on Nauci
I'm sadly still scumreading her but I won't be as bossy

The worst or Gamma Emerald, those are my two picks
Gimme better wagons, it's how I get my kicks

VOTE: GEmerald

[Bernie Sanders]

I have multiple townreads but no scumreads
gonna re-read the people with wagons on em, but later cos I'm gonna watch anime for a bit

I mean you could sheep

[Bernie Sanders]

Math what's your read on invis BTW

[Gamma Emerald]

I have multiple townreads but no scumreads
gonna re-read the people with wagons on em, but later cos I'm gonna watch anime for a bit

I mean you could sheep

I mean I'd vote the worst but he's already got a big wagon right

[Mathdino]

Invisibility the liability
I have no capability
To read that guy's senility
I see it as futility
Now I have humility

When your record for reading is 0%
Trying to do it is just time misspent

[Bernie Sanders]

@Bernie Sanders - I think you're gonna have to sit me down and talk through the player list with me. I am convinced you've been holding back strategically (scum motivation). Soft-footing around. You're still a

scum lean

.

Feel free to ask any specific questions but I can't really say anything as to you having a problem with my approach in general, which I'd agree with. Strategic is extremely fitting.

[Bernie Sanders]

Please please promise me when you get to desktop and do like ISO walls (which I think is what you promised) they won't also all be rhyming as well

[skitter30]

Didn't think this would get this long. Again, very interested to hear cross reference with people with experience, atm skitter and nauci if anything have a similar take and others (@@@Mathdino) IIRC haven't spoken up much yet. I may have missed something though so please highlight it if so.

he feels uncharacteristically low energy for town!him. i've never played with scum him, so idk what his scum!meta is, but this feels very different from previous town games he's played.

i don't know if it's an irl thing or a scum thing though, and he did indicate that he thinks he can engage better later in the week.

i think i'm OK with waiting a few days irl for that to happen because the more i think about it i'm not sure if the differences are actually game-related or like AI in any way.

for now VOTE: irrelephant but i'll prob return to the duck if he doesn't contribute by eod.

[Nauci]

I seem to recall pointing out that I ask about day chat all the time regardless of alignment due to a thing that happened in one of my newbie games

I have many opinions of Irrelephant11 but I will wait for your write ups on other players (as in anyone except you, but including the thoughts about me) to give you a chance to change my mind first

First point: I was inquiring about what Irrelephant said, not you
Second point: is this at me, and wtf does it mean?

I was responding to Irrelephant's post but quoting is kind of a mess on mobile sorry

[Mathdino]

Please please promise me when you get to desktop and do like ISO walls (which I think is what you promised) they won't also all be rhyming as well

THAT'S RACIST, be patient
My persuasive cases
Are spacious and based in
The greatest of basis

[Nauci]

Reading the worst in 1870 does a ton of heavy lifting for the game even super early and does a ton of just picking at things in general (in a useful way). Highlight this as well on what he says his approach would be if not much in scumreads which hasn't really happened either, mostly other people have been engaging him not other way around

Now OTOH sharing is caring scum TW still does seem to throw some votes around more (suggesting TW is just less interested here even compared to say his scum games) though his play is a lot more fluffy and there's less focus with his pokes (it reads more random which is what this game feels like).

In Pick your power as town again I see a lot more focus and direction in TW. I get the impression that while TW has some fluff or fun in games it's more balanced as town whereas here it dominates and I'm left wondering what he's doing or trying to accomplish

RE: Low interest
TW has claimed very low interest in this game and this is just almost certainly the case regardless of his alignment. However speculation as to why TW is not interested here is relevant IMO

A) replaced into scumread slot as town and not feeling it
I know this can be a thing that happens but this is exactly why I try to avoid immediate harsh pressure/judgment on replacement slots in general. But I've held out, I don't think TW was given that much of a hard time on replace, and I think he got a fair whack of time to get comfortable but still didn't really impress with it. If anyone thinks I'm being way off base with this judgment of the situation please say so but I feeling like I've been pretty charitable here and not confbias

B) replaced into scumread slot as scum and the "dead inside over it" tell
My impression is scum generally have a lot worse time dealing with replacing into bad situations exactly because they're overly self conscious about it and they feel the case against them as worse than it may actually look (because if scum they know what is likely-but-uncertain evidence to others is actually true and so the case is more solid from that viewpoint). I had a game that really highlighted to me here where I thought transcend had an okay chance of defending and there were other viable lynches but he acted very uncharacteristically defeated because of the situation he found himself, to the point where I wondered why he replaced in at all if not to play. Granted that's more extreme a situation than here and there also were PRs involved which did make the game very unlikely for him though he could've easily still survived that given day

Didn't think this would get this long. Again, very interested to hear cross reference with people with experience, atm skitter and nauci if anything have a similar take and others (@@@Mathdino) IIRC haven't spoken up much yet. I may have missed something though so please highlight it if so.

I think I had a harder time participating in my last game because I was scum, even though I was pretty enthusiastic about the game as a whole (see scum PT spam). I didn't make my giant catch up post in time despite writing up 1400 words in a .txt (which is why I portioned it out here as I went instead of waiting until fully caught up), and got replaced out because AFK. Brass subbed into my slot and also got hit with the apathy hammer even though I've seen him pull off some fantastic posting as town, so I suspect that it affected him. Quick picked it up last and didn't even read the game/try much and I suspect because he also felt defeated about being scum but also that being lower activity actively helped the slot a lot.

It's anecdata but lends the theory credibility, IMO.

[Bernie Sanders]

Minor note but gammas nonchalance is potentially indicative if scum that partner(s) aren't under pressure (e.g. probably not TW). FTR I'm assuming 10:3 for now though I realise it's theme queue.

[Bernie Sanders]

I think I had a harder time participating in my last game because I was scum, even though I was pretty enthusiastic about the game as a whole (see scum PT spam). I didn't make my giant catch up post in time despite writing up 1400 words in a .txt (which is why I portioned it out here as I went instead of waiting until fully caught up), and got replaced out because AFK. Brass subbed into my slot and also got hit with the apathy hammer even though I've seen him pull off some fantastic posting as town, so I suspect that it affected him. Quick picked it up last and didn't even read the game/try much and I suspect because he also felt defeated about being scum but also that being lower activity actively helped the slot a lot.

It's anecdata but lends the theory credibility, IMO.

Mmm I don't doubt the theory it's just always a case of how much it applies specifically (I can almost guarantee the trend on average but on the individual level there's so many extra variables)

[Keyser Söze]

for now VOTE: irrelephant but i'll prob return to the duck if he doesn't contribute by eod.

Is Irrelephant scum in isolation for you? Or does it include any associations?

Moreover, how does this work with Irrelephant’s scum read of TW... (Irrelephant thought he and Shoshin had this game solved earlier...) so what is Nauci? A distraction, a bus, a counter wagon away from his scum teammate?

[skitter30]

i try not to focus on associatives pre-flip because i kinda get fucked over if i think about it too much without real data, and then tend to find evidence that fits the theory instead of the other way around.

he probably isn't scum with nauci, but i dislike that he lampshaded the associatve in

Hey at least now you can all probably see that me/Nauci isn’t s/s wooo

if nauci is scum with him she'd have to have literally started a bussing wagon which i find kinda unlikely.

irrelephant doesn't have a read on tw as far as i can tell?

this is the last time 'the worst' appears in his ISO by ctrl+f; he doesn't mention gemini or 'duck' anywhere at all.

I can't read the worst tell me more

shoshin just listed a scumpool of five (incidentally including tw) and he was like, ok, sure, that's cool, lets be buddies now; i don't think that has much significance wrt tw being a potential irrelephant partner. i'm actually more concerned about the buddying he was doing there-ish to shoshin than his tw read, especially since she was focusing more on other players in that pool at the time (ie me), so if tw was theoretically a partner he might not be too worried that town!her had FOS'd partner!tw there. basically i don't think shoshin's scumread of tw there is really significant or indicative of partners either way.

[Nauci]

I think I had a harder time participating in my last game because I was scum, even though I was pretty enthusiastic about the game as a whole (see scum PT spam). I didn't make my giant catch up post in time despite writing up 1400 words in a .txt (which is why I portioned it out here as I went instead of waiting until fully caught up), and got replaced out because AFK. Brass subbed into my slot and also got hit with the apathy hammer even though I've seen him pull off some fantastic posting as town, so I suspect that it affected him. Quick picked it up last and didn't even read the game/try much and I suspect because he also felt defeated about being scum but also that being lower activity actively helped the slot a lot.

It's anecdata but lends the theory credibility, IMO.

Mmm I don't doubt the theory it's just always a case of how much it applies specifically (I can almost guarantee the trend on average but on the individual level there's so many extra variables)

So the games I previously skimmed led me to believe that TW is more bullshitty and less tryhard when scum, but he claims it's just general apathy.

I think this calls for asking for links to more apathetic town or tryhard scum games.

I do think that tw tends to step in more when the rest of the game is more laid back, and vice versa.

P.S. to any town PR out there, don't crumb one damn thing because Math is purportedly a PR killer with a super high rate of PR murdering if scum. According to him in that one game, at least, where he spent a ton of time self metaing.

@Math: wait are you going to actively try to change your meta to be less readable like in this game but also fall on your meta to defend yourself a lot

You can only have one of those things