I mellowed out on thinking ceph was scum for his early wagon reaction. And they have been pursuing slots that I feel are scum (particularly math and Johnny) which is why I think his gladiate was dumb but he went on the whims of slots he trusted at the time so whatever. I don’t think he’s scum for it I just think it was a bad play with decent intentions.
Read all of that as Ceph is thinking about the game along similar lines that I am. With the exception of “Taly has to die or I have to die”
@ math
Also my argument for voting Taly is not that I think Taly is scummier. But no limming is dumb to me.
No liming is dumb to you.
This means pick between Ceph and Taly
You pick Taly because she’s scummier unless you are scum
Please try again
That is how a gladiate works yea.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:24 am
by MathBlade
In post 7374, T-Bone wrote:Why the fuck did that happen again??? Burn this website down I am literally using the quick reply box!
In post 7309, RCEnigma wrote:If you DO NOT think ceph is scum, vote Taly.
If you DO NOT think Taly is scum, vote Ceph.
What if you think neither scum? Yeah I would 100% vote Ceph > Taly but the more sensible option is to no lim.
I’ve already said I don’t think either are scum. You don’t want to vote Taly because you townread them and I’m on the other end. But I’m averse to a no elim just to save 1 person in my maybe town pool.
WHY are you averse to abstaining in order to save a maybe-town? Cephrir is a maybe-town for me but I'm still voting to abstain because I think either elimination is bad. Voting Taly is giving the bad players what they want, and voting Cephrir is just punishing him for being weak-willed.
~GE
Because you are valuing the life of potential town over information for the town. Taly flipping town says to me, DP pretty much conf-town. I can focus on the slots that tipped the scales between Taly being glaciated or Johnny being gladiated. And if some info came out about Johnny then it slims that pool down no? Plus whatever other info comes out from invests etc.
Then I can look at who was pushing Taly before all the gladiate stuff and why, etc etc.
But if we no lim I’m still no closer to knowing if Taly is town or not, I don’t know if the slots that pushed the gladiate target over are town or not because I don’t know if Taly is or not. And so on.
Does that make sense?
Not really.
This entire argument can be replaced with Ceph instead and pick a different lock town player
I mellowed out on thinking ceph was scum for his early wagon reaction. And they have been pursuing slots that I feel are scum (particularly math and Johnny) which is why I think his gladiate was dumb but he went on the whims of slots he trusted at the time so whatever. I don’t think he’s scum for it I just think it was a bad play with decent intentions.
Read all of that as Ceph is thinking about the game along similar lines that I am. With the exception of “Taly has to die or I have to die”
@ math
Also my argument for voting Taly is not that I think Taly is scummier. But no limming is dumb to me.
No liming is dumb to you.
This means pick between Ceph and Taly
You pick Taly because she’s scummier unless you are scum
Please try again
That is how a gladiate works yea.
Then again I ask you why Taly?
Your answer because Taly provides info is insufficient as Cephrir provides info as to whether he’s likely defending Frog or not vs elim Taly get a clue to DP’s alignment
In post 7309, RCEnigma wrote:If you DO NOT think ceph is scum, vote Taly.
If you DO NOT think Taly is scum, vote Ceph.
What if you think neither scum? Yeah I would 100% vote Ceph > Taly but the more sensible option is to no lim.
I’ve already said I don’t think either are scum. You don’t want to vote Taly because you townread them and I’m on the other end. But I’m averse to a no elim just to save 1 person in my maybe town pool.
WHY are you averse to abstaining in order to save a maybe-town? Cephrir is a maybe-town for me but I'm still voting to abstain because I think either elimination is bad. Voting Taly is giving the bad players what they want, and voting Cephrir is just punishing him for being weak-willed.
~GE
Because you are valuing the life of potential town over information for the town. Taly flipping town says to me, DP pretty much conf-town. I can focus on the slots that tipped the scales between Taly being glaciated or Johnny being gladiated. And if some info came out about Johnny then it slims that pool down no? Plus whatever other info comes out from invests etc.
Then I can look at who was pushing Taly before all the gladiate stuff and why, etc etc.
But if we no lim I’m still no closer to knowing if Taly is town or not, I don’t know if the slots that pushed the gladiate target over are town or not because I don’t know if Taly is or not. And so on.
Does that make sense?
Not really.
This entire argument can be replaced with Ceph instead and pick a different lock town player
Ok, then replace every Taly with Ceph.
This doesn’t make sense you wingnut.
~GE
It doesn’t but math is being purposefully pedantic and I’m not really in the mood to make it a whole thing if voting math isn’t even on the table today.
In post 7348, Dancing Puppets wrote:I’m liking Math’s posting, I think Pooky’s wrong. I don’t see why scum!Math would state the overwhelming obvious - that there’s a dogpile on Taly.
We need to meld. I
don't
like Math's posting and it's easy for scum to state the obvious to pocket town. Assuming Taly is town, then scum!Math has zero to lose drfending them. Either a) Math is successful and Taly is grateful (probably) or b) Math fails and is viewed as correct. That's assuming Taly is town.
Those rationales apply regardless of alignment. What really bothers me is Math saying the game is like RVS and not voting anyone. Doubly so because Math is a proponent of VCA to solve and going no lim is from his PoV picking for the game to languish with no hydra partnet that might benefit from no lim.
I find it odd we perpetually disagree on Math.
~Titus
Does it matter?
My hood partner said I have an open vig on me.
It’s more important town has the information then I die and C&G can give my last reads
What the hell? As in they are going to shoot you themselves?
In post 7309, RCEnigma wrote:If you DO NOT think ceph is scum, vote Taly.
If you DO NOT think Taly is scum, vote Ceph.
What if you think neither scum? Yeah I would 100% vote Ceph > Taly but the more sensible option is to no lim.
I’ve already said I don’t think either are scum. You don’t want to vote Taly because you townread them and I’m on the other end. But I’m averse to a no elim just to save 1 person in my maybe town pool.
WHY are you averse to abstaining in order to save a maybe-town? Cephrir is a maybe-town for me but I'm still voting to abstain because I think either elimination is bad. Voting Taly is giving the bad players what they want, and voting Cephrir is just punishing him for being weak-willed.
~GE
Because you are valuing the life of potential town over information for the town. Taly flipping town says to me, DP pretty much conf-town. I can focus on the slots that tipped the scales between Taly being glaciated or Johnny being gladiated. And if some info came out about Johnny then it slims that pool down no? Plus whatever other info comes out from invests etc.
Then I can look at who was pushing Taly before all the gladiate stuff and why, etc etc.
But if we no lim I’m still no closer to knowing if Taly is town or not, I don’t know if the slots that pushed the gladiate target over are town or not because I don’t know if Taly is or not. And so on.
Does that make sense?
Not really.
This entire argument can be replaced with Ceph instead and pick a different lock town player
Ok, then replace every Taly with Ceph.
This doesn’t make sense you wingnut.
~GE
It doesn’t but math is being purposefully pedantic and I’m not really in the mood to make it a whole thing if voting math isn’t even on the table today.
More dodging the question.
The more this question gets dodged the more I want no elim or Ceph.
In post 7348, Dancing Puppets wrote:I’m liking Math’s posting, I think Pooky’s wrong. I don’t see why scum!Math would state the overwhelming obvious - that there’s a dogpile on Taly.
We need to meld. I
don't
like Math's posting and it's easy for scum to state the obvious to pocket town. Assuming Taly is town, then scum!Math has zero to lose drfending them. Either a) Math is successful and Taly is grateful (probably) or b) Math fails and is viewed as correct. That's assuming Taly is town.
Those rationales apply regardless of alignment. What really bothers me is Math saying the game is like RVS and not voting anyone. Doubly so because Math is a proponent of VCA to solve and going no lim is from his PoV picking for the game to languish with no hydra partnet that might benefit from no lim.
I find it odd we perpetually disagree on Math.
~Titus
Does it matter?
My hood partner said I have an open vig on me.
It’s more important town has the information then I die and C&G can give my last reads
Wait, your hood partner is saying they'll shoot you? If you have an open vig, wouldn't you want a flip to make your reads as accurate as possible?
~Titus
No they said someone threatened to shoot me.
I want as much information from everyone having to actually defend their read.
Why is Taly town?
Because Nancy says so and tone. I don't give a rat's ass if that's weak.
Ceph is more town because post ABCD
Taly is scummy for post EFGH
Those are reasons unique to them
You’re arguing an information elim not that Taly is actually scummier than Ceph
In other words you didn’t answer the question asked
Math, you are jumping into a different conversation, and asking why it does not fit into the conversation you were having.
You are demanding that this post explains why Taly is better then Ceph, but RCE was trying to explain why No Elim was bad. Those are not the same conversation.
I mellowed out on thinking ceph was scum for his early wagon reaction. And they have been pursuing slots that I feel are scum (particularly math and Johnny) which is why I think his gladiate was dumb but he went on the whims of slots he trusted at the time so whatever. I don’t think he’s scum for it I just think it was a bad play with decent intentions.
Read all of that as Ceph is thinking about the game along similar lines that I am. With the exception of “Taly has to die or I have to die”
@ math
Also my argument for voting Taly is not that I think Taly is scummier. But no limming is dumb to me.
No liming is dumb to you.
This means pick between Ceph and Taly
You pick Taly because she’s scummier unless you are scum
Please try again
That is how a gladiate works yea.
Then again I ask you why Taly?
Your answer because Taly provides info is insufficient as Cephrir provides info as to whether he’s likely defending Frog or not vs elim Taly get a clue to DP’s alignment
So why Taly over Ceph?
I have greater than 1 reason to townread ceph and ≈ 1 reasons to townread Taly. For reasons stated and requoted that you are ignoring so that you can say I don’t have a point.
In post 7348, Dancing Puppets wrote:I’m liking Math’s posting, I think Pooky’s wrong. I don’t see why scum!Math would state the overwhelming obvious - that there’s a dogpile on Taly.
We need to meld. I
don't
like Math's posting and it's easy for scum to state the obvious to pocket town. Assuming Taly is town, then scum!Math has zero to lose drfending them. Either a) Math is successful and Taly is grateful (probably) or b) Math fails and is viewed as correct. That's assuming Taly is town.
Those rationales apply regardless of alignment. What really bothers me is Math saying the game is like RVS and not voting anyone. Doubly so because Math is a proponent of VCA to solve and going no lim is from his PoV picking for the game to languish with no hydra partnet that might benefit from no lim.
I find it odd we perpetually disagree on Math.
~Titus
Does it matter?
My hood partner said I have an open vig on me.
It’s more important town has the information then I die and C&G can give my last reads
What the hell? As in they are going to shoot you themselves?
~GE
They said someone said I am a preferred NK target which implies Vig (this someone is not DNA won’t say who in case scum are stupid)
If I am going to die it’s going to be with useful reads
Not because someone begged me because circular reasoning
In post 7309, RCEnigma wrote:If you DO NOT think ceph is scum, vote Taly.
If you DO NOT think Taly is scum, vote Ceph.
What if you think neither scum? Yeah I would 100% vote Ceph > Taly but the more sensible option is to no lim.
I’ve already said I don’t think either are scum. You don’t want to vote Taly because you townread them and I’m on the other end. But I’m averse to a no elim just to save 1 person in my maybe town pool.
WHY are you averse to abstaining in order to save a maybe-town? Cephrir is a maybe-town for me but I'm still voting to abstain because I think either elimination is bad. Voting Taly is giving the bad players what they want, and voting Cephrir is just punishing him for being weak-willed.
~GE
Because you are valuing the life of potential town over information for the town. Taly flipping town says to me, DP pretty much conf-town. I can focus on the slots that tipped the scales between Taly being glaciated or Johnny being gladiated. And if some info came out about Johnny then it slims that pool down no? Plus whatever other info comes out from invests etc.
Then I can look at who was pushing Taly before all the gladiate stuff and why, etc etc.
But if we no lim I’m still no closer to knowing if Taly is town or not, I don’t know if the slots that pushed the gladiate target over are town or not because I don’t know if Taly is or not. And so on.
Does that make sense?
Not really.
This entire argument can be replaced with Ceph instead and pick a different lock town player
Ok, then replace every Taly with Ceph.
I did as I read? It makes your paragraph meaningless
There’s nothing here.
Ceph is more town because post ABCD
Taly is scummy for post EFGH
Those are reasons unique to them
You’re arguing an information elim not that Taly is actually scummier than Ceph
In other words you didn’t answer the question asked
This is correct, and I fail to see how it’s being pedantic.
In post 7137, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Perhaps I am being too demanding when I ask for a full scum case on Taly from whoever is advocating for Taly to get killed here.
I will lower the bar for those who want to kill Taly.
Give me your single most compelling reason to believe Taly is mafia here.
- I received a neighbor PM, and I find it odd for Toog to come to the conclusion that he should be treating bell like town off the bat. My expectation for town receiving that role pm to be healthy distrust of their hoodmate. Makes me question if he was actually interested in sorting Bell, or if he was mainly hoping for mutual town reads.
- I feel like Taly has a poor signal to noise ratio. She has been one of the slots this game that I have found it hard to remember a single post she has made. (in my experience, there tends to exist at least some scum in this list)
- To copy and paste something that I incorrectly said about math, but does apply to Taly: She prioritized checking her own iso for claims early on during her rep in.
Taly claims her hood with Bell in her very first post of 1041. Then clarifies that she thought it was good to do so because she did an iso skim of Toog before she made her first post.
- I will ducktail this into saying that that makes me scratch my head at this post 11 posts later .
In post 1580, Taly wrote:I just realized Toog has only posted twice and now I'm tilting my head at the suspicion there.
pedit: pooky already voted, so this was a waste of my time smh.
In post 7214, Lukewarm wrote:I am not going to pretend that I am convinced she is scum.
But, I also don't think that she is a lock town.
And I think killing a null-ish slot is better then killing no one.
Ceph is more town because post ABCD
Taly is scummy for post EFGH
Those are reasons unique to them
You’re arguing an information elim not that Taly is actually scummier than Ceph
In other words you didn’t answer the question asked
Math, you are jumping into a different conversation, and asking why it does not fit into the conversation you were having.
You are demanding that this post explains why Taly is better then Ceph, but RCE was trying to explain why No Elim was bad. Those are not the same conversation.
I asked the latter question consistently, I am assuming RCE’s premise is true then why Taly
I am not saying I won’t vote permanently but we should at least have more reasons than “oops someone has to die”
Then if Taly flips town scum aren’t accountable
And if Taly flips town no one gets town cred except maybe one player
In post 7043, Taly wrote:Ceph I'm trying to see what about my opening posts were needless. I replaced in with 1000 posts already made. Would a post-by-post catchup had been more feasible than real time discussion?
And what did you think about the discussion on Frogs slot during your gladiate decision?
1580 was a post i did not like that started me down a path of suspecting you. i felt like the idea was to show up and address your friends to start the process of getting them on your side
i thought it was toxic and noisy and going to go just as nowhere as the last umpteen discussions, and i kinda buy that he really thought his claim was powertown, and i thought it should stop happening
In post 7137, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:Perhaps I am being too demanding when I ask for a full scum case on Taly from whoever is advocating for Taly to get killed here.
I will lower the bar for those who want to kill Taly.
Give me your single most compelling reason to believe Taly is mafia here.
- I received a neighbor PM, and I find it odd for Toog to come to the conclusion that he should be treating bell like town off the bat. My expectation for town receiving that role pm to be healthy distrust of their hoodmate. Makes me question if he was actually interested in sorting Bell, or if he was mainly hoping for mutual town reads.
- I feel like Taly has a poor signal to noise ratio. She has been one of the slots this game that I have found it hard to remember a single post she has made. (in my experience, there tends to exist at least some scum in this list)
- To copy and paste something that I incorrectly said about math, but does apply to Taly: She prioritized checking her own iso for claims early on during her rep in.
Taly claims her hood with Bell in her very first post of 1041. Then clarifies that she thought it was good to do so because she did an iso skim of Toog before she made her first post.
- I will ducktail this into saying that that makes me scratch my head at this post 11 posts later .
In post 1580, Taly wrote:I just realized Toog has only posted twice and now I'm tilting my head at the suspicion there.
pedit: pooky already voted, so this was a waste of my time smh.
In post 7214, Lukewarm wrote:I am not going to pretend that I am convinced she is scum.
But, I also don't think that she is a lock town.
And I think killing a null-ish slot is better then killing no one.
Hope that helps you pooky.
This makes sense.
Spiritual vote on Taly.
I will see where things stand after my nap to give Ceph people a chance to provide a case.
In post 7309, RCEnigma wrote:If you DO NOT think ceph is scum, vote Taly.
If you DO NOT think Taly is scum, vote Ceph.
What if you think neither scum? Yeah I would 100% vote Ceph > Taly but the more sensible option is to no lim.
I’ve already said I don’t think either are scum. You don’t want to vote Taly because you townread them and I’m on the other end. But I’m averse to a no elim just to save 1 person in my maybe town pool.
WHY are you averse to abstaining in order to save a maybe-town? Cephrir is a maybe-town for me but I'm still voting to abstain because I think either elimination is bad. Voting Taly is giving the bad players what they want, and voting Cephrir is just punishing him for being weak-willed.
~GE
Because you are valuing the life of potential town over information for the town. Taly flipping town says to me, DP pretty much conf-town. I can focus on the slots that tipped the scales between Taly being glaciated or Johnny being gladiated. And if some info came out about Johnny then it slims that pool down no? Plus whatever other info comes out from invests etc.
Then I can look at who was pushing Taly before all the gladiate stuff and why, etc etc.
But if we no lim I’m still no closer to knowing if Taly is town or not, I don’t know if the slots that pushed the gladiate target over are town or not because I don’t know if Taly is or not. And so on.
Does that make sense?
Not really.
This entire argument can be replaced with Ceph instead and pick a different lock town player
Ok, then replace every Taly with Ceph.
I did as I read? It makes your paragraph meaningless
There’s nothing here.
Ceph is more town because post ABCD
Taly is scummy for post EFGH
Those are reasons unique to them
You’re arguing an information elim not that Taly is actually scummier than Ceph
In other words you didn’t answer the question asked
This is correct, and I fail to see how it’s being pedantic.
~GE
Because the argument isn’t that I’m choosing one over the other because I think 1 is scummy and 1 is not. So fine, change Taly to Ceph and it also gives info. Not the same information and not info that I think is relevant to the slots that I want to pursue but yes it also gives info and I would not cry if it ended up being ceph over Taly.
We are having very very very useless conversations over an either/or scenario.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:34 am
by Lukewarm
In post 7388, MathBlade wrote:I asked the latter question consistently, I am assuming RCE’s premise is true then why Taly
Sure, but he was responding to Gamma not to you.
So, I don't understand why you would expect that post to be an answer to your question.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:36 am
by Taly
i am tired.
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:37 am
by Off The Hook
In post 7366, RCEnigma wrote:
Their recent posting is good but it’s under duress. If their earlier posting left an impact on me I would probably be voting ceph here? But I can’t be sure on that. Just from the games that I’ve played with Taly I’ve never had an unsure feeling toward them, it was always a very definitive read one way or the other but I haven’t played with scum!Taly so my hesitance to put a hard read down is what is leaving that possibility in my head.
I suggest you read her ISO back then. I think when filtered to remove the background noise of the rest of the game her towniness shines. There’s a weaker spot once she starts talking about the high activity causing problems but that feels like the exception rather than the norm.
~GE
Posted: Thu Jul 14, 2022 10:37 am
by RCEnigma
Likewise. I was joking about the VLA till day 2 thing, but I’m going to step away from this game for a couple days.
Sorry about the situation Taly, however it turns out.
In post 7366, RCEnigma wrote:
Their recent posting is good but it’s under duress. If their earlier posting left an impact on me I would probably be voting ceph here? But I can’t be sure on that. Just from the games that I’ve played with Taly I’ve never had an unsure feeling toward them, it was always a very definitive read one way or the other but I haven’t played with scum!Taly so my hesitance to put a hard read down is what is leaving that possibility in my head.
I suggest you read her ISO back then. I think when filtered to remove the background noise of the rest of the game her towniness shines. There’s a weaker spot once she starts talking about the high activity causing problems but that feels like the exception rather than the norm.
~GE
I’ll do so but I doubt it trumps the fact that Ceph was actively going against the slots that I feel most strongly contain scum. However agenda driven that may be or seem.
