Mafiascum.net

i'll give you a hint for why he's not playing the game but don't read it until after the game because it'll spoil you

i'll give you a hint for why he's not playing the game but don't read it until after the game because it'll spoil you

not being clear here is super demoralizing for me, i dunno. i played yesterday the way I did so that clearing me would be everyone's best shot at winning 3 way.
i'm a lot more reliable at finding scum than i am at proving that i myself am not scum.

are either of you going to talk to me at all TD or should I just ignore this game for a while

idk, i'm bitter.

hi 0verkill

ok i guess i'm talking into the void

You should go through Creature's ISO and look through his 0verkill mentions and vice versa. It's enlightening.
There's virtually no back and forth discussion and they both at different times have different reads on each other that they never substantiate at all.

Let's talk about 0K's ISO!

Very early on he calls Chennis town citing a post that isn't actually towny at all; it's very easy for Chennis as either alignment to say "we should lynch scum even if scum is the 8-ball" and knowing that 0K is scum it's pretty obvious that he was just looking for a reason to townread his buddy.

Ankamius's supposed 'tunneling' of me is strange in the fact its 'Lynch the shitter' arguement when theres multiple other people with very little content.
+ the tunnel isnt putting any pressure on me and is just beginning to be repetitive which I probably should check other games for similar things

2 big things here.
1) He calls Ankamius scum basically for pushing on him, discredits the read, but never actually does the follow up he talks about.
2) the whole "yeah but there's multiple other people with little comment" is super scummy; if you've ever heard the phrase 'why me -> fry me' this is what it's referring to.

In post 914, 0verki11 wrote:And yes I still maintain my Ches read, as I liked the posts I mentioned earlier and none of their posts particular feel scummy to me currently.
I feel like the LAMIST posts are NAI for them.

he has given several townreads up to this point in the game. the only townread he cares to justify his position on is Chennis.
none of the townies (whom he knows are town) require substantiation as to his townreads, but the one scum in his townpool he feels the need to keep giving reasons for.
he knows that his correct townreads aren't gonna be looked into too much so he doesn't substantiate them but the one read that is gonna end up looking bad he keeps substantiating.

Best town: Me
Like probably town: Ches
Slight town: Okapoka,
Townish lean: RC, Nance, Clem
Null: Fusc, Titus
Like insanely little scumread: Ank, Chemist
Level 1 mafia crook: Tmck
Level 100 mafia goon: BEF
Level 10000 mafia boss: Mbaki
like those are all the people I can remember

1) Creature doesn't even make the list
2) Aside from that, one scum at the top of his townreads, one scum in null, no categories with multiple scum, and townreads on basically all the threatening townies.

Also: I'm not sure if you remember at this point in the game, but there was a lot of conjecture that BEF was the 8-ball and all 3 flipped scum were pushing that wagon.
BEF is second to the bottom of his readslist here; a completely safe to vote place if it's going through but will look slightly less bad than if it was his top scumread.

In post 1857, 0verki11 wrote:VOTE: BEF
ez

In post 1867, 0verki11 wrote:BEF is ideal here imo

In post 1880, 0verki11 wrote: BEF is The Ideal lynch

if you read Page 75, this is right after Nancy, Mbaki and I were starting the fuscosco wagon
all of a sudden he goes from Mbaki top scumread to hyper committing to the BEF wagon.
it's a transparent attempt to force the counterwagon to scum Fuscosco.

In post 1884, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 1878, NanceFloor wrote:

In post 1867, 0verki11 wrote:BEF is ideal here imo

If Chenn flips red, lynch this next.

cool

Hey, remember this?

In post 1905, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 1896, Fuscosco wrote:ith it thats cool

youre not really selling bef you know.

You even put me at nullread.

Why dont you park your vote at chen?

Why do you care so much about me townreading you, thats not really a town mindset.
Also im pretty confident on my Chen read im probably not voting them

In post 1914, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 1908, Fuscosco wrote:

In post 1905, 0verki11 wrote:Why do you care so much about me townreading you

hunh?

Im saying you dont TR me, what makes you so sure that bef is where to go if im null to you?

because im alot more certain on any read I could make on them than I am on a read on you

So first off, the entire interaction with fuscosco is pretty transparently SvS.
0k has been calling Chenn town this entire game and Fusco randomly implies that 0k should votepark Chennis.
Second, think about the timing. All 3 non-Creature scum are currently voting BEF, yet they're taking potshots like this at each other.
Note that neither Fusco nor 0k was prompted to actually change their vote because of this interaction.
They're on the same wagon together and they know it looks bad so they make posts like this to distance each other.
Does this feel like at all a genuine interaction from either side?

In post 2018, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 2017, RadiantCowbells wrote:yes we do

what are your thoughts on fusco?

Null be if needed to make a wagon go through ill vote.

In post 2020, 0verki11 wrote:Ank would you lynch BEF?

Pays lip service to be willing to vote scum, then immediately turns around and tries to get townies to vote other townies.

Post #2290 (isolation #53) » April 29th, 2019, 12:06 am

Minor note that a full of 0verki11's posting was on day 1.
Usually town get energized and morale improves when you see scum flips, yet when the game went into town's favor he went from posting at a reasonable rate to basically not at all.

In post 2324, 0verki11 wrote:like not using coalition now is probably not the right play here

I'm using this as a representation of the entire hard coalition push, but
this is 1) pretty IIoA and 2) the phrasing is just scummy. ymmv on that, maybe I see it that way because I know he's scum, but.

RadiantCowbells 0verki11

What makes more sense: that I as scum pair myself with someone who was universally scumread in a lobby where several people like Mbaki and Ankamius and Titus see my as a threat to town win condition and see bringing me down with 0verki11 as a feature rather than a bug, or that scum pairs themselves with a strong townie?

Also, and I had entirely forgotten this until this reread, but I tried to get town to lynch me and 0verkill on day 2, because I thought that he was scum.



Which is a pretty autolose strategy if I was scum. And scum would have taken the opportunity to mislynch me here if I wasn't paired with 0verki11.

In post 3260, 0verki11 wrote:VOTE: Creature/Chemist
Probably best choice.

In post 3279, 0verki11 wrote:???
ok then I guess my vote is negative utlity.
I can kind of buy youre earlier scumread on me but now its just grasping at straws.
If you think im stalling a wagon on a scum member then cool lets vote the scum member.

I also tried to push Chennis/Titus during that day, so on D2 of the 4 pairings I even hinted towards being willing to scumread, 2 of them contained scum.
And yes, the one that I missed was the one that had traction (Creature). But if you look at my reads from around that time every single scumread I was wrong on was on that wagon.

When the Creature/Chemist wagon seemed like it was going to happen no matter what, he jumps on.
He doesn't actually make any effort whatsoever to push the wagon, and just lurks until the wagon doesn't end up going through.

In post 4599, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 4398, Creature wrote:I would rather this:

VOTE: chenn, Over, Titus, TD

ok so no, we are aiming for 3 scum, im town and im pretty sure Titus and Chenn are as well.
So youve probably got 1 scum there sucks to be you

awkward discussion from one scum to another scum about a third scum.
seriously, do you buy this as something that ever comes from town here?

In post 4602, 0verki11 wrote:ok why are we townreading Chemist again because I dont see it.

I've already brought this up before, but I'm going to bring it up again because it's pertinent
When we got into a position where it was inevitably going to be Sky/RC/NF/Chemist/Creature, both myself and 0verki11 were scumreading Chemist of the pair

the manner which we did so is drastically different though.

At does Overkill commit to any sort of read on Creature. He just calls Chemist potential scum and discredits townreads.
He's trying to get the Chemist wagon to go through without being able to be called out on his Creature townread.

I, on the other hand, 180ed my read and decided that maybe Creature is town. I started pushing Creature as town publicly even. I fought his being in the veto.

ok so Chen is town but Clem isnt, im still pretty sure on that
I was really only reading TD as town of the dance as I thought it was too obvious for scum to actually do it, but i was probably trhinking to much into it, and I didnt like TDs posts when I looked at their iso, and VCA doesnt do much good for them either.

More calling Chen town btw.
Note that his read on Chennisden is literally all over the fucking place; hard townread on d1, hard scumread on d2 when he got wagoned, back to hard townread now.

There's also basically no explanation of why the reads transition, they just kinda happen.

In post 4640, 0verki11 wrote:Chemist/TD/Clem
ez just chain lynch them once you kill me, infact put them in the veto with me k thx

Overkill tries to create a veto containing 3 town and him
almost certainly intending to kill TD/Clem and then mislynch Chemist after since that's what he's been setting up to do

In post 6176, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 6151, BNL wrote:

The coalition of 0verki11, chennisden, MariaR, Moongrass, Succinct, Time Devil and Titus...

has

FAILED!!!

omg Im genuinely surprised that this failed
Content coming after I sleep.

lol. not much to really say about veto besides that all the vetoes he pushed contained 3 town and him.
also it's really cheap towncred to try to push yourself in a veto.

then we get to the really pivotal lynch in the game where it was if we had lynched correctly:

In post 5985, 0verki11 wrote:

In post 5948, Moongrass wrote:I've never trusted my scumreads on you however you're so much better than this.

lol yea youre practically outed scum at this point

0verki11 is pushing Moongrass and treating him as outed scum, fanning the flames of NF having them as their ideal lynch. But then we all change to TD. What happens?

In post 6617, 0verki11 wrote:VOTE: lynch
Yeah TD ur dying today

Immediately changes his scumread to the consensus scumread of that point in the game.
What was I doing at this point in the game?



Then:

In post 7109, 0verki11 wrote:VOTE: MariaR
Sorry about inactivity typically when ive gone to post the thread has been locked rip

Apologizes for being inactive, citing the thread always being locked, by immediately hammering town.
Noting that adjacent to this:

In post 6896, MariaR wrote:eh as long as we lynch in td/chen for the lynch part I can care less. I can't read Taly much besides 2 games 1 of each her being town/scum but if nance floor was hard tring it sure
VOTE: Titus

In post 7077, MariaR wrote:VOTE: Venge
I'm fine voting TD or Chen they're both scum
or we can vote me.
Regardless should be fine

In post 7099, MariaR wrote:

In post 7078, RadiantCowbells wrote:if you're town you can't hold this game against me as a misread.

regardless of your alignment i wish you played this game more.

No I am 100% holding this against you because you're awful at reading me and you know this. If you wanna plug your ears and go 'lalalala' w/e. I can care less

In post 7100, MariaR wrote:Let's hurry up and do this.

MariaR clearly had me as locktown. MariaR also clearly expressed that she was certain that TD/Chennis was the scumteam.
Maria had also expressed thinking TD was scum far more often close to the vengekill.

In post 7054, RadiantCowbells wrote:I want to lynch Maria and if she's town have her target Chennis.
If I'm scum I can't be scum with both 0verkill and Maria.
Feel free to set a venge pairing that doesn't target both players.

In post 7063, RadiantCowbells wrote:If Maria's not scum, then she is optimal to kill because the scum are very obvious from her perspective, she's agreed that Chennis at least is scum, and that means scum don't get to vengekill you and remove a clear. If Maria's scum, she's optimal to kill because she's Maria and hasn't played enough to be readable.

In post 7065, RadiantCowbells wrote:I think chennis is scum basically 100% of the time regardless of anything else, and is therefore the safe venge.

I previously said that I would have pushed MariaR to venge Chennis as scum, and that's still correct.
But I think it's even a step further than that, if I wasn't explicitly pushing MariaR to venge Chennis and if she didn't trust the fuck out of my reads she'd have shot you.
And there's no reason for me to want to be in a 50/50 situation as scum in a game that could have been over several day phases before.

Then we have yesterday's play.

1) 0verki11 made no effort to try to sort anyone yesterday. The pairing that he originally pushed would have made the exact current lylo setup available, but he was willing to take this one as a backup. I have no idea why he wanted this lylo setup, but I suspect that he has something spicy to come or a lot of paranoia to inflame.

In post 7315, 0verki11 wrote:yea im probably voting for TD/RC and ill share reads after that.
You guys fine with day ending early.

In post 7357, 0verki11 wrote:sorry I got sidetracked
VOTE: RC/TD
glgl

Never gave any sort of reads yesterday, either. Which makes a lot of sense for someone who knows that they're gonna be in a 1v1 the next day?


2) I believe that you can correctly deduce that, regardless of my alignment, my feelings towards Titus were sincere.
I wouldn't have gone through that song and dance as a scum manipulative tactic. I already know how to push Titus's buttons as scum.
Like I said, I've won 16 games versus her as scum and almost all of them I made her place the losing vote in LyLo.

If I was scum, either I would have gone through the correct strategy of buttering her up until she voted who I wanted her to in LyLo
or I would have just avoided the unpleasantness of trying to interact with her yesterday, nightkilled her, and nothing would have mattered at all.

I certainly don't subject myself to the pain of trying to explain Titus's faults to her if I have the planned option of just killing her and not dealing with her.


Also, 3 final notes.

1) I replaced out of both of my most recently finished scumgames, both in the open queue. I don't know why but I'm just not really dealing well with rolling scum right now. I'm trying to give some sort of effort in them but it's a struggle. By my standards several years ago, this is probably within my scum range (even if 0verkill is objectively scum because of his own play.) But if you compare this to my more recent scum games like this one, it should be reasonably obvious that I'm town. I'm not saying that I would have replaced out necessarily but I feel like on some level you should know that I'm town here, and if you're resisting it because you know that I have a reputation for scum play, you shouldn't.

2) MariaR who I led the venge on townread me. Skygazer who got nightkilled townread me. Nancefloor who got nightkilled townread me. All of the unforced kills by scum have been on people who townread me. I wouldn't kill the people townreading me as scum.

3) I'm town.

gg ez

Did I mention that if I was scum, and a very early vote on the Fusco wagon, my scumbuddies would have voted Fusco with me instead of sitting on a counterwagon that made them all look bad?

I tried to focus on reasons that 0verki11 was scum as opposed to reasons that I am town because I expect you to be worried about your reasons for townreading me being manipulated. I can't make 0verki11 have awful associatives with all the flipped scum, or do any of the other objectively scummy shit that he did. You can and should read his iso yourself so that you know I'm not taking things out of context, he's just that obviously scum. I was like 85%+ sure that he was scum yesterday. Let me know if there's anything else that I can do to make this easier.

I'm pretty sure that he took you to endgame to mislynch me because in any other situation this endgame would come down to the actual contents of the game and he'd lose, but you've expressed paranoia of me several times and if he can appeal to your paranoia to do something stupid, he wins. Pls don't mislynch me here.

Also, Creature townread me the entire game then when it was leading up to a point where Chemist might go down and he'd need to mislynch someone else in the pool he 180ed his read and started calling me scum.

What’s bugging me tbh is why you didn’t let Titus finish her reads

Are you willing to do some reading here?
I really don't care what reads Titus gives. If I were cleared here I would not make my decision at all based off of the reads that Titus gave.
If you go through our past games I can show you that it's pretty much SOP for me to do what I did.

Also, if I really needed to silence Titus I could have gotten Rank through before Titus even started giving reads.

Like I understand why you would find that traditionally scummy in terms of 'aaa he is trying to silence a townie', but Titus herself would call it NAI for me, at worst.

In post 7254, Titus wrote:I'll hammer rank Monday morning if I haven't done my VCA. That is worth waiting for if there's any chance Overkill could use it.

I know RC values my opinion less than dirt.

RC, I spent half the game fighting slots like you for respect. I play to learn. I doubt my win rate is as low as you say. It could be higher. It could be lower. I don't care. Each player deserves a modicum of respect, even if you trash my thoughts, regardless of your alignment.

in her own words. notably, her representation of me isn't accurate.
I think that her reads have some value. I think most people's reads have some value.
Does that mean we should be lynching solely off of them? no. Basically everyone in the game is better than her as town. She should be focusing on supporting the stronger townies.
As long as the dichotomy to her is "everyone gets on their knees and services my reads or they're scum in game or irl" I don't really care what she has to say.

You can not like it, but you shouldn't think it's a scumtell for me.

Like, there's two kinds of respect.

I respect Titus as a human being. But I don't respect Titus as a scumhunting goddess. And she seems to think that she is entitled to the latter, as opposed to the former, with no accomplishments to back it up. And I don't really want to sit here and trash Titus in a game that she's dead in because I know that for whatever reason, 0k thought she was more threatening in LyLo than you.

But the kind of respect that Titus wants isn't something that everyone gets, and it's not something she gives to anyone else.

afaik I still want to call NanceFloor, unless it's mission critical we get Titus's reads.

also I'm an IC, AMA.

-TL

there's no reason not to hammer.

TL, anything that you want to talk to me about?

In post 7395, RadiantCowbells wrote:TL, anything that you want to talk to me about?

I'd like to know your opinion of who to call to best win LyLo.

-TL

Nancefloor almost certainly kept up with the game. Scum nightkilled them without being forced to. Seems like a good call a friend.

Do you think that I'm scum?

In post 7397, RadiantCowbells wrote:Nancefloor almost certainly kept up with the game. Scum nightkilled them without being forced to. Seems like a good call a friend.

Do you think that I'm scum?

Alright.

VOTE: Call a Friend

I'm currently pegging you as town.

-TL

The other obvious choices to me are MariaR and Titus.