Mafiascum.net

i also liked their start - middle end but the end got a bit wonky.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10547758

Comparing my iso stance to yours how do you feel? just curious, I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta so genuinely wanna engage w someone about this

I like your reaction post.

Hm I disliked the start but have liked more lately. Funny.

In post 551, the worst wrote: [snip keyser stuff]

creature is infamous from the old days for freezing up and zero posting / replacing out as scum.

which he hasnt frozen up right? hes had 155 posts and is one of the highest posters?

his scumgame has developped a lot (refer Heroes Wanted) but he is not a strong force.

again, hes not posting many reads but hes active

he struggles with posting regularly, sorting players, displaying faked nuanced reads and expressing questions in a tangible fashion.

ok this i can see, while he has been regularaly posting, he hasnt really sorted MANY players, and i actually LIKE the fact that he doesn't fake reads, and thats what gives me the townread(or one of the reasons

as scum he also struggles with answering simple questions and providing reads when asked under pressure.

he has given a few reads, and i feel a lot of what he's posted, as well as feeling scum would just bullshit a read or two to answer it instead of taking fire

as town he is very comfortable with his living ITT thing but he's also very rarely unable to handle real time interactions.

but he has done real-time interactions

he does regularly talk about game-related stuff, sure he often doesn't have highly nuanced reads but his reads are at least SOMEWHAT reasoned and usually better than level-0 town, and he is very capable of asking questions and engaging with players. he is also capable of at least pretending to pressure players as town. current scum!Creature meta is basically teasing players with what he thinks is a semblance of his towngame, but in reality I actually think it's easy to sort. Just not as easy as it used to be.

the rest of this is all understandable

Appendix I: things i wish i townread
long name: a generous showing of his entire game related ISO and why it is obvscum bullshit

Spoiler: 9 posts of a 98 post iso

In post 176, Creature wrote:

In post 6, LabRat01 wrote:

In post 1, ManateeDude wrote:

Mafia Role PM

You are a

Goon

(aligned with the town).

Your teammates are: […]
You can talk to them at any time on the mafia chat. [Link]

Each phase you may vote a player in order to send them to Heaven or Hell.

You win when majority of the Mafia is sent to Heaven.
You lose when majority of the Mafia is sent to Hell.

[link] to the game thread.

[/spoiler snipped]

btw

@manatee

, just noticed that you put "aligned with the

town

" in the example mafia role-card

lmao

you can be town

this is unexplained shit but for the sake of the exercise let's pretend it's a real read

{lab}
{null}

In post 218, Creature wrote:

In post 136, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde wrote:What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

You're probably only right on TW.

i'm someone who has correctly nailed him as scum more than once and who he works well with as town
i had almost zero posted

there is absolutely no chance he's itt lolscumreading me this early and doing nothing about it. but let's pretend he is.

{lab}
{null}
{tw}

In post 219, Creature wrote:

In post 144, Keyser Söze wrote:(I have good feels so far: not in terms of current tangible reads, but I think nearly everyone who’s been posting will be easier to sort down the line.

Well except for Carmen’s single post

).

Which I read town for some reason

ok then,,,???

{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw}

In post 317, Creature wrote:

In post 278, Keyser Söze wrote:Me same level as creature?

Yeah, you're probably below

why when how what who what how when
{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw, keyser???}

In post 323, Creature wrote:Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

In post 331, Creature wrote:

In post 304, Irrelephant11 wrote:My first thought is I caught scum!tw from Presidents but my second thought is that I could maybe come around
Oh and creature, talk to me more on that slot @tw

He did enough for me to hesitate on

ooook

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

In post 475, Creature wrote:

In post 472, the worst wrote:Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}


this is a viable wagon option which i've been pushing as a viable wagon option for ages
creature has implied he doesn't townread you and has a free vote

his hesitation is never town indicative, is scum indicative and is very very slightly partner indicative

In post 476, Creature wrote:because he rolled scum but not with you?

In post 479, Creature wrote:

In post 477, the worst wrote:I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

still not voting

as a caveat he spent this entire conversation avoiding engaging with me about any reads or the current state of the game

this didn't real feel very effective, and seemed like a lot of assumptions IMO.

Appendix II: scum indicators
posts spent applying incorrect self-meta, ridiculing others' scumreads without engagement, explicitly squirming and avoiding producing content, including posts in response to being actively pressed to produce content and displaying a wish for real time interactions while actively squirming in real time interactions

i will not be commenting on these because the appendix name makes my commentary fairly obvious

Spoiler: 35 posts of 98 post iso

In post 202, Creature wrote:

In post 98, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde wrote:Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

You've been in that game where I've been humilatingly called low-threat.

In post 203, Creature wrote:also I don't zeropost intentionally for too long as scum

In post 220, Creature wrote:

In post 149, Keyser Söze wrote:

In post 145, LabRat01 wrote:

In post 135, Keyser Söze wrote:That's weird, I've just been handed a note:

"I WILL BE LURKING FOR THE REST OF DAY 1. F**K META!"

- C R E A T U R E

is it a joke, or what? I don't get it

Sorry my bad joke - I was amused by the

'if Creature lurks he's scum'

post

Town!me could easily say that.

In post 221, Creature wrote:Sometimes I have a good reason to lurk

In post 223, Creature wrote:

In post 156, Irrelephant11 wrote:oh fun, I didn't know I was interacting with an alt
I probably will never guess who you are because I always guess alts wrong, so enjoy knowing me while I don't know you!

It wasn't obvious it was an alt?

In post 226, Creature wrote:I'm gonna aim for the long game.

Find one scum per hell phase
One town per heaven phase

In post 318, Creature wrote:Also I'd probably rave a lot during RVS like I did when I entered this thread.

In post 319, Creature wrote:Goons aligned with the town seems funny. I wouldn't notice it myself though.

In post 323, Creature wrote:Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

In post 329, Creature wrote:

In post 325, the worst wrote:actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip

Oh cool, you've become sheepsaysmeep 2.0

In post 330, Creature wrote:

In post 325, the worst wrote:if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

So can I

In post 332, Creature wrote:tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell.

In post 336, Creature wrote:

In post 334, the worst wrote:we actually just hydra'd in a game, maybe i've learned more from him than i realised?

Learned to misread me like three games a row from him?

In post 337, Creature wrote:

In post 334, the worst wrote:do it I dare you!

Are they doing it now?

In post 338, Creature wrote:tbh if I did it rn it simply wouldn't be natural

In post 459, Creature wrote:

In post 434, the worst wrote:In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

You'll be a great scientist.

In post 464, Creature wrote:

In post 462, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde wrote:His saying that he doesn't do this or that as scum when its stuff he's doing it looks extremely scummy.

Never heard of this scumtell.

In post 466, Creature wrote:Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

In post 470, Creature wrote:Give me one flipped scum then

In post 471, Creature wrote:This game seems filled with players that are a pain to read.

In post 475, Creature wrote:

In post 472, the worst wrote:Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

In post 479, Creature wrote:

In post 477, the worst wrote:I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

In post 486, Creature wrote:

In post 480, the worst wrote:Creature man why can't you just bus like a normal cheeky scumfuck? You're making this too obvious

idk though, I have about 37,5% to be right and I'm not sure this is worth the risk.

In post 493, Creature wrote:

In post 487, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde wrote:

In post 466, Creature wrote:Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Exactly.

Oh, so you used to play mafia where scum automatically make themselves the most distinct possible from textbook (meh I forgot what was the term) townplay?

In post 498, Creature wrote:Oh yeah, that game where I was afraid to post anything, had to come up with something to satisfy town (including returning to page 1 and pretending to be "catching up") and faking complete ignorance about the setup (hence why I didn't talk about it even when the Math thing was obviously scum).

In post 502, Creature wrote:It's like normal for me to have a low content:spam ratio.

In post 503, Creature wrote:Specially in a game with a low number of players and even lower number of readable players and even lower number of interesting posts to comment on.

In post 504, Creature wrote:I feel like I need to act edgy to get something out of this.

In post 510, Creature wrote:

In post 505, the worst wrote:yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

In post 511, Creature wrote:I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

In post 515, Creature wrote:

In post 513, the worst wrote:

In post 511, Creature wrote:I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

If you feel like you're too heavily under pressure here step back. Neither me nor DrJ are getting anything from talking in circles with you. Go back and solve this sucker and give us something wild.

Nah, I want to see who will hop into this thread.

In post 514, Creature wrote:

In post 512, the worst wrote:

In post 510, Creature wrote:

In post 505, the worst wrote:yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

Why are these real time interactions so wolfy then?

because you're too impatient and want my reads immediatelly.

In post 525, Creature wrote:

In post 519, the worst wrote:ok so you want real time interactions but won't use the real-time interactions to solve rather than spamming incorrect self-defence meta which has been countered ane you've ignored but also won't eject yourself from the conversation to take a back seat and some independent solving because you want real time interactions with.... someone else? who's on your mind?

Man, I realtime interact the way I want.

In post 534, Creature wrote:Oh, I'll miss my hyperposting times.

In post 535, Creature wrote:

In post 533, the worst wrote:Can you See the difference between that game and this game?

It's an old game, but whatever.

the majority of these are also NAI, one example being "sometimes i have good reason to lurk. i really dont see how you get a SR off that

the rest is fluffing which i'm happy enough to call NAI but i think in reality is probably faintly scum scented given his overall iso

want me to compare the above to the game you linked? i'm actually in absolute awe you're not even pretending to see the differences

sorry the bold is hard to read, but i didnt want to use colors incase i got in trouble o.0

In post 728, the worst wrote:Hm I disliked the start but have liked more lately. Funny.

mostly tone/incentive

like i felt early game he felt natural and consistent to himself, but later game started to feel a bit more ehhh

im not doing any more big posts due to MY GODDAMN TESTS THAT I STILL NEED TO STUDY FOR

(good news: one got moved back to thursday)
(bad news: i still have 3 in the next 2 days)

In post 727, the worst wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10547758

Comparing my iso stance to yours how do you feel? just curious, I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta so genuinely wanna engage w someone about this

I like your reaction post.

tbf i feel the same way

I've never played with creature here, and only shortly on MU(which annoys me, so i don't remember much) so im not too sure about the "Creature" meta, thus i went more on tone and how i felt about their posts as a whole than their meta

i can be wrong, definitely, having replaced in and all that yada yada, but my read is town

i just relaized all these people talking about creature's activity

he's literally slightly over 1/5 of the entire game thread

this is what i feel needs to happen for heaven phase

Heaven 1: send the towniest person we can spare(basically mislynch bait)
Hell 1: hopefully scum, but if town its ok
Heaven 2: this is when it gets interesting with this amount of players, ESPECIALLY if we put town into both heaven and hell phase 1.
IF we send another mislynch bait we can spare to heaven, then thats 3 townies down and puts us into judgement day, with the experienced players left and only the inexperienced ones to solve in judgement day, where the thread is closed.
IF we send a super towny experienced player(im not naming any names but Irrelephant for example) they will do better in judgement day, but we will have a mislynch bait player in the thread maybe? but hopefully we feel good enough with it how it is.

IF we lynch town to hell Phase 1, i suggest putting experienced player to heavem
IF we lynch scum to hell Phase 1, i suggest putting towny/spareable player to heaven and continuing from there.

sorry if any of these offend you, im just using the words for lack of better

he is active lurking but yeah not aggressively inactive

thanks for being the reality check i've been yearning for, i indeed am no longer confident in my ability to read creature. uuRRGGHHH

i feel like within the context of knowing his meta he's transparently playing as scum!creature but like. i'm not 100% sure that's scum indicative anymore.

exhausting.


pedit: eragon please claim your full role and alignment right now thanks

In post 735, the worst wrote:he is active lurking but yeah not aggressively inactive

thanks for being the reality check i've been yearning for, i indeed am no longer confident in my ability to read creature. uuRRGGHHH

i feel like within the context of knowing his meta he's transparently playing as scum!creature but like. i'm not 100% sure that's scum indicative anymore.

exhausting.


pedit: eragon please claim your full role and alignment right now thanks

A quick note about WW theory and how I will play this game. Note that the arguments and facts presented here are indisputable, and that I will not engage in arguments about them, because those arguments are you wasting everyone else's time about meta that is well and comprehensively established. Go make reads so we can read you.

I've reflected on my role and realized that there is a GTO play for me in this game, and therefore I am compelled to pursue it. I am going to brute force my clearness immediately upon the opening of the thread.

I am hard-claiming, and I will never be rescinding. I am the cop. When it becomes prudent I will provide my check.

Benefits:

1. I will survive tonight: I do not believe the wolves are able to kill me tonight, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would ever do this as the cop. I believe that this decision reduces the importance of the cop cover to be provided by all of you to the point of it being negligible. The wolves have already been outplayed, as it were.

2. I'm lock clear: All of you already know I'm lock clear, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would do this as a wolf. You know this for at least two reasons. First, this is the easiest, lowest-stress, lowest-demand game to wolf in that I've ever played in (except for turbos). I have no need to complicate my life, as a wolf, by open-claiming on thread open, when all Ihave to do is provide like a C-level wolf game to probably win. This is the rare instance where you literally know that I have a billion other options as a wolf, AND that I would pursue probably ALL of them before pursuing this. Second, I engage in FPS exceedingly rarely, which necessarily means that I *know* that this will look WEIRD and SHOCKING to you. There is no merit to a wolf play that instantly generates WEIRD and SHOCKED responses that I would be obligated to finesse and manage for the remainder of the game. As a villager, which I am, the burden is totally on you to not $#@! up and lynch me. Makes my life super awesome.

3. There are only 11 players you need to try to read, rather than 12: I have already provided a "free" check of me in a game with a mere 13 players. Our win equity is dramatically improved by my being entirely off the table for the entire game.

Conclusion:

The burden of sound reasoning is now entirely upon you. I am the cop, and thus a villager, and thus lock clear. The game is immediately simpler than it would otherwise have been, because of my decision. Now, let us enjoy that benefit and win the game.

Also, to preempt a lengthy and pointless discussion.

It is NOT dumb to ponder this post and convince yourself of its wisdom. That is your obligation as a villager, and I encourage you to think it over for as long as it takes to quell your (initially valid but ultimately unnecessary) concerns.

It IS dumb to, AFTER doing that pondering, conclude that I'm "neutral" or "wolfy." That is legitimately stupid, and I won't entertain it. ONE of the reasons it is a stupid conclusion is that the upside of this play as a wolf is absolutely DWARFED by the upside of this play as a villager. There is no equivalency between the EV gain for wolf-me in this position and villager-me in this position. They're universes apart. That means I wouldn't DO the poorer option of the two (by extension, wolf-me also wouldn't BELIEVE that I could convince the entire game of the truth of these assertions for the entire game, which as an end-game wolf I would have to believe if this strategem were to be worth pursuing). A SECOND reason that conclusion is stupid is that the EV bonus of doing this as a wolf is COMPLETELY DWARFED by me baseline wolf EV anyway. Anything that complicates my wolfing life is RIDICULOUSLY stupid for me to do, given that my wolfing life is ALREADY one of the smoothest, highest expectation wolfing lives in WW history anyway. A THIRD reason that conclusion is stupid is that you would probably have to worry about being EXPLOITED by this gambit in order to get there. However, I have NEVER engaged in this, or any similar, gambit in my entire career, meaning that if there IS exploitation to be had with this play, it is in FUTURE GAMES, not this game. For these reasons, pressuring me is extremely wolfy and should not be engaged in by any villager, ever, in this game. There will be no less productive pursuit than that in this game.

Sucks for the wolves when meta is wielded this brutally, but my allegiance is plain and my strategy perfect. Get #rekt.

#rekt son

jfc that's acutally a great copypasta, that game was fun to read
i'm not sure whether to laugh or cry so i'm doing all 3

In post 739, the worst wrote:jfc that's acutally a great copypasta, that game was fun to read
i'm not sure whether to laugh or cry so i'm doing all 3

btw you like my sig

It's definitely a succinct introduction to your playstyle. I like it.

summarise your reads for me? I'm intrigued

Goddamnit my internet just went down.

Uhhhh


Well...

Eragon-meme is love, Meme is life

Creature- town

TW- skim town, needs deeper look

Dr.J- skim scum lean, needs deeper look

Keyser- haven’t seen nothing yet(no read)
Irrel(ain’t seen nothig but that sheeped read yet) no read

Lefty- no read

Lab rat- no read

Volxen- laugh read from creature’s posts about farting. No read

I’m also liking the RTI with you :3

(Real time interaction)

I don’t have many reads, but TBF how can you expect t when I replaced in bottom of last page and about 2 hours ago, when the majority of that time was spent reading creaure’s ISO and making memes and interacting with you and doing homework

I like hanging out with you too!
Okay get back to me when you're in sync with the balance of the slots. I don't have a strong grip if your stance yet. I think low key I need someone who's experienced creature to tell me if I'm being dumb or not.

In post 746, the worst wrote:I like hanging out with you too!
Okay get back to me when you're in sync with the balance of the slots. I don't have a strong grip if your stance yet. I think low key I need someone who's experienced creature to tell me if I'm being dumb or not.

I actually meant that as a read-thing.

Like “like” as in towny.

Although I like it too :3

I’m not sure when I’ll have time really confirmed, cuz I’m in a 50p mash on MU from 5:00AM to 5:00PM and I will probably study for tests on the bus for the next 2 days, so ???
I’ll get back to you, hopefully i’ll Find a window of time tommorow to do good things, if not definitely the next day

sub outta the mash we're more fun


Jk. have a blast, do what you can on this side.

Mashes suck