Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[Ydrasse]

gth it’s just guiltylion after everything

[Datisi]

i'm gonna be heading to sleep now

tomorrow i have another semi-busy day but i'll be here in the morning (unless i have insomnia again and sleep in until noon) and in the evening if i am needed

gth it's just ydrasse ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[GuiltyLion]

me being scum would have required like a Don Corleone absolute work of art performance to somehow endgame after all this time

again, I always always always tell Smart to bus me if I'm scum with him, there's no universe where I'm like "hey why don't you just... not vote my wagon this entire day phase and play really tentatively about it, then I'll bus you (by way of making up stuff about Galron) and endgame it myself"

if Taly left yesterday instead of Alyssa how do I endgame against Alyssa/RH9 when I spent the past 8p and 6p phases arguing that I had them as T/T

[GuiltyLion]

like, this is just not the progression I go to if I'm scum trying to endgame against RH9/Alyssa and I need to convince one of the two to leave eachother

I'm not planting any seeds of doubt about their alignment, I'm pulling out things I think are town indicative, there's zero evidence here of any intent to win a 4p against them

I think if I had to pick a T-T pair to endgame, it'd be Alyssa/RH9

I'm not especially pleased about that choice but RH9 has suddenly felt very town to me in how he's played the past few pages, like there's just little agenda to it and thinking that my 1705 read like a rehearsed post doesn't feel like a thought he would fake as scum

one other random thought I had before I go to bed

unless Alyssa is like the try hardiest mafia player to ever grace this site, 6705 effectively confirms that Alyssa/RH9 is never scum-scum. so that also eases some paranoia I've had at points this game around scum!Alyssa protecting buddy scum!RH9, because that's just not a realistic scenario by any stretch now.

tbh I'm actually not 100% certain that the scumteam isn't Ydrasse/RH9

that's more a read of "if the scumteam is Ydrasse/RH9, nobody deserves a win, especially town"

Some of us were pushing RH9 predance...

But ftr I think he's town now. The summary of your PT actually helped a lot for me

Leaves the pool with

RH9/Galron

as gents and

Mala/Angie/GuiltyLion

as ladies.

This is becoming scary because out of the three in your pool, I only TR GL. The others are null.
Actually, I'll just propose to the three that I'm fine with now before it it too late and I'm stuck with Mala and angielily.

I'm pretty sure that the setup didn't say that I can only propose to one person.

PROPOSE:GL

PROPOSE:Alyssa

PROPOSE:S_S

I'm panicking. This is the end of the world.

S_S what do you think about RH9's proposal

I was literally thinking about it as you posted this.

My instinct is to call it town because RH9 seems like the type to plan out exactly who he wants to pair with as scum and I wouldn't expect him to leave it this much out of his hands.

And, though weirdly phrased, I think the emotion is more likely genuine because I do get that feeling of "oh shit, all the good ones are gone" whereas scum would be like "welp just gotta find anybody who's willing".

I doubt catboi ever proposes to me so between RH9 and Galron I think I lean RH9. I remember thinking Galron's carefree manner was mildly +town but it seems like that's mostly dropped off.

SS r u going for a townread to pair with or what is ur idea of good pairing

I was thinking of it, yeah... there really isn't anyone that I care to bomb. I think it's entirely possible that I can turn the suspicion on my slot around, and being with someone I townread would be really good in that case.

Maybe it's better to put RH9 with Alyssa though? How are people reading Alyssa?

hmmm hmmm hmmmmmmm

I feel this is significant but my first impression doesn't point me to a definite answer

if scum!RH9, this is scum!Smart trying to smoothly avoid being forced into a S/S pair. definitely seems possible

if town!RH9, does Smart want to set up scum!Alyssa with RH9? Why would he do that when RH9 feels like he could be limbait at any moment and Alyssa would be best bet for endgame in a {marci, Andante, Smart, Alyssa} team?

I guess scum could be in {Ydra/Datisi} and this is Smart trying to set up a pair where town!Alyssa doesn't endgame

but I do think this is ++town for Alyssa, again

oh this is gonna take me a while probably

why do you think RH9 is never scum again

I still have half a mind that Alyssa/RH9 could be the best pair

Marcistar - Not_Mafia [9] -

Save The Dragons

, Alyssa the Lamb, Datisi,

GuiltyLion

, Ydrasse,

Taly

,

Not_Mafia

,

Firebringer

,

Marcistar

do we think this was all town until the self-hammer, Y/N

my instinct says no

you can take the green color off me if y'all want it just makes the point stronger

I can't remember the last time I saw 8 town votes onto scum in the first wagon in a Large

yeah but if we can conclude at least RH9 is definitively town that helps a lot

rereading the first 20 pages so far also makes me feel good about Alyssa town, I remembered the whole RH9 seems okay comment and it makes sense with her whole philosophy around pairing with a nullread and never endgaming

ironically, if we can just all agree RH9 is town, that's the pair I want to endgame

alright well I got through 65 pages of read and like I said earlier, it's just reinforced Datisi + Alyssa townreads for me

I don't TR any of RH9's early game but I think his play lategame hasn't been agenda-driven at all and I think he's town by virtue of being

off

the marci wagon

will play more tomorrow but I'd support a Ydra Yeet so far

[Taly]

I'm getting angry thinking about this game. I don't fucking see the scumcase on Ydrasse. Someone is going to have to detail what is scum indicative about it and shove it in my face.

[GuiltyLion]

to be frank I don't think there's like a rock solid scum case on Ydrasse, it's just that the towncase on everyone else was much stronger FMPOV

again though, I'd challenge you, point to a

single

post that Ydrasse made that she can't or won't make as scum.

Look at her interactions with scum, especially in the entire predance/first dance phase. Her conversation with marci feels stiff and forced. She and Andante don't talk to each other at all.

and here in the waning hours of the game, all she's done is stalled for time and thrown a bunch of AtE at us every time we talk about flipping her. Her mindset is not a solvey one, it's a survival one. She can say she didn't tryhard as scum all she wants, that's not a town case and never will be

[Taly]

All this "AtE" I don't think comes from scum her.

She's resigning herself to my decision in our PT and she's only giving information to me at the moment and this doesn't survive if its scum so why is it being done?

[GuiltyLion]

and again, to me the biggest question which cleared Datisi the most (although I think Datisi's interactions with flipped scum look really not-aligned)

If Smart was scum with our pair, what the fuck was the scum plan at 8p??

Datisi/I have been a functionally dead pair walking for like 3-4 straight lims. I don't even honestly know how we made it this far, I wasn't trying to. If Smart was scum with either of us the path to winning would be, bus us, look nice and good and unaligned, have taly leave because Ydrasse can't endgame because didn't die, and then convince Alyssa to leave.

Instead, Smart didn't seem invested in pushing us at all. Didn't case us. Didn't ask people to vote us. Let our wagon languish for days on end. Why? What does he gain leaving his partner out to dry like that? Does he really think he can drag us across the finish line with him when Taly, Alyssa, his partner Galron are all voting us? What was his plan there?

Smart isn't a bad scum player, and if he's scum with me or Datisi he chose the poorest possible way to play the 8p. Didn't get any towncred by bussing us, instead letting himself (the deeper wolf) get limmed instead, like how is that reasonable play from his slot?

[Datisi]

"this doesn't survive if it's scum" you say as you try to get her to endgame

[GuiltyLion]

All this "AtE" I don't think comes from scum her.

She's resigning herself to my decision in our PT and she's only giving information to me at the moment and this doesn't survive if its scum so why is it being done?

Why not? Ydrasse is a champ at AtE like she is a serious pro at getting people to feel bad for her when she's suspected and getting people to do what she wants

her whole wincon at this point is to make you doubt long enough to stall the game out to a win, and AtEing you in a private thread is way easier path to that then solving the game between Datisi/me in the main thread

[Datisi]

i've seen ydra ate as scum. it was frankly the only part of her scumgame where i thought she sounded tonally pure. i don't see what she's incapable of ate-wise here?

and yes i am not asleep

[Taly]

Dude I don't think Dat is the scum on your pair.

And I don't consider SS to be a bus happy player so it doesn't seem out there to consider he wanted a 4p win. I'd have gone for that.

[Taly]

i've seen ydra ate as scum. it was frankly the only part of her scumgame where i thought she sounded tonally pure. i don't see what she's incapable of ate-wise here?

and yes i am not asleep

Link?

[GuiltyLion]

And I don't consider SS to be a bus happy player so it doesn't seem out there to consider he wanted a 4p win. I'd have gone for that.

What is your opinion on S_S likelihood to bus based on?

And would it change your mind at all if I show you how I am like, the bus champion? Scum win games when they convince everyone they aren't paired together. It's like the key piece of information you need to hide from town

[Datisi]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12553397

her buddy got ran up at deadline, claimed 1-shot vig, we started turning towards her, she threw an absolute fit over it

i was scumreading her for the whole day and it made me seriously reconsider

[Datisi]

taly, what makes you think ydra is town other than ate

if she's in the pt ateing right now instead of actually casing either of us that should be a huge red flag

[GuiltyLion]

like, THIS is the kind of post I like to make about my buddies. goats and I were fighting pretty much all game and we won the game off of it because people just locktowned me after the slot flipped red.

If I was scum with Smart I'd be raging at him in the scumchat for how bad he'd look if we got limmed without him with him hemming and hawing and just ~not doing anything~ all the way

[Datisi]

Dude I don't think Dat is the scum on your pair.

And I don't consider SS to be a bus happy player so it doesn't seem out there to consider he wanted a 4p win. I'd have gone for that.

considering a 4p win makes sense if your partner is someone somewhat townread like ydrasse, or someone that at least has some cover from the ic

gl and i have literally been the next in the firing line for like 4 lims now, who would be trying to drag us into 4p

[Taly]

It's just that both of you have had such similar takes all game and

Titus

was the only person to really lean into this idea on how to approach your pair and she was NKed.

I really don't know how you both authentically believe you're massively pocketing each other and then consider scum at elo.

It doesn't read like a T/T dynamic.

And I don't consider SS to be a bus happy player so it doesn't seem out there to consider he wanted a 4p win. I'd have gone for that.

What is your opinion on S_S likelihood to bus based on?

And would it change your mind at all if I show you how I am like, the bus champion? Scum win games when they convince everyone they aren't paired together. It's like the key piece of information you need to hide from town

Ok, so how about you tell my how you aren't distancing from your scumpartner SS this game?

[GuiltyLion]

also if we were going for a 4p win I would have been pushing for Ydra or Alyssa/RH9 pair to get out

I genuinely didn't think it'd be good for the game if anyone else was misyeeted at 8p and I literally did not vote until it was clear we weren't going to be the lim anymore

[GuiltyLion]

It's just that both of you have had such similar takes all game and Titus was the only person to really lean into this idea on how to approach your pair and she was NKed.

Titus was obvtown and again, scum!Ydra literally will not kill herself

you cannot use this NK to townread Ydra it is one of the biggest pieces of evidence against her

[Taly]

I really don't know how you both authentically believe you're massively pocketing each other and then NOT consider scum at elo.

[Datisi]

I really don't know how you both authentically believe you're massively pocketing each other and then consider scum at elo.

what? i don't believe gl is pocketing me, what does this even mean?

[Taly]

It's just that both of you have had such similar takes all game and Titus was the only person to really lean into this idea on how to approach your pair and she was NKed.

Titus was obvtown and again, scum!Ydra literally will not kill herself

you cannot use this NK to townread Ydra it is one of the biggest pieces of evidence against her

It's not to townclear Ydra. It's why I'm not townclearing you.

[Datisi]

we have "similar" takes because we talk in the pt a lot and because we're generally similar players. looking over some of our t/t games would confirm that.

taly, if i need to get up three hours earlier tomorrow so that i have time to paraphrase 16 pages of our pt, i will do it if it's needed